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Post by jimbonda on May 20, 2011 21:25:22 GMT
"Macho Man" Randy Savage R.I.P.
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Post by tommyred on May 20, 2011 21:28:56 GMT
HOF next year for sure.
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Post by Tatty on May 20, 2011 22:21:51 GMT
I wouldn't be so sure. The Poffo's have a chilly at best relationship with Vince. Saying that, it's a travesty he's not in it already.
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Post by Bestie on May 20, 2011 22:44:49 GMT
I wouldn't be so sure. The Poffo's have a chilly at best relationship with Vince. Saying that, it's a travesty he's not in it already.That.
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Post by tommyred on May 21, 2011 18:42:59 GMT
Yeah but his death changes everything. He'll definitely be inducted now.
The only question is whether they'll do it next year, as I'm fairly sure Rock was scheduled to go in next year the night before his match with Cena.
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Post by Bestie on May 21, 2011 22:11:12 GMT
Yeah but his death changes everything. He'll definitely be inducted now. The only question is whether they'll do it next year, as I'm fairly sure Rock was scheduled to go in next year the night before his match with Cena. Hopefully so. There is a theme of greats dying and WWE HoF inductions. I always kind of feel it's a shame it takes a legend dying to sort out what needs to be sorted out to get their name in there. As for The Rock going in next year, would they really do it the night before his match with Cena? I mean, it's hardly fair for Rocky to have to carry two occasions on two consecutive nights. . .
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Post by tommyred on May 22, 2011 12:48:42 GMT
Yeah but his death changes everything. He'll definitely be inducted now. The only question is whether they'll do it next year, as I'm fairly sure Rock was scheduled to go in next year the night before his match with Cena. Hopefully so. There is a theme of greats dying and WWE HoF inductions. I always kind of feel it's a shame it takes a legend dying to sort out what needs to be sorted out to get their name in there. As for The Rock going in next year, would they really do it the night before his match with Cena? I mean, it's hardly fair for Rocky to have to carry two occasions on two consecutive nights. . . Haha. Cena and Rock are probably very similar in terms of ability, and Rock's been out of the ring for 7 years, so Cena will be carrying that if anybody. I think both guys are talented enough to pull their weight and produce a great match though. They're both great entertainers.
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Post by tommyred on May 22, 2011 12:49:46 GMT
Also I totally agree about legends having to die to get in the HOF, but sometimes it takes someones death to make you realise that petty squabbles are pointless in the greater scheme of things.
And I think Eddie Guerrero would have gone in anyway, just not so soon.
Owen Hart still isn't in of course.
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Post by jimbonda on May 22, 2011 12:53:30 GMT
i think the reason owen hasn't been inducted is because his wife hasn't wanted it
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Post by Tatty on May 22, 2011 18:50:55 GMT
Yeah but his death changes everything. He'll definitely be inducted now. The only question is whether they'll do it next year, as I'm fairly sure Rock was scheduled to go in next year the night before his match with Cena. Chyna was due to be inducted next year, then she turned up in TNA...
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Post by tommyred on May 23, 2011 13:48:35 GMT
i think the reason owen hasn't been inducted is because his wife hasn't wanted it I know. Not sure why though. His wife seems to want people to forget he ever wrestled, even though wrestling was his passion. Doesn't seem like something Owen would want.
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Post by jimbonda on May 23, 2011 17:43:16 GMT
think it's cos she holds vinnie mac and WWE responsible for what happened. it was a terrible accident there's no question but you can understand the feelings of a widow who never 'got' or appreciated pro-wrestling from what i gather and lost her husband to it. when you read Brets book you realise his mother hated the business despite his dad Stu and the rest of the Hart boys involvement
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Post by Bestie on May 24, 2011 23:56:52 GMT
Haha. Cena and Rock are probably very similar in terms of ability, and Rock's been out of the ring for 7 years, so Cena will be carrying that if anybody. I think both guys are talented enough to pull their weight and produce a great match though. They're both great entertainers. Okay, I wanted to let this one pass. I tried to ignore it, but, it is simply unacceptable. The Rock is hugely more talented than Cena. He has better mic skills, and in the ring he was technically fantastic. You never knew if The Rock was getting beaten or if he was going to turn it around. He could tell a story. Cena's a hack, his moveset is like a short play CD - limited and exactly the same everytime. I know that all the true greats have had a recognisable 'turning point' or set of moves, but Cena ain't one of the greats and his matches are so predictable. It's just stale, has been for years. Pretty much every big time match Cena's in, he wins. Part of it's the writing, but he should be decent enough to make it work and Cena just makes it look shit. Really, one major issue is that The Rock got beat up, like proper, full-on taken apart. Austin could do it, Hogan did it, Michaels was great at it. HHH makes getting pummelled look like he's been hit by a freight train. Just as a few examples of greatness. On the other end of the spectrum, you get Cena. I've seen him take a decent beating once, when the orignal Nexus angle opened. Cena can't sell, even when he's down in matches he can't sell and it just doesn't look right. That's why I said Hogan was allowed to bleed, that's what I meant. I'm begging you, don't say that John Cena is anywhere close to the talent of The Rock ever again. It's so blatently obvious he's not.
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Post by jimbonda on May 25, 2011 8:04:40 GMT
he's not on the rocks level as a perfomer, and i would not personally join in with the women and kids and go nuts for cena but i've gotta stick up for him on a couple of points here
you do not need an extensive large set of moves to be a good wrestler/worker. working is what you do between the moves, selling, listening to the crowd and thinking about what to do next. if you have the match planned move-for-move bell-to-bell then you're a performer and you're not working. cena has a big enough repetoire of moves and he can work
he can sell. if he couldn't sell then he'd get no reaction when he makes his big comeback. this is why cena is good. he can sell and make a firey comeback and that's all he has to do. thats whats Hogan did, Austin did, watch some early Jim Duggan matches pre-WWF and watch the reactions he used to get. and cena gets a reaction, some cheers and some boos, but the booing is fun, the guys love to hate him and thats fine, no reaction or silence would be a different story
people that bash WWE are right to bash WWE, i'm one of them, but cena is just the fall guy for bad writing and a lack of stars. the two biggest problems in the industry
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Post by Bestie on May 25, 2011 9:36:59 GMT
he's not on the rocks level as a perfomer, and i would not personally join in with the women and kids and go nuts for cena but i've gotta stick up for him on a couple of points here you do not need an extensive large set of moves to be a good wrestler/worker. working is what you do between the moves, selling, listening to the crowd and thinking about what to do next. if you have the match planned move-for-move bell-to-bell then you're a performer and you're not working. cena has a big enough repetoire of moves and he can work he can sell. if he couldn't sell then he'd get no reaction when he makes his big comeback. this is why cena is good. he can sell and make a firey comeback and that's all he has to do. thats whats Hogan did, Austin did, watch some early Jim Duggan matches pre-WWF and watch the reactions he used to get. and cena gets a reaction, some cheers and some boos, but the booing is fun, the guys love to hate him and thats fine, no reaction or silence would be a different story people that bash WWE are right to bash WWE, i'm one of them, but cena is just the fall guy for bad writing and a lack of stars. the two biggest problems in the industry Right out the gate I want to make it clear the problem in WWE is not simply Cena, but the WWE itself. McMahon has taken his dad's dream and bastardised it to such an extent that it's basically unrecognisable to the original product. I'm not entirely against that, as history has proven it can work. The theatricality and showmanship of, for example, Attitude era and before that 'Mania breakthrough era made it look good. Some of the writing during those periods was at an unbelievably high level, and creatively pro-wrestling in general was brilliant. Now, I totally agree about the writing and lack of breakout superstars. There a maybe a handful of guys (new blood, not the standard bearers like Kane etc.) on the roster that you could argue would genuinely not look out of place in the headiest days of Rock/Austin/Hogan in terms of superstardom or equal the likes of Steamboat vs. Savage or Hall (Razor Ramon, obv.) vs. Michaels in terms of match style. My issue with Cena is that he represents the shit product WWE has become. I think it's most likely down a lack of decent competition, but that's no reason for Cena to be as poor as he is. There are talented guys in the lockerroom who if given a chance could really be special, yet everytime the title comes up for grabs, Cena wins. Like I said before, it's predictable and stale. Even when they only had one World Heavyweight title, it never seemed as predictable as it is today. Cena's the flagship poster boy, so it's clear he'll get pushed. Except he's boring. The fact that he gets boos at all when making the 'big comeback' goes to show how many people can recognise how poor he is. But that's not even my point. You argue he can sell the comeback, fine. Looking a hero in the face of adversity is the easiest thing to do in the ring. Taking a pummelling and making people actually believe you're getting pummelled to the point of defeat is the hard part. Cena can't do that. As I said, when The Rock took a beating, you didn't know if it was going to be one of those times he would kick out at 2, or get beaten. With Cena, you're always expecting the kick out. Followed by, invariably: shoulder block, spinning backdrop, 5 knuckle shuffle, F-U/Attitude thing. WITHOUT FAIL. Maybe swap in an STF(U) once in a while. And his execution is poor on the really basic stuff. Look at, what is essentially, a fist drop, and he can't make it look real. Ideal example really. I don't believe you need a whole back catalogue of moves to be good. I just think you have to do the stuff you do have, right. Cena should turn heel. Most grown-ups hate him anyway, it might help if he rolled with it. Look at Hollywood Hogan and the reaction when that gimmick came back round to the yellow and red. Plus, 'E have been lacking a really top level heel for ages, Orton has become an Austin-ish heel/face, and Del Rio is raw, forgive the pun. Cena could do that I think. It would prove either way if it's just the writing shoving him down our throats as a walking talking legend that makes him look bad, or if he really can't sell losing and getting beat up on the big occasions.
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