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Post by Paul on Dec 3, 2020 6:35:33 GMT
Wasnt just the sending off for me. We were trailing by that point with 20 minutes to go. As soon as the red card happened he should have made changes. He made one change before the 80th minute chasing a goal.
I love the guy and will defend him as much as I can if I feel he deserves it but that was inexcusable last night.
However we also need to stop wasting so many chances. I'm just as pissed about the Martial miss as I am the sending off. Drop the cunt, fed up of his sub par performances aswell.
Still in our own hands anyway. Cant afford to make any mistakes now. Doing it yet again in typical United fashion, never the simple way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 6:41:15 GMT
What are you on about? That's not a risk any manager worth his salt should be taking. That's a blindingly stupid risk. A good risk is playing only 1 defensive midfielder against a free flowing attacking team. That's a good risk because you're going after them. Keeping a man on the pitch who's lucky to be there in the first place while PSG are frothing at the mouth to get him sent off is utter fucking stupidity and there's no other way of looking at it. Yup. No one is saying sub any player who gets booked, but when they play the role Fred does, was unbelievably lucky not to get sent off in the first place (regardless of the dive by the letter of the law Fred should 100% have gone, we've all seen countless players sent off for that), so very likely in the refs mind that he may have got it wrong and would be looking for any excuse to send him off, and is playing a team full of con men, cheats, divers and wankers, who you know fine damn well will now be looking to make the most of any touch from Fred to get him off? Then you bloody well sub that man as quick as you can. Not doing so is shit management, absolutely as simple as that. I'm fine with people wanting to defend Ole but there's times honesty needs to take over. He seriously fucked up, trying to deny it makes you look stupid. Not so much defending Ole as trying not to be clever in hindsight. As rightly posted above, we scream all sort of drivel at the screens. Check the Southampton game thread for the latest examples. To then come and say we all saw that coming, using your words, is stupid. Fred didn't even make a foul for the second yellow and Ole gets the stick instead of the ref/VAR. Reminds me of the shit DDG got when he was blatantly fouled for Everton's goal from a corner at OT last season. The blame should be strictly aimed at the ref on both occasions. It's nothing to do with anyone defending Ole, Fred or DDG in either case. If the ref gets this right Fred would have finished the full 90.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 6:44:08 GMT
Wasnt just the sending off for me. We were trailing by that point with 20 minutes to go. As soon as the red card happened he should have made changes. He made one change before the 80th minute chasing a goal. I love the guy and will defend him as much as I can if I feel he deserves it but that was inexcusable last night. However we also need to stop wasting so many chances. I'm just as pissed about the Martial miss as I am the sending off. Drop the cunt, fed up of his sub par performances aswell. Still in our own hands anyway. Cant afford to make any mistakes now. Doing it yet again in typical United fashion, never the simple way. If we don't progress from this group stage, which many predicted we wouldn't in the first place, it's for the defensive horror show in Istanbul and Martial's profligacy last night. |
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Post by redcase on Dec 3, 2020 6:49:43 GMT
Yup. No one is saying sub any player who gets booked, but when they play the role Fred does, was unbelievably lucky not to get sent off in the first place (regardless of the dive by the letter of the law Fred should 100% have gone, we've all seen countless players sent off for that), so very likely in the refs mind that he may have got it wrong and would be looking for any excuse to send him off, and is playing a team full of con men, cheats, divers and wankers, who you know fine damn well will now be looking to make the most of any touch from Fred to get him off? Then you bloody well sub that man as quick as you can. Not doing so is shit management, absolutely as simple as that. I'm fine with people wanting to defend Ole but there's times honesty needs to take over. He seriously fucked up, trying to deny it makes you look stupid. Not so much defending Ole as trying not to be clever in hindsight. As rightly posted above, we scream all sort of drivel at the screens. Check the Southampton game thread for the latest examples. To then come and say we all saw that coming, using your words, is stupid. Fred didn't even make a foul for the second yellow and Ole gets the stick instead of the ref/VAR. Reminds me of the shit DDG got for when he was blatantly fouled for Everton's goal from a corner at OT last season. The blame should be strictly aimed at the ref on both occasions. It's nothing to do with anyone defending Ole, Fred or DDG in either case. If the ref gets this right Fred would have finished the full 90.
You come off worse with each post. If the ref gets it right Fred is off in the first half. |
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Post by Stew on Dec 3, 2020 7:18:10 GMT
The number of times we see a player get a yellow, and then we scream for that player to be taken off after his next foul only for the said player to complete the full 90... Ole took a risk, which backfired. He admitted it. I'd hate having a manager who didn't take risks. Same goes for the players. We played very well in large parts last night. Better than we did for most of the Leipzig game, in my opinion.
What are you on about? That's not a risk any manager worth his salt should be taking. That's a blindingly stupid risk. A good risk is playing only 1 defensive midfielder against a free flowing attacking team. That's a good risk because you're going after them. Keeping a man on the pitch who's lucky to be there in the first place while PSG are frothing at the mouth to get him sent off is utter fucking stupidity and there's no other way of looking at it. Playing devil’s advocate here but- Didn’t Fergie do exactly the same thing with Rafael vs Bayern? A game of far greater importance? Big mistake by Ole yes, but let’s not pretend it hasn’t happened before. |
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Post by Chris on Dec 3, 2020 7:22:33 GMT
Not so much defending Ole as trying not to be clever in hindsight. As rightly posted above, we scream all sort of drivel at the screens. Check the Southampton game thread for the latest examples. To then come and say we all saw that coming, using your words, is stupid. Fred didn't even make a foul for the second yellow and Ole gets the stick instead of the ref/VAR. Reminds me of the shit DDG got for when he was blatantly fouled for Everton's goal from a corner at OT last season. The blame should be strictly aimed at the ref on both occasions. It's nothing to do with anyone defending Ole, Fred or DDG in either case. If the ref gets this right Fred would have finished the full 90.
You come off worse with each post. If the ref gets it right Fred is off in the first half. There was also a stamp in the first half and he was running round like a mad head at times. Generally, if a player is booked, you keep him on and carry on, but you could tell he was going to go at some point. Like others have said, the referee sees at half time that he should have sent him off and he's looking for any reason after, so take him out the firing line. It's not like he offers much anyway. |
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Post by redcase on Dec 3, 2020 7:31:38 GMT
What are you on about? That's not a risk any manager worth his salt should be taking. That's a blindingly stupid risk. A good risk is playing only 1 defensive midfielder against a free flowing attacking team. That's a good risk because you're going after them. Keeping a man on the pitch who's lucky to be there in the first place while PSG are frothing at the mouth to get him sent off is utter fucking stupidity and there's no other way of looking at it. Playing devil’s advocate here but- Didn’t Fergie do exactly the same thing with Rafael vs Bayern? A game of far greater importance? Big mistake by Ole yes, but let’s not pretend it hasn’t happened before. Yes, Fergie did that, and was rightly rebuked for it. Also, my memory isnt clear, I think we didnt have any backup players for Rafaels position that time? We had several for Fred. |
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Post by juanveron on Dec 3, 2020 7:47:00 GMT
When he saw Tuchel bringing on Herrera, there was only one logical thing to do since he hasn’t done it before - take Fred off. Ander is notorious for trying to get a foul and get players sent off. He should know.
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Post by Stew on Dec 3, 2020 8:07:35 GMT
Playing devil’s advocate here but- Didn’t Fergie do exactly the same thing with Rafael vs Bayern? A game of far greater importance? Big mistake by Ole yes, but let’s not pretend it hasn’t happened before. Yes, Fergie did that, and was rightly rebuked for it. Also, my memory isnt clear, I think we didnt have any backup players for Rafaels position that time? We had several for Fred. I just checked. O’Shea and Evans were both on the bench. |
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Post by thesheepdog on Dec 3, 2020 8:29:30 GMT
I think most managers would have subbed fred its a bed decision no matter what anyone says. To then bring on pogba instead of beeky is also a head scratcher. Pogba clearly isn't interested. The way he jogged into the penalty area when they were attacking just shows how uninterested he is. If that clip of bruno screaming make a change is legit. That just shows there is discontent in the dressing room. We all know he is a couple of bad results off getting the sack and I think the next 3 games will be his undoing. I will be sad but its inevitable
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Post by redcase on Dec 3, 2020 8:29:40 GMT
Yes, Fergie did that, and was rightly rebuked for it. Also, my memory isnt clear, I think we didnt have any backup players for Rafaels position that time? We had several for Fred. I just checked. O’Shea and Evans were both on the bench. Okay. Although, up against Ribery, in all fairness they'd get shred. I'd argue Fergies persistence, while wrong, was due to the fact that the options would have gotten mullered by their wing pace. |
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 3, 2020 8:35:04 GMT
Drawing any kind of comparison to anything SAF did or did not is nonsense,as managers they cannot be mentioned in the same conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 8:37:42 GMT
Not so much defending Ole as trying not to be clever in hindsight. As rightly posted above, we scream all sort of drivel at the screens. Check the Southampton game thread for the latest examples. To then come and say we all saw that coming, using your words, is stupid. Fred didn't even make a foul for the second yellow and Ole gets the stick instead of the ref/VAR. Reminds me of the shit DDG got for when he was blatantly fouled for Everton's goal from a corner at OT last season. The blame should be strictly aimed at the ref on both occasions. It's nothing to do with anyone defending Ole, Fred or DDG in either case. If the ref gets this right Fred would have finished the full 90.
You come off worse with each post. If the ref gets it right Fred is off in the first half. I thought the ref was spot on for the first half incident. In fact, I thought Paredes should have been booked as well as they both squared up in each other's face. That Paredes decided to drop to the ground like a sack of shit doesn't make him any more of a victim in that instance.
But it's OK that we do not agree. This place would have been boring if we all agreed on everything.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 3, 2020 8:46:01 GMT
I think most managers would have subbed fred its a bed decision no matter what anyone says. To then bring on pogba instead of beeky is also a head scratcher. Pogba clearly isn't interested. The way he jogged into the penalty area when they were attacking just shows how uninterested he is. If that clip of bruno screaming make a change is legit. That just shows there is discontent in the dressing room. We all know he is a couple of bad results off getting the sack and I think the next 3 games will be his undoing. I will be sad but its inevitable There is discontent in the dressing & the ht Spurs bust up happened. |
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Post by Stew on Dec 3, 2020 8:51:45 GMT
Drawing any kind of comparison to anything SAF did or did not is nonsense,as managers they cannot be mentioned in the same conversation. Rubbish. The other poster said No top manager would make the kind of mistake Ole did last night. Probably the greatest manager of all time did exactly the same thing. In a far more important game. Ole was daft doing what he did last night, clearly. I was one of those that said Donny needed to come on at HT. No one can argue that. |
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