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Post by unitedsotex on Oct 4, 2024 12:49:09 GMT
I really wanted us to buy Ugarte and watched as many extensive highlights of his appearances with Uruguay during the Copa. By any measure he was one of, if not the best defensive mid at the tournament. He’s been with us for about 10 minutes and already it looks like we’ve scrambled his brain with some bizarre tactical demands and he looks incapable of the most basic of roles. One of the other teams I support has a coach who is getting a huge amount out of not great talent, which has to be the sign of someone really earning his corn. Ten Hag looks to be the exact opposite and I’d worry the impact this might have on the likes of Garnacho and Mainoo. I think ETH has done this to him by not knowing what the hell he wants out of this team. Honestly they all look clueless on the pitch with whatever ETH is telling them to do..... |
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Post by Kojak on Oct 4, 2024 13:19:45 GMT
What happens if Villa get a guy sent off for a professional foul in the 15th minute and we beat 10 men? Does that mean that everything is suddenly rosey? Or if Onana has the game of his life and we get a breakaway goal after being battered? Smacks of fudging the issue. Be brave FFS. Yeah this is bang on. Beating Villa changes nothing. Nobody surely believes that this can be fully turned around now? Not a bloody chance of it. You know he’s not the right man, you’re lying to yourselves, the fans and also Erik by keeping him on. I don’t know if it’s the notion that Fergie had one game to save his job and did it so we just assume that it could happen to someone else. Nobody else is Fergie. Nobody is or will be comparable to that scenario. I don’t really harbour any bad feeling towards ETH. He’s done his best, I do not believe he’s thrown the towel in despite the pressure. Other better managers have engineered themselves a way out of clubs when the end feels near. He has won a couple of trophies which has been great. He seems a really decent fella, I was so happy for him when he spoke after the FA Cup Final, in the face of his critics. But it’s clear as day he can’t take us to a level above being a cup team. Thanks for the two great days out, good luck in your future endeavours. |
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Post by unitedsotex on Oct 4, 2024 13:49:45 GMT
What happens if Villa get a guy sent off for a professional foul in the 15th minute and we beat 10 men? Does that mean that everything is suddenly rosey? Or if Onana has the game of his life and we get a breakaway goal after being battered? Smacks of fudging the issue. Be brave FFS. Yeah this is bang on. Beating Villa changes nothing. Nobody surely believes that this can be fully turned around now? Not a bloody chance of it. You know he’s not the right man, you’re lying to yourselves, the fans and also Erik by keeping him on. I don’t know if it’s the notion that Fergie had one game to save his job and did it so we just assume that it could happen to someone else. Nobody else is Fergie. Nobody is or will be comparable to that scenario. I don’t really harbour any bad feeling towards ETH. He’s done his best, I do not believe he’s thrown the towel in despite the pressure. Other better managers have engineered themselves a way out of clubs when the end feels near. He has won a couple of trophies which has been great. He seems a really decent fella, I was so happy for him when he spoke after the FA Cup Final, in the face of his critics. But it’s clear as day he can’t take us to a level above being a cup team. Thanks for the two great days out, good luck in your future endeavours. Unfortunately beating Villa only protects him a little longer. Rumors on twitter is he's gone if we lose, but honestly I think it should be he's gone regardless. Use the International break as a buffer for a reset with whoever is taking over and for the players to get set in with the style of playing |
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Post by Paul on Oct 4, 2024 14:02:19 GMT
We haven't won a game away from home in Europe for 19 months.
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Post by seanie on Oct 4, 2024 14:24:48 GMT
I agree that managers aren't miracle workers. But even making allowances for the playing squad you'd expect a lot better performances and results. Look at the teams lying above us in the Premier League and Europa League table. Another point the article made which might explain Arteta's success is that he knew from the start how he wanted to play. So that when better players arrived there was a clear benefit. A similar thing happened under Liverpool with Klopp.
If there is any lesson from the article it is that it is better to have a less tactically sophisticated manager who knows exactly how he wants to play and sticks to his guns than having a very tactically sophisticated manager who feeling he doesn't have the players he needs to play the way he wants tries to compromise and ends up sending mixed messages and confusing everyone. I though the whole point of Jason Wilcox is that he was supposed to be deciding on a style of play which was to be implemented through the ranks from youth team to the senior team and managers would be hired in part on the basis of their affinity with that style of play and ability to implement it. Even Ole outperformed Erik with a weaker squad (at least in the league) because while tactically naive he knew exactly how he wanted to play and had a clear vision. I hear you, but he finished 8th 2 years in a row, so it's not like he was working miracles with his genius football from the start. He was given the breathing space to spend 3 years getting it there without worrying about top 4 or winning cups! The one difference is personality, timing and fit and that may the issue here with us. Emery didn't have the right personality or charm or the luck of timing with a new structure and Edu. He was the wrong fit for a rebuild, but Arteta was the right guy at the right time, with excellent people to help him. Emery is the right guy at the right time for Villa, but both have had massive changes above them they have had time to benefit from. I don't actually believe that the last 2 years or the last 10 years has had any plan other than get top 4, try to win a trophy and here's your budget and here's the last guys players and style. It's literally been the same for every one of them and after 2 years or one year they are all clueless, tactically stupid morons! Gary Neville, Scholes, Rio Ferdinand and the rest all calling for their removal! |
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Post by viking22 on Oct 4, 2024 15:05:14 GMT
Yeah I think you're right re the personality, timing and fit point. There will be plenty of offers for him when we sack him and perhaps the next chance he will have at a big club he will do a lot better.
We probably need a very good man manager who has some experience already at big clubs so won't be phased. Fergie apparently is a fan of Max Allegri. And I think he ticks all the boxes. He'd improve us defensively for a start. He's managed big Italian clubs and won lots of trophies. He is less volatile and antagonistic than Tuchel and Conte. He will be able to steady the ship and keep us competitive while INEOS work to improve the squad and the operations of the club.
There is no point getting a young progressive innovative manager because the players won't listen to him and won't understand or be able to implement what he wants. So we need someone experienced like Allegri for the next few years. Then we might be ready for someone like that.
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Post by Karma on Oct 4, 2024 16:32:10 GMT
John Cross on SSN (journo) prattling on about United giving managers time, why is this absolute bullshit continuing to be peddled ? Presumably Fergie’s speech with Moyes. Only reason this has become a thing is because the ownership is tight and don’t pull the trigger when they should, not some romantic bullshit. They’re hiding behind an Fa cup, incompetent twats. Fuck sake, he’s had two seasons and 10 games. Wes till have zero identity and not a single poster on here can say categorically what type of football we want to play. We’re a shambles defensively and teams are starting to cut us to pieces with ease. How much longer do these guys want us to give Ten Hag? As long as it keeps us insignificant. Cross is an Arsenal fan. |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Oct 4, 2024 17:08:14 GMT
Arteta is the guy who has won 1 FA cup in last 5 years or so. Might as well as bring Ole back if thats the case, he took us to 3rd in the league , then a 2nd , a Europa league final and the football when it clicked was brilliant. |
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Post by redcase on Oct 4, 2024 17:17:02 GMT
Arteta is the guy who has won 1 FA cup in last 5 years or so. Might as well as bring Ole back if thats the case, he took us to 3rd in the league , then a 2nd , a Europa league final and the football when it clicked was brilliant. If you think Arteta and Ole are the same, you’re clueless. |
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Post by Stretty on Oct 4, 2024 17:20:22 GMT
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Post by Kojak on Oct 4, 2024 17:29:27 GMT
Arteta is the guy who has won 1 FA cup in last 5 years or so. Might as well as bring Ole back if thats the case, he took us to 3rd in the league , then a 2nd , a Europa league final and the football when it clicked was brilliant. If you think Arteta and Ole are the same, you’re clueless. Good point, Ole’s not a psychopathic Lego-headed freak doing the bidding of the Mysterons for a start. |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Oct 4, 2024 18:01:35 GMT
Arteta is the guy who has won 1 FA cup in last 5 years or so. Might as well as bring Ole back if thats the case, he took us to 3rd in the league , then a 2nd , a Europa league final and the football when it clicked was brilliant. If you think Arteta and Ole are the same, you’re clueless. Arteta is obviously a better manager than Ole , but he looks like a guy happy to finish second. We call Ten Hag clueless but even he won more than Arteta with our shit squad. 1 FA cup in 5 years and iam sure they wont win anything this season either. |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Oct 4, 2024 18:16:39 GMT
Yeah I think you're right re the personality, timing and fit point. There will be plenty of offers for him when we sack him and perhaps the next chance he will have at a big club he will do a lot better. We probably need a very good man manager who has some experience already at big clubs so won't be phased. Fergie apparently is a fan of Max Allegri. And I think he ticks all the boxes. He'd improve us defensively for a start. He's managed big Italian clubs and won lots of trophies. He is less volatile and antagonistic than Tuchel and Conte. He will be able to steady the ship and keep us competitive while INEOS work to improve the squad and the operations of the club. There is no point getting a young progressive innovative manager because the players won't listen to him and won't understand or be able to implement what he wants. So we need someone experienced like Allegri for the next few years. Then we might be ready for someone like that. I honestly feel we are over complicating all this stuff with the manager , style of play , role of INEOS team , the right process , right philosophy etc.. What we need is very simple - assemble a squad capable of winning the PL and domestic trophies regularly. We do that by getting a proven winner as the manager and have the INEOS team work to get his players signed , not the other way round. For me the key is to get back to winning regularly asap. Yes it will be expensive but once you have such a core you can start introducing younger academy players into that setup. Just look at the difference in standards when a young Ronaldo came to United and the current one the likes of Mainoo comes into , who are the senior pros who sets the standards in training daily, who shows them how to win the key moments in the game , who lifts the dressing room atmosphere after a bad first half. |
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Post by redcase on Oct 4, 2024 18:24:42 GMT
If you think Arteta and Ole are the same, you’re clueless. Good point, Ole’s not a psychopathic Lego-headed freak doing the bidding of the Mysterons for a start. Not bothered with that honestly, his team plays the best football in the league. |
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Post by anti_social on Oct 4, 2024 19:03:48 GMT
I really wanted us to buy Ugarte and watched as many extensive highlights of his appearances with Uruguay during the Copa. By any measure he was one of, if not the best defensive mid at the tournament. He’s been with us for about 10 minutes and already it looks like we’ve scrambled his brain with some bizarre tactical demands and he looks incapable of the most basic of roles. One of the other teams I support has a coach who is getting a huge amount out of not great talent, which has to be the sign of someone really earning his corn. Ten Hag looks to be the exact opposite and I’d worry the impact this might have on the likes of Garnacho and Mainoo. Totally agree re:Ugarte. I expect I watched less of the Copa than you, but what I saw was an entirely different player. I read somewhere, maybe Mitten, that some of the feedback from players was that they found ETH’s instructions confusing. That helps explain not just Ugarte’s but also pretty much the whole squad’s listlessness. Again back to the fact that he’s sadly just a poor manager, communicator, tactician and strategist. |
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