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Post by Rorschach on Nov 18, 2015 10:07:27 GMT
This talk of a ground invasion, it's exactly what ISIL wants. All of this is aimed at alienating Muslims in the west and dragging the west into a war. War and expansion brings legitimacy to their caliphate, if they're not fighting and expanding then they're not legitimate in their eyes.
The British Empire got severely bloodied in the Sudan and Egypt, as well as requiring 3 pretty brutal wars in Afghanistan to gain some semblance of control over the region in 1919, although that soon descended into civil war. The Russians were beaten back in the 70's. The Coalition forces then went back in, as we all know, and look how that went.
Throughout the history of the Middle East there has barely been a period of peace, so many huge empires and kingdoms have conquered, ruled and then lost. The Egyptian and Assyrian empires, Alexander and his successor kingdoms, the Romans and Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Mongols, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the western Crusaders, the Mamluks, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, the British, the Russians and more. All failed to conquer and keep their areas of the Middle East.
ISIL needs dealing with, of course, but a ground invasion is really something we should not be doing. Not to mention the fact one of the glaring things we should be looking at is the funding of these extremist groups. Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are sitting back eating popcorn while money pours from their countries into the pockets of vile cunts like ISIL, Boko Haram and more. Saudi Arabia with its brutal, absolutist monarchy controlling the populace with an iron fist, with practically medieval laws.. all the while their royalty lives it up like hypocrites. Oh no but we can't upset the Saudis because they have oil!
Keep up the drone strikes, the raids and special forces work but we cannot be drawn into sending the full army into that utter shitstorm in Syria and Iraq, it will be a bloodbath. Cut the head off the snake; stop the funding and stop their ability to mobilise.
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Post by Stew on Nov 18, 2015 10:57:38 GMT
4 out of the 5 bombers identified so far are French so the refugee Trojan horse theory is nonsense.
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Post by Stew on Nov 18, 2015 11:00:23 GMT
This talk of a ground invasion, it's exactly what ISIL wants. All of this is aimed at alienating Muslims in the west and dragging the west into a war. War and expansion brings legitimacy to their caliphate, if they're not fighting and expanding then they're not legitimate in their eyes. The British Empire got severely bloodied in the Sudan and Egypt, as well as requiring 3 pretty brutal wars in Afghanistan to gain some semblance of control over the region in 1919, although that soon descended into civil war. The Russians were beaten back in the 70's. The Coalition forces then went back in, as we all know, and look how that went. Throughout the history of the Middle East there has barely been a period of peace, so many huge empires and kingdoms have conquered, ruled and then lost. The Egyptian and Assyrian empires, Alexander and his successor kingdoms, the Romans and Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Mongols, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the western Crusaders, the Mamluks, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, the British, the Russians and more. All failed to conquer and keep their areas of the Middle East. ISIL needs dealing with, of course, but a ground invasion is really something we should not be doing. Not to mention the fact one of the glaring things we should be looking at is the funding of these extremist groups. Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are sitting back eating popcorn while money pours from their countries into the pockets of vile cunts like ISIL, Boko Haram and more. Saudi Arabia with its brutal, absolutist monarchy controlling the populace with an iron fist, with practically medieval laws.. all the while their royalty lives it up like hypocrites. Oh no but we can't upset the Saudis because they have oil! Keep up the drone strikes, the raids and special forces work but we cannot be drawn into sending the full army into that utter shitstorm in Syria and Iraq, it will be a bloodbath. Cut the head off the snake; stop the funding and stop their ability to mobilise. The coalition did perfectly well in Afganistan unless W decided to prove to his Daddy his was a big man and diverted huge amounts of troops to an illegal war in Iraq. This allowed the Taliban to regroup when they were virtually finished. The war was as close to being over there as any war is now. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Nov 18, 2015 11:06:00 GMT
*/tinfoil hat on*
The war will never be over man. That's like tellin' Gene Krupa not to go "boom boom bam bam bam, boom boom bam bam bam, boom boom boom bam ba ba ba ba, da boo boo tss!" We don't believe in rules, like, we gave them up when we started livin' like freaky beatniks!
*/tinfoil hat off*
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Post by Bestie on Nov 18, 2015 11:14:20 GMT
This talk of a ground invasion, it's exactly what ISIL wants. All of this is aimed at alienating Muslims in the west and dragging the west into a war. War and expansion brings legitimacy to their caliphate, if they're not fighting and expanding then they're not legitimate in their eyes. The British Empire got severely bloodied in the Sudan and Egypt, as well as requiring 3 pretty brutal wars in Afghanistan to gain some semblance of control over the region in 1919, although that soon descended into civil war. The Russians were beaten back in the 70's. The Coalition forces then went back in, as we all know, and look how that went. Throughout the history of the Middle East there has barely been a period of peace, so many huge empires and kingdoms have conquered, ruled and then lost. The Egyptian and Assyrian empires, Alexander and his successor kingdoms, the Romans and Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Mongols, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the western Crusaders, the Mamluks, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, the British, the Russians and more. All failed to conquer and keep their areas of the Middle East. ISIL needs dealing with, of course, but a ground invasion is really something we should not be doing. Not to mention the fact one of the glaring things we should be looking at is the funding of these extremist groups. Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are sitting back eating popcorn while money pours from their countries into the pockets of vile cunts like ISIL, Boko Haram and more. Saudi Arabia with its brutal, absolutist monarchy controlling the populace with an iron fist, with practically medieval laws.. all the while their royalty lives it up like hypocrites. Oh no but we can't upset the Saudis because they have oil! Keep up the drone strikes, the raids and special forces work but we cannot be drawn into sending the full army into that utter shitstorm in Syria and Iraq, it will be a bloodbath. Cut the head off the snake; stop the funding and stop their ability to mobilise. Exactly. Send the covert forces in to cut the head off the snake. Then rip out the snake's spine. Then grind the flesh and organs into paste. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Nov 18, 2015 11:17:15 GMT
This talk of a ground invasion, it's exactly what ISIL wants. All of this is aimed at alienating Muslims in the west and dragging the west into a war. War and expansion brings legitimacy to their caliphate, if they're not fighting and expanding then they're not legitimate in their eyes. The British Empire got severely bloodied in the Sudan and Egypt, as well as requiring 3 pretty brutal wars in Afghanistan to gain some semblance of control over the region in 1919, although that soon descended into civil war. The Russians were beaten back in the 70's. The Coalition forces then went back in, as we all know, and look how that went. Throughout the history of the Middle East there has barely been a period of peace, so many huge empires and kingdoms have conquered, ruled and then lost. The Egyptian and Assyrian empires, Alexander and his successor kingdoms, the Romans and Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Mongols, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the western Crusaders, the Mamluks, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, the British, the Russians and more. All failed to conquer and keep their areas of the Middle East. ISIL needs dealing with, of course, but a ground invasion is really something we should not be doing. Not to mention the fact one of the glaring things we should be looking at is the funding of these extremist groups. Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are sitting back eating popcorn while money pours from their countries into the pockets of vile cunts like ISIL, Boko Haram and more. Saudi Arabia with its brutal, absolutist monarchy controlling the populace with an iron fist, with practically medieval laws.. all the while their royalty lives it up like hypocrites. Oh no but we can't upset the Saudis because they have oil! Keep up the drone strikes, the raids and special forces work but we cannot be drawn into sending the full army into that utter shitstorm in Syria and Iraq, it will be a bloodbath. Cut the head off the snake; stop the funding and stop their ability to mobilise. Exactly. Send the covert forces in to cut the head off the snake. Then rip out the snake's spine. Then grind the flesh and organs into paste. You were imagining that happening to Rooney when you wrote that weren't you? |
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Post by Bestie on Nov 18, 2015 11:18:43 GMT
Exactly. Send the covert forces in to cut the head off the snake. Then rip out the snake's spine. Then grind the flesh and organs into paste. You were imagining Rooney when you wrote that weren't you? For once, Rooney is not the greatest enemy. I sit watching the footage of Paris and the raids today, the phone videos of explosions and gunfire in the background and all I find myself wanting to do is sign up to the military/MOD/do something or anything to get these bastards. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 12:47:33 GMT
You were imagining Rooney when you wrote that weren't you? For once, Rooney is not the greatest enemy. I sit watching the footage of Paris and the raids today, the phone videos of explosions and gunfire in the background and all I find myself wanting to do is sign up to the military/MOD/do something or anything to get these bastards. I know what you mean Bestie and I'm sure we've all had similar thoughts at some point, but we really need that to be left to special forces and intelligence agencies. As Rustincohle said, we really don't need another massive ground war, particularly with an enemy as globally fragmented as them. They are even discussing the possibility of nuclear strikes on Radio 2 at the moment! The way we will eventually win this war is by simply living our lives the way we did before, and not allow events like this, however tragic they may be, to dictate our future. |
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Post by CaajScot on Nov 18, 2015 13:07:16 GMT
It's very depressing for me listening to the news about this or anything else similar. When I did my tours of duty (army) in NI in the 70's one of our jobs when on a mobile patrol we had to stop at the local mortuary and go inside too do body checks to see if their was any terrorist that had been killed. It would send shivers down my spine when you seen bodies lying there, some without limbs or what not. It was even more depressing seeing young children as young as two years old that had been caught up in a blast or shot because of a certain religion their parents believed in. Innocent ones who would not have a clue at that age what religion was. I had flashbacks up to five years after I left the army, waking up in cold sweats or my wife waking me up because I was crying and yelling in my sleep. I am lucky now as thanks too my wife I have got over it now as the years rolled on. But it's still there in the back of my mind when I read anything to do with this and other terrorist act. What a bloody wicked world we live in.
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Post by swimmityswim on Nov 18, 2015 13:13:39 GMT
as been mentioned a lot of other places, it's very much worth remembering that this relates to approximately 0.003% the population of islam. if this was a "muslim" problem, as you'll no doubt hear from parents/grandparents/right wing media or politicians, we wouldn't have a chance.
have seen very good articles and interviews recently with reza aslan and comedian adam hills.
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Post by Bestie on Nov 18, 2015 13:35:20 GMT
For once, Rooney is not the greatest enemy. I sit watching the footage of Paris and the raids today, the phone videos of explosions and gunfire in the background and all I find myself wanting to do is sign up to the military/MOD/do something or anything to get these bastards. I know what you mean Bestie and I'm sure we've all had similar thoughts at some point, but we really need that to be left to special forces and intelligence agencies. As Rustincohle said, we really don't need another massive ground war, particularly with an enemy as globally fragmented as them. They are even discussing the possibility of nuclear strikes on Radio 2 at the moment! The way we will eventually win this war is by simply living our lives the way we did before, and not allow events like this, however tragic they may be, to dictate our future. I said that already. The US, Britain, Muslim countries, Christian countries, China, Russia, every non fucking extremist country needs to get together and blow ISIL off the face of the planet. Surely, surely we can agree they need to be wiped out. Just for one fucking moment in history stand as a united planet against these bastards. I am sick of this religious war crap. This isn't religion. It isn't about anything but cowardice and hatred and consciousless murder. Send in Mossad with the GRU, SAS, Royal Marines, CIA/NSA and start killing them. No ground troops. No open war. Just hunting and killing every last person associated with ISIL until they are dead. I mean I want to join the special forces. Or MI5/SIS (MI6 in old money). I can't just travel to Syria and join the Kurds to shoot the cowardly fuckers in person although even that is appealing at this point. |
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Post by Tatty on Nov 18, 2015 13:53:24 GMT
It's very depressing for me listening to the news about this or anything else similar. When I did my tours of duty (army) in NI in the 70's one of our jobs when on a mobile patrol we had to stop at the local mortuary and go inside too do body checks to see if their was any terrorist that had been killed. It would send shivers down my spine when you seen bodies lying there, some without limbs or what not. It was even more depressing seeing young children as young as two years old that had been caught up in a blast or shot because of a certain religion their parents believed in. Innocent ones who would not have a clue at that age what religion was. I had flashbacks up to five years after I left the army, waking up in cold sweats or my wife waking me up because I was crying and yelling in my sleep. I am lucky now as thanks too my wife I have got over it now as the years rolled on. But it's still there in the back of my mind when I read anything to do with this and other terrorist act. What a bloody wicked world we live in. That's PTSD. You may think you're over it. But you never will be. |
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Post by . on Nov 18, 2015 16:54:02 GMT
It's very depressing for me listening to the news about this or anything else similar. When I did my tours of duty (army) in NI in the 70's one of our jobs when on a mobile patrol we had to stop at the local mortuary and go inside too do body checks to see if their was any terrorist that had been killed. It would send shivers down my spine when you seen bodies lying there, some without limbs or what not. It was even more depressing seeing young children as young as two years old that had been caught up in a blast or shot because of a certain religion their parents believed in. Innocent ones who would not have a clue at that age what religion was. I had flashbacks up to five years after I left the army, waking up in cold sweats or my wife waking me up because I was crying and yelling in my sleep. I am lucky now as thanks too my wife I have got over it now as the years rolled on. But it's still there in the back of my mind when I read anything to do with this and other terrorist act. What a bloody wicked world we live in. goddamn, that's awful. Sorry you were forced to endure that. |
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United School Boy
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Post by . on Nov 18, 2015 16:57:54 GMT
This talk of a ground invasion, it's exactly what ISIL wants. All of this is aimed at alienating Muslims in the west and dragging the west into a war. War and expansion brings legitimacy to their caliphate, if they're not fighting and expanding then they're not legitimate in their eyes. The British Empire got severely bloodied in the Sudan and Egypt, as well as requiring 3 pretty brutal wars in Afghanistan to gain some semblance of control over the region in 1919, although that soon descended into civil war. The Russians were beaten back in the 70's. The Coalition forces then went back in, as we all know, and look how that went. Throughout the history of the Middle East there has barely been a period of peace, so many huge empires and kingdoms have conquered, ruled and then lost. The Egyptian and Assyrian empires, Alexander and his successor kingdoms, the Romans and Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Mongols, the Fatimids, the Ayyubids, the western Crusaders, the Mamluks, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, the British, the Russians and more. All failed to conquer and keep their areas of the Middle East. ISIL needs dealing with, of course, but a ground invasion is really something we should not be doing. Not to mention the fact one of the glaring things we should be looking at is the funding of these extremist groups. Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are sitting back eating popcorn while money pours from their countries into the pockets of vile cunts like ISIL, Boko Haram and more. Saudi Arabia with its brutal, absolutist monarchy controlling the populace with an iron fist, with practically medieval laws.. all the while their royalty lives it up like hypocrites. Oh no but we can't upset the Saudis because they have oil! Keep up the drone strikes, the raids and special forces work but we cannot be drawn into sending the full army into that utter shitstorm in Syria and Iraq, it will be a bloodbath. Cut the head off the snake; stop the funding and stop their ability to mobilise. The coalition did perfectly well in Afganistan unless W decided to prove to his Daddy his was a big man and diverted huge amounts of troops to an illegal war in Iraq. This allowed the Taliban to regroup when they were virtually finished. The war was as close to being over there as any war is now. Not quite. The reason Afghanistan stabilized so much is not because the Taliban were in headlong retreat but because we negotiated areas where we would no longer contest their dominance and influence. Basically they fell back and bided their time. We could never conquer Afghanistan, and short of turning the entire region into a nuclear slag heap, it cannot be conquered. Bush did take the emphasis off Afghanistan but that was fairly early on, and after the Tora Bora episode, where it is believed Bin Laden was cornered and Bush allowed him to escape (either through complicit action or implicit negligence), Afghanistan was the fig leaf that allowed troops to be funneled into Iraq. |
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Post by Bestie on Nov 18, 2015 21:13:47 GMT
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