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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 23:45:49 GMT
Shaw just seems to be the type to need an arm round him more than criticism. He's always seemed a bit sensitive. If that doesn't fit with us atm then so be it but it seems a bit typical of Jose's handling of youth. |
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Post by grandpaTJ on Apr 3, 2017 4:27:21 GMT
Shaw just seems to be the type to need an arm round him more than criticism. He's always seemed a bit sensitive. If that doesn't fit with us atm then so be it but it seems a bit typical of Jose's handling of youth.
Agree, Jose does not seem to be the arm around the shoulder type. He has always come into situations where expectations were high. I think he evaluates players and expects them to play to the best of their ability. He has missed with more than one young player, but seems to focus on results for entire team. He has changed, and IMO for the better , since coming to United, I think he is the right guy for the job. I think he is making a mistake with Shaw, but I hope that he already has someone in mind to replace him come summertime. I am not sure what he is going to do this summer, I just believe that he is building to his own ideas, and he is a winner. I'm all for patience. I want to see Shaw succeed, but I think it is going to be up to him to prove something, Jose is looking one direction and if he has Shaw in the tail-lights, Luke is going to have to work his ass off to stick around. I hope he does it. Long run, I will back Jose and what he is looking to accomplish, even if I do not agree with all of it, I expect him to surprise me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 5:30:10 GMT
Shaw just seems to be the type to need an arm round him more than criticism. He's always seemed a bit sensitive. If that doesn't fit with us atm then so be it but it seems a bit typical of Jose's handling of youth.
Agree, Jose does not seem to be the arm around the shoulder type. He has always come into situations where expectations were high. I think he evaluates players and expects them to play to the best of their ability. He has missed with more than one young player, but seems to focus on results for entire team. He has changed, and IMO for the better , since coming to United, I think he is the right guy for the job. I think he is making a mistake with Shaw, but I hope that he already has someone in mind to replace him come summertime. I am not sure what he is going to do this summer, I just believe that he is building to his own ideas, and he is a winner. I'm all for patience. I want to see Shaw succeed, but I think it is going to be up to him to prove something, Jose is looking one direction and if he has Shaw in the tail-lights, Luke is going to have to work his ass off to stick around. I hope he does it. Long run, I will back Jose and what he is looking to accomplish, even if I do not agree with all of it, I expect him to surprise me. We want Jose to be ruthless so we knew some players were going to get cut. I think everyone will get on board with this but at the same time I'm not going to shit on Shaw either. He's had a bit of a torrid time. He hired a fitness trainer to get back in LVG's good books & succeeded by having a really good period before getting his leg destroyed. He's been instantly held up to the highest standard & imo is better than our other left back options. I think he can have another season without harming the squad. |
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Post by mightyez on Apr 3, 2017 6:05:11 GMT
whilst the player probably needs to grow up as he is not a teenager or a child anymore, i'm not in support of the manager coming out like that, it simply doesn't help anyone.
the player suffers, manager suffers, squad suffers pure and simple, it's just not what we need out there.
if he is not up to standards then make not comment and sell in the summer or better yet rise to the challenge of unlocking the vast potential he has, best left back in the country for me and he will go elsewhere and show that.
if this was a 29 year old player then i'd be all for selling, he isn't he is 21 and the other options are darn expensive and pretty underwhelming unless your last name is Alaba.
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Post by juanveron on Apr 3, 2017 6:21:39 GMT
For me it's no coincidence that none of our promising young players are doing well under Jose. Yes, he's a very good manager, but he has such a horrible track record of disposing of incredibly talented youngsters.
Memphis? Hardly given a chance and wasn't at his best - shipped out. TFM? Played like 3.5 minutes of football this season. Rashford? Pushed to the wing because Zlatan is undroppable or unsubbable. Martial? A ghost of the player he was last season, zero confidence and composure (the two things we were all so in awe of last season). And finally, Shaw. If Luke Shaw is going to be shipped out because Jose is incapable of making him a proper player again then, for me, that is going to go down in the books as a KDB-esque fuck up by Jose.
Just gotta stick it out with these players, they all had demonstrated brilliance before - it's there, simply giving up on them is poor management.
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Post by redcase on Apr 3, 2017 6:23:43 GMT
He's on 70 grand a week. I wonder if earning that much money so early on in your life devalues the work and effort you need to put in to be actually worthy of that money. Either way , I'm a huge fan of his, but SET is on the money. He needs to get that thick brother of his out if his ear, same goes for his "mates".
Shut the door and WORK. Mourinho isn't an idiot. He sees the potential, but potential without desire is as useful as a car without fuel.
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Post by Stew on Apr 3, 2017 7:21:17 GMT
He's on 70 grand a week. I wonder if earning that much money so early on in your life devalues the work and effort you need to put in to be actually worthy of that money. Either way , I'm a huge fan of his, but SET is on the money. He needs to get that thick brother of his out if his ear, same goes for his "mates". Shut the door and WORK. Mourinho isn't an idiot. He sees the potential, but potential without desire is as useful as a car without fuel. I was listening to a podcast about the NFL draft the other day. A couple of guys are great players but have red flags when it comes to character. A former GM said he'd never go near one of them. When pushed he said if a college player has work ethic issues or doesn't love the game, then the worst thing that can happen to them is to sign a multi-million dollar contract with a pro team. |
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Post by Stew on Apr 3, 2017 7:23:19 GMT
For me it's no coincidence that none of our promising young players are doing well under Jose. Yes, he's a very good manager, but he has such a horrible track record of disposing of incredibly talented youngsters. Memphis? Hardly given a chance and wasn't at his best - shipped out. TFM? Played like 3.5 minutes of football this season. Rashford? Pushed to the wing because Zlatan is undroppable or unsubbable. Martial? A ghost of the player he was last season, zero confidence and composure (the two things we were all so in awe of last season). And finally, Shaw. If Luke Shaw is going to be shipped out because Jose is incapable of making him a proper player again then, for me, that is going to go down in the books as a KDB-esque fuck up by Jose. Just gotta stick it out with these players, they all had demonstrated brilliance before - it's there, simply giving up on them is poor management. The only one being given up on (seemingly) is Shaw. |
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Post by grandpaTJ on Apr 3, 2017 8:45:12 GMT
For me it's no coincidence that none of our promising young players are doing well under Jose. Yes, he's a very good manager, but he has such a horrible track record of disposing of incredibly talented youngsters. Memphis? Hardly given a chance and wasn't at his best - shipped out. TFM? Played like 3.5 minutes of football this season. Rashford? Pushed to the wing because Zlatan is undroppable or unsubbable. Martial? A ghost of the player he was last season, zero confidence and composure (the two things we were all so in awe of last season). And finally, Shaw. If Luke Shaw is going to be shipped out because Jose is incapable of making him a proper player again then, for me, that is going to go down in the books as a KDB-esque fuck up by Jose. Just gotta stick it out with these players, they all had demonstrated brilliance before - it's there, simply giving up on them is poor management. The only one being given up on (seemingly) is Shaw. I hope that is not the case, but I believe that you are right, Jose seems to sometimes wear blinders, and heads for one goal, and doesn't look past that for very long. I think Luke has the qualities to be a great player and deserves some time to come good, with a manager that believes in him. I hope that this is a "push" to get Luke on track, and not a sign the train has already departed. Right now it seems like 1 step forward 2 back where Luke is concerned. Right now, seems like his overall record outweighs the youth players he missed. Also considering the overall quality of the clubs, I suppose any player getting sent out could well be a year or so away from becoming a WC type player. The pressure was trophies, perhaps that is a big part of that record as well? I hate this for Luke, and I hope this is one of those times the press has blown something out of proportion, they not only get it wrong, seems the press often gets it spectacularly, sometimes damaging in how far the speculation gets carried. Hoping it will sort it self out for the better. Jose's attitude?? "Just let it go, us against the world, even the fans missing what is happening here" mentality ?? I think that a lot of people lost money when they underestimated Jose. Hopefully no one is being given up on, but who knows, Jose is not terribly impressed by, or forthcoming to, the press. |
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Post by mightyez on Apr 3, 2017 8:45:13 GMT
He's on 70 grand a week. I wonder if earning that much money so early on in your life devalues the work and effort you need to put in to be actually worthy of that money. Either way , I'm a huge fan of his, but SET is on the money. He needs to get that thick brother of his out if his ear, same goes for his "mates". Shut the door and WORK. Mourinho isn't an idiot. He sees the potential, but potential without desire is as useful as a car without fuel. I was listening to a podcast about the NFL draft the other day. A couple of guys are great players but have red flags when it comes to character. A former GM said he'd never go near one of them. When pushed he said if a college player has work ethic issues or doesn't love the game, then the worst thing that can happen to them is to sign a multi-million dollar contract with a pro team. I am one who firmly believes talent without the hardwork is just not gonna get you too far. messi and Ronaldo mesmerize but they also put in a shift in training and in games. Morrison could ghost past players like they didn't exist, he would embarrass full fledge internationals in training but had no application to hardwork and as such didn't get anywhere. those are 2 extremes but I use them to emphasise the importance of combining both elements. Shaw it would seem has one at present, but I just think once you call him out in the press, once and get no real result, call him out twice and get no result why bother the third time, it clearly isn't working! if anything you just seem abit vindictive now. if he isn't doing what you want no probs, try not to hurt his value too much and sell in the summer. |
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Post by grandpaTJ on Apr 3, 2017 9:03:42 GMT
I was listening to a podcast about the NFL draft the other day. A couple of guys are great players but have red flags when it comes to character. A former GM said he'd never go near one of them. When pushed he said if a college player has work ethic issues or doesn't love the game, then the worst thing that can happen to them is to sign a multi-million dollar contract with a pro team. I am one who firmly believes talent without the hardwork is just not gonna get you too far. messi and Ronaldo mesmerize but they also put in a shift in training and in games. Morrison could ghost past players like they didn't exist, he would embarrass full fledge internationals in training but had no application to hardwork and as such didn't get anywhere. those are 2 extremes but I use them to emphasise the importance of combining both elements. Shaw it would seem has one at present, but I just think once you call him out in the press, once and get no real result, call him out twice and get no result why bother the third time, it clearly isn't working! if anything you just seem abit vindictive now. if he isn't doing what you want no probs, try not to hurt his value too much and sell in the summer.That about the value makes me wonder what exactly is going on. I hate hearing a player called out in the press, but perhaps Jose is "last chance(ing)" him to let him know how it is? I hope he gives Luke a chance to come back into training after the break and sh ow him he was serious about what was happening. Hell, he got busted up, his good friend on the club got sold, lot to heap on a young player. Hope there is more to it than is being reported, and it is better news. Younger players like Rash and Tony, seems to me a lot of the good ones have tough second years. Coming in the way they did, they caught players by surprise. You can practice for them, but their speed and quality isn't going to be prepared for seeing them in "RL". Second year, they get whacked around a whole lot more, and they either adjust or not. Watching them both play, they will be just fine, they are adjusting IMO. Would like to see Luke get a reset to start of year before he got hurt and have a chance to have a run of matches. Might be with the Europa becoming the one thing, Jose has lost too much faith? It isn't helping his value though, just not sure what is up. |
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Post by karthy on Apr 3, 2017 9:14:06 GMT
With players like Tony V, Carrick, ZLat, Pogba ,Shaw doesn't see the val;ue of fitness or training or puttingin a shift, then its not good. But that said i think Jose's approach need to change as well towards Shaw. They guy could play and showed he could. Tony V took time to come back from injury hell, feel Jose could change his approach here, if not fine ,let it go and move on, don't appear to belittle the player-it don't do good to anyone
I hope for Us,Shaw sake the guy bucks up, throws the shits from around him and gets down to business
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Post by Tatty on Apr 3, 2017 10:01:23 GMT
When 4 managers, well respected ones at that, maybe the problem isn't the managers, and more likely the kid being a brat.
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Post by mightyez on Apr 3, 2017 10:02:41 GMT
I am one who firmly believes talent without the hardwork is just not gonna get you too far. messi and Ronaldo mesmerize but they also put in a shift in training and in games. Morrison could ghost past players like they didn't exist, he would embarrass full fledge internationals in training but had no application to hardwork and as such didn't get anywhere. those are 2 extremes but I use them to emphasise the importance of combining both elements. Shaw it would seem has one at present, but I just think once you call him out in the press, once and get no real result, call him out twice and get no result why bother the third time, it clearly isn't working! if anything you just seem abit vindictive now. if he isn't doing what you want no probs, try not to hurt his value too much and sell in the summer.That about the value makes me wonder what exactly is going on. I hate hearing a player called out in the press, but perhaps Jose is "last chance(ing)" him to let him know how it is? I hope he gives Luke a chance to come back into training after the break and sh ow him he was serious about what was happening. Hell, he got busted up, his good friend on the club got sold, lot to heap on a young player. Hope there is more to it than is being reported, and it is better news. Younger players like Rash and Tony, seems to me a lot of the good ones have tough second years. Coming in the way they did, they caught players by surprise. You can practice for them, but their speed and quality isn't going to be prepared for seeing them in "RL". Second year, they get whacked around a whole lot more, and they either adjust or not. Watching them both play, they will be just fine, they are adjusting IMO. Would like to see Luke get a reset to start of year before he got hurt and have a chance to have a run of matches. Might be with the Europa becoming the one thing, Jose has lost too much faith? It isn't helping his value though, just not sure what is up. i'll be honest our saving grace on his value is he is young, he had a back injury, he is English and put simply he will perform for whoever buys him. doubt we will get out money back but I certainly would want 20 million minimum. |
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Post by mightyez on Apr 3, 2017 10:04:13 GMT
When 4 managers, well respected ones at that, maybe the problem isn't the managers, and more likely the kid being a brat. don't think anyone doubts the lad has an issue but we all recognise there is a player and would rather we see that player come out and perform and the managers regardless of how respected they are just deal with is behind closed doors in the training ground, office and boardroom rather than speak to the press who he doesn't owe a response to. it is having no positive effect so why continue with it |
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