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Post by alwaysUnited on Mar 23, 2021 9:51:16 GMT
Martial is such a frustrating player , he always seems to be on the cusp of taking the next big step and then just falls apart for various reasons.
I think biggest worry with him is that we have done the hard part , persisted with him for all these years, and now he has just entered what will be his prime if we sell him and he becomes a superstar somewhere else. But his best position like Rashford is on the left , he is no no.9 where he is isolated most time.
He has pace and can dribble, so let him run at players from wide.
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Post by redcase on Mar 23, 2021 9:52:34 GMT
Martial’s been shite this season, but questioning the signing of him is madness. There’s a combination of things with Martial. He’s not been managed the best really. He was having an exceptional season playing from the left a few years back and then we went and bought Sanchez and José flung Martial out on the right before binning him completely. His good performances in the first half of that season seemed to irk José who clearly didn’t fancy him from the word go. He’s probably been a victim of poor recruitment too, in that he’s been our only option through the middle for long periods of time. He’s still been overplayed this season, but not having enough top level backup hasn’t helped. The other thing is Martial himself. He gets in his own way. I’m not really one for moaning that he doesn’t run around loads and all that, because we’ve had brilliant forwards who never did anything like that. But there’s no denying he’s looked disinterested this season, even by his own laid back standards. The thing is, if we sold him this summer, you wouldn’t bet against him going on to have a brilliant career somewhere else. And that’s a mark of the level of talent he has. Name one footballer with talent but fuckall application who has succeeded in football. Martial is exactly that. Talent but absolutely shite when it comes to character. He's on fucking 250 grand a week so why does he even need to apply himself? Who hands out such dumb as shit contracts? What did he ever in his career do to deserve it? He should have been fucked off when Jose wanted him gone. Ole came in, coddled him for a year and got acceptable results, and now he's reverted to type.
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Post by redcase on Mar 23, 2021 9:56:52 GMT
Part of being a very good player is being consistent, he`s never been that ever. Part of being good is also being good. Which Martial is. I'm going to use some hyperbole, but it's no use being good 1 game out of 6. Would you drive a car which breaks down once every 3 months? Every shit player has that frequency of good games - that's the definition of mediocre. Martial has been mediocre for 3 years now. I have never seen too many suitors for him. If he's that talented how come barely anybody comes asking for him? That's how I've gauged top level footballers for all the time that I've been watching football - who else wants them? Who else would pay Martial 250k a week? I doubt anybody does. Going to be 26 this year, how much longer does he need to "develop". Being good, means being reliable. Which Martial is not.
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Post by Karma on Mar 23, 2021 10:24:23 GMT
We should have dumped him for Perisic when we could.
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Post by Stew on Mar 23, 2021 11:01:22 GMT
Since New Years Day, 18 appearances. 2 goals, both coming in the 9-0 Southampton demolition of Southampton (the all important 5th and 8th strikes mind you). Exhilarating stuff. He`s supposed to be a striker, what manager would keep picking a so called striker that cant score? Who thought he was worth £50M? ok he looked good at first when we first bought him even though never really consistent but now he`s just crap. I dont mind admitting I`d never heard of him when he first came but that might be because he wasn't that good in the first place. He won the Golden Boy award a couple of months after he arrived. Regardless of whether or not you’d heard of him, he was already considered a serious talent. And while it may not be foolproof, that award is normally a very good indication of a youngsters ability. Ability which may never translate into application in Martial’s case.
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Post by Bestie on Mar 23, 2021 11:23:20 GMT
Part of being good is also being good. Which Martial is. I'm going to use some hyperbole, but it's no use being good 1 game out of 6. Would you drive a car which breaks down once every 3 months? Every shit player has that frequency of good games - that's the definition of mediocre. Martial has been mediocre for 3 years now. I have never seen too many suitors for him. If he's that talented how come barely anybody comes asking for him? That's how I've gauged top level footballers for all the time that I've been watching football - who else wants them? Who else would pay Martial 250k a week? I doubt anybody does. Going to be 26 this year, how much longer does he need to "develop". Being good, means being reliable. Which Martial is not. No, being good means being good. As Stew has said, application of talent is a different thing.
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Post by keanosdog16 on Mar 23, 2021 11:25:23 GMT
Martial’s been shite this season, but questioning the signing of him is madness. There’s a combination of things with Martial. He’s not been managed the best really. He was having an exceptional season playing from the left a few years back and then we went and bought Sanchez and José flung Martial out on the right before binning him completely. His good performances in the first half of that season seemed to irk José who clearly didn’t fancy him from the word go. He’s probably been a victim of poor recruitment too, in that he’s been our only option through the middle for long periods of time. He’s still been overplayed this season, but not having enough top level backup hasn’t helped. The other thing is Martial himself. He gets in his own way. I’m not really one for moaning that he doesn’t run around loads and all that, because we’ve had brilliant forwards who never did anything like that. But there’s no denying he’s looked disinterested this season, even by his own laid back standards. The thing is, if we sold him this summer, you wouldn’t bet against him going on to have a brilliant career somewhere else. And that’s a mark of the level of talent he has. So what if he goes and does it for someone else, he doesn't do it for us and that's all i care about but even so i very much doubt he will do it for someone else, maybe in Ligue 1 he'll stand out. so would you cling on to him for how many more years in the hope he comes good? And ref his not running loads, defending starts from the front, he'll give you a token trot between defenders but that's it, no assertiveness or aggression about him and as for movement to get in behind he simply doesn't move, gives fuck all option in behind, constantly loses the ball when he shows short as centre after centre half take it off him far too easily. He needs to go end of.
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Post by Bestie on Mar 23, 2021 11:27:06 GMT
Martial’s been shite this season, but questioning the signing of him is madness. There’s a combination of things with Martial. He’s not been managed the best really. He was having an exceptional season playing from the left a few years back and then we went and bought Sanchez and José flung Martial out on the right before binning him completely. His good performances in the first half of that season seemed to irk José who clearly didn’t fancy him from the word go. He’s probably been a victim of poor recruitment too, in that he’s been our only option through the middle for long periods of time. He’s still been overplayed this season, but not having enough top level backup hasn’t helped. The other thing is Martial himself. He gets in his own way. I’m not really one for moaning that he doesn’t run around loads and all that, because we’ve had brilliant forwards who never did anything like that. But there’s no denying he’s looked disinterested this season, even by his own laid back standards. The thing is, if we sold him this summer, you wouldn’t bet against him going on to have a brilliant career somewhere else. And that’s a mark of the level of talent he has. So what if he goes and does it for someone else, he doesn't do it for us and that's all i care about but even so i very much doubt he will do it for someone else, maybe in Ligue 1 he'll stand out. so would you cling on to him for how many more years in the hope he comes good? And ref his not running loads, defending starts from the front, he'll give you a token trot between defenders but that's it, no assertiveness or aggression about him and as for movement to get in behind he simply doesn't move, gives fuck all option in behind, constantly loses the ball when he shows short as centre after centre half take it off him far too easily. He needs to go end of. Not end of. People disagree with you.
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Post by Bestie on Mar 23, 2021 11:28:04 GMT
He`s supposed to be a striker, what manager would keep picking a so called striker that cant score? Who thought he was worth £50M? ok he looked good at first when we first bought him even though never really consistent but now he`s just crap. I dont mind admitting I`d never heard of him when he first came but that might be because he wasn't that good in the first place. He won the Golden Boy award a couple of months after he arrived. Regardless of whether or not you’d heard of him, he was already considered a serious talent. And while it may not be foolproof, that award is normally a very good indication of a youngsters ability. Ability which may never translate into application in Martial’s case. I had never heard of Javier Hernandez before we signed him. He must have been rubbish.
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Post by keanosdog16 on Mar 23, 2021 11:30:18 GMT
Martial is such a frustrating player , he always seems to be on the cusp of taking the next big step and then just falls apart for various reasons. I think biggest worry with him is that we have done the hard part , persisted with him for all these years, and now he has just entered what will be his prime if we sell him and he becomes a superstar somewhere else. But his best position like Rashford is on the left , he is no no.9 where he is isolated most time. He has pace and can dribble, so let him run at players from wide. This kind of thing is exactly why we are where we are, clinging on to players in the hope that they come good, how long do you wait for him to come good, this fear of not letting someone go in case he does it elsewhere has to stop, it's part of what's holding us back.
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Post by viking22 on Mar 23, 2021 12:00:36 GMT
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Post by Kojak on Mar 23, 2021 13:01:51 GMT
I never even said we should keep Martial by the way. I only stated he’s a talented player, which he is, and that questioning the signing of him is fucking daft, which it is.
Worth noting, he’s had about ten times the number of good games for us that Pogba has by the way. Everyone now seems content to keep Pogba as we don’t trust the club to recruit anyone else of any standard. Sound logic. Why does that not apply to Martial?
Again, just asking the question. Not saying we should keep him, I couldn’t care less.
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Post by Karma on Mar 23, 2021 13:11:05 GMT
Martial is such a frustrating player , he always seems to be on the cusp of taking the next big step and then just falls apart for various reasons. I think biggest worry with him is that we have done the hard part , persisted with him for all these years, and now he has just entered what will be his prime if we sell him and he becomes a superstar somewhere else. But his best position like Rashford is on the left , he is no no.9 where he is isolated most time. He has pace and can dribble, so let him run at players from wide. This kind of thing is exactly why we are where we are, clinging on to players in the hope that they come good, how long do you wait for him to come good, this fear of not letting someone go in case he does it elsewhere has to stop, it's part of what's holding us back. Seems to be a thing associated with the Glazers era. Make do and mend and rebrand it as giving players time. Same thing with managers. Shifting shit seems to be a dirty word now. The Glazers aren’t as thick as we like to think. They’ve worked our fans out for sure. Dissent is seen as being spoilt or not being a true fan. They have infiltrated the club from top to bottom. Meanwhile Gary Neville has no problem sacking managers at Salford but strangely quiet about our declining expectations and standards. Carragher called him out on Twitter just yesterday if anyone saw it.
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Post by redcase on Mar 23, 2021 13:11:43 GMT
I'm going to use some hyperbole, but it's no use being good 1 game out of 6. Would you drive a car which breaks down once every 3 months? Every shit player has that frequency of good games - that's the definition of mediocre. Martial has been mediocre for 3 years now. I have never seen too many suitors for him. If he's that talented how come barely anybody comes asking for him? That's how I've gauged top level footballers for all the time that I've been watching football - who else wants them? Who else would pay Martial 250k a week? I doubt anybody does. Going to be 26 this year, how much longer does he need to "develop". Being good, means being reliable. Which Martial is not. No, being good means being good. As Stew has said, application of talent is a different thing. 100 multiplied by 0 is still 0. They are not mutually exclusive. The reverse is also true. You can run around how much ever you want, if you don't have talent it leads to the same end result - mediocrity. So if one is desperate enough, then they can call Martial good*** *** - when he decides to give a fuck.
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Post by Karma on Mar 23, 2021 13:15:03 GMT
No, being good means being good. As Stew has said, application of talent is a different thing. 100 multiplied by 0 is still 0. They are not mutually exclusive. The reverse is also true. You can run around how much ever you want, if you don't have talent it leads to the same end result - mediocrity. So if one is desperate enough, then they can call Martial good*** *** - when he decides to give a fuck. That sounds like another player we have who came from Swansea. He puts effort in but is shit. Two sides of the same coin really.
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