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Post by redcase on Jun 28, 2013 13:25:23 GMT
I think Paul sums it up best. Rooney wanted a payraise, Ronaldo wanted a new challenge. He could have easily opted to stay and get a bumper new deal. But no. He stuck to his guns. There is nothing wrong with what Ronaldo said IMO. Real Madrid is a huge club and he wanted to pit his wits against new opposition. And how well he has done ! He has broken La Liga records but has criminally few trophies to show for it. And nothing hurts him more. He is infinitely more motivated by trophies and wanting to be the best than Rooney is. In his current state, Rooney is not as motivated to play for Man United. Why the hell keep such a player? Let him leave for top dollar and invest that moolah into players who really want to play for us. Simple as. This stupid comparison between Rooney and Ronaldo has to stop. Rooney will never be on his level in his entire lifetime.
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Post by henrik90 on Jun 28, 2013 14:21:43 GMT
Ronaldo's reason for leaving - He said, "After we won the European Cup [Champions League], I began to think that there was nothing left for me to achieve in Manchester.
"I realised that when you achieve everything, it is time to seek a new challenge. I stayed another year and enjoyed it, but my dream was to play for Real Madrid."Rooney's reason for wanting to leave - "I'm not number one anymore, I don't like it, I'm not the centre of attention *throws matchbox car across the room*, I also question the ambition of the club even though we have just won the league title, we have only won 20 league titles and 3 European cups and have won trophies than any other club in England but this is simply no acceptable. I wish to hand in a transfer request because I have no respect for the club or the fans and I feel I can't afford to pay all the bills with me measly wage"Whether Rooney leaves or stays - our club is in a state that we should be fine either way. But what disturbs me is when people and our own United fans who I'd like to like start to throw shit at our own players. Rooney's been a dick in the past, on more than one occasion. But look what you are doing here - not just the person I quoted but most of the rest of you too - you blame him in things that are based on what? The media reports are contradictory, if anything the more respectful sources seem to imply that Rooney never really gave in a formal transfer request and what he said was in a spur of the moment, it's a human behaviour, all of us say stupid shit when we're angry. Kagawa and Chicharito wouldn't have said that, but Rooney has his baggage we all know that, we have all known for years that he has his downsides but I thought you would have accepted it by now. Because in this baggage he also has this incredible fire which is the reason why he's been so idolised over the year. And I find it incredible how many of you are absolutely convinced that this fire in him has burnt up, that he has no more ambition and his better days are behind him - have you never watched football before? This is almost like word to word what some journalists wrote about him in 2006 after he couldn't score goals and after his terrible displays for United at the beginning of 10/11 season. OK, if it finds confirmation that Rooney really doesn't like this club any more or he wants more money or wants to leave because he thinks our club is not appreciating him then sure, i'll jump on the bandwagon with you and say he's a dick. But until then you people should have a little respect for the player, who despite his flaws, has given us years of joy, he's been the key contributor in perhaps our most successful era ever. And you come out making claims such as he wants to leave for money and he thinks we're on a downfall etc. Where are you taking this from? Is it really that easy to convince you by some Sun journalist, whose sole aim is to sell more paper, that Rooney is as bad in this situation as you're making him out to be? Sorry if I come off as claiming as if Rooney's the good guy here, I'm also disappointed in him, but I'm just trying to balance the arguments here a little, because I feel you are going way too far with the Rooney bashing.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Jun 28, 2013 14:27:24 GMT
Ronaldo's reason for leaving - He said, "After we won the European Cup [Champions League], I began to think that there was nothing left for me to achieve in Manchester.
"I realised that when you achieve everything, it is time to seek a new challenge. I stayed another year and enjoyed it, but my dream was to play for Real Madrid."Rooney's reason for wanting to leave - "I'm not number one anymore, I don't like it, I'm not the centre of attention *throws matchbox car across the room*, I also question the ambition of the club even though we have just won the league title, we have only won 20 league titles and 3 European cups and have won trophies than any other club in England but this is simply no acceptable. I wish to hand in a transfer request because I have no respect for the club or the fans and I feel I can't afford to pay all the bills with me measly wage"Whether Rooney leaves or stays - our club is in a state that we should be fine either way. But what disturbs me is when people and our own United fans who I'd like to like start to throw shit at our own players. Rooney's been a dick in the past, on more than one occasion. But look what you are doing here - not just the person I quoted but most of the rest of you too - you blame him in things that are based on what? The media reports are contradictory, if anything the more respectful sources seem to imply that Rooney never really gave in a formal transfer request and what he said was in a spur of the moment, it's a human behaviour, all of us say stupid shit when we're angry. Kagawa and Chicharito wouldn't have said that, but Rooney has his baggage we all know that, we have all known for years that he has his downsides but I thought you would have accepted it by now. Because in this baggage he also has this incredible fire which is the reason why he's been so idolised over the year. And I find it incredible how many of you are absolutely convinced that this fire in him has burnt up, that he has no more ambition and his better days are behind him - have you never watched football before? This is almost like word to word what some journalists wrote about him in 2006 after he couldn't score goals and after his terrible displays for United at the beginning of 10/11 season. OK, if it finds confirmation that Rooney really doesn't like this club any more or he wants more money or wants to leave because he thinks our club is not appreciating him then sure, i'll jump on the bandwagon with you and say he's a dick. But until then you people should have a little respect for the player, who despite his flaws, has given us years of joy, he's been the key contributor in perhaps our most successful era ever. And you come out making claims such as he wants to leave for money and he thinks we're on a downfall etc. Where are you taking this from? Is it really that easy to convince you by some Sun journalist, whose sole aim is to sell more paper, that Rooney is as bad in this situation as you're making him out to be?Sorry if I come off as claiming as if Rooney's the good guy here, I'm also disappointed in him, but I'm just trying to balance the arguments here a little, because I feel you are going way too far with the Rooney bashing. Oh dear lord.....i would have thought the fucking huge contract he was suddenly happy to sign, after saying the club wasn't ambitious enough for him, was clear fucking proof it was about money. Especially when City were the ones looking to sign him - and lets face it, they hardly have a reputation for handing out small contracts do they?? It was confirmed at the time that it was all about money - if you actually read a particular United fanzines and frequented their forum, rather than just listening to the mainstream media (like you just claimed we apparently all do, as if we are some simple-minded trawler-chasing seagulls who are easily convinced by The Sun) then you would know this. If he had got his head down, worked his arse off all the time, kept himself fit when he wasn't playing and got on with his job instead of moaning, then there would be nothing said about him. But he hasn't. He has thrown his toys out the pram once again and asked for a transfer AGAIN - regardless of whether its an official request or not. Coupled with him turning up for pre-season overweight and unfit, plus his huge contract and that means he has bought it on himself. Whilst we shouldn't be looking to actively sell one of our best players, if the player himself wants to leave then we shouldn't & can't force him to stay. If he does want to stay then the club needs to sit down and have a proper word with him about his behaviour and make sure it doesn't happen again. Cos otherwise it's the club that loses face cos it looks like they are being pushed around by the player.
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Post by henrik90 on Jun 28, 2013 15:18:41 GMT
Surely you actually must have understood that my post wasn't at all aimed at his request back in 2010? you are right that he has fitness problems every once in a while, I wasn't arguing that nor the fact that if we sign for example Thiago it might be the right time to cash in for him.
My problem is the fact how people forgave Rooney after the 2010 incident or at least accepted it and went on. But now suddenly everyone's blaming Rooney in the things he did in 2010 and calling him greedy, arrogant and otherwise being disrespectful and hateful towards him, it's as if you know the situation is exactly the same. You're convicting Rooney before there's that much reason to suggest he's that guilty.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Jun 28, 2013 15:27:04 GMT
Unless the gimps have suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, then of course the situation isn't exactly the same, cos there is no hope in hell he is gonna get a payrise on his already astronomical wages.
The problem is he has asked to leave the club again, cos he is unhappy he was dropped for certain games. The reason he was dropped was tactical and because we now have RVP up front - the same RVP who is one of the top players we bought in when Rooney threw his first tantrum and accused the clubs ambitions. This shows a serious lack of something (professionalism/whatever) as because he isn't the top dog anymore he isn't happy. Also, by throwing a strop for being left out it hardly looks good on his team ethic does it?
So, again, Rooney has bought it all on himself.
It's either that or Fergie told a bare-faced lie and Rooney never said anything at all......
EDIT:
Greedy? Well, if you accused your bosses of lacking ambition and saying you wanted to leave, then they offered you a bumper pay-rise which you accepted, does that not in some way make you greedy? Why didn't he turn around and say "How about instead of a pay rise, you invest that extra wage money in the top players i asked for?" ??
Arrogant? Well, throwing a strop cos you were left out of a game indicates that you thought you should start all the time, rather than earn the spot. Isn't that arrogant? Arrogance is necessary to an extent, but at the same time, you still have to do your job and prove your worth. Cantona, Ronaldo & Keane had big arrogant streaks - but they did the job.
Disrespectful & hateful? Like he was to the fans who pay his wages by calling the club unambitious? The same club he has won the lot with? And to do it to Fergie too, the same manager who gave him his chance at United?? By using the fans fears that the debt would hinder the clubs ambitions against us to either try and leave or get a payrise? He's getting a taste of his own medicine as far as im concerned.
He's only been called what he has shown us to be. You can chuck in unfit & unprofessional at times too - like turning up last season unfit and overweight.
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Post by 20lskjaer on Jun 28, 2013 15:35:15 GMT
Unless the gimps have suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, then of course the situation isn't exactly the same, cos there is no hope in hell he is gonna get a payrise on his already astronomical wages. The problem is he has asked to leave the club again, cos he is unhappy he was dropped for certain games. The reason he was dropped was tactical and because we now have RVP up front - the same RVP who is one of the top players we bought in when Rooney threw his first tantrum and accused the clubs ambitions. This shows a serious lack of something (professionalism/whatever) as because he isn't the top dog anymore he isn't happy. Also, by throwing a strop for being left out it hardly looks good on his team ethic does it? So, again, Rooney has bought it all on himself. It's either that or Fergie told a bare-faced lie and Rooney never said anything at all...... And if that's the case, Rooney's had plenty of time to come out with his own take on things, but he's said sod all which tells its own story.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Jun 28, 2013 15:36:10 GMT
Unless the gimps have suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, then of course the situation isn't exactly the same, cos there is no hope in hell he is gonna get a payrise on his already astronomical wages. The problem is he has asked to leave the club again, cos he is unhappy he was dropped for certain games. The reason he was dropped was tactical and because we now have RVP up front - the same RVP who is one of the top players we bought in when Rooney threw his first tantrum and accused the clubs ambitions. This shows a serious lack of something (professionalism/whatever) as because he isn't the top dog anymore he isn't happy. Also, by throwing a strop for being left out it hardly looks good on his team ethic does it? So, again, Rooney has bought it all on himself. It's either that or Fergie told a bare-faced lie and Rooney never said anything at all...... And if that's the case, Rooney's had plenty of time to come out with his own take on things, but he's said sod all which tells its own story. Exactly. I knew there was something i missed. Cheers
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Post by henrik90 on Jun 28, 2013 15:41:28 GMT
Unless the gimps have suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, then of course the situation isn't exactly the same, cos there is no hope in hell he is gonna get a payrise on his already astronomical wages. The problem is he has asked to leave the club again, cos he is unhappy he was dropped for certain games. The reason he was dropped was tactical and because we now have RVP up front - the same RVP who is one of the top players we bought in when Rooney threw his first tantrum and accused the clubs ambitions. This shows a serious lack of something (professionalism/whatever) as because he isn't the top dog anymore he isn't happy. Also, by throwing a strop for being left out it hardly looks good on his team ethic does it? So, again, Rooney has bought it all on himself. It's either that or Fergie told a bare-faced lie and Rooney never said anything at all...... I agree with you in most part. But just read some of the comments a few pages ago in this topic, they're awful. There is no reason to suggest Rooney is requesting a pay rise, yet so many seems to be convinced that's what he's doing. Wanting out because he didn't play is stupid and wrong but I state again - we don't really have any facts about that transfer request. It's very doubtful that his act was anything more than just Rooney's temperament bursting out in a moment of anger. And yet everyone is making so far-reaching conclusions about him here. EDIT: about saving his image it's most likely that Rooney is quite seriously considering leaving. He was booed during the title presentation and generally United fans have turned their back to him so it will be very hard for him to win anyone back over. He'll probably make some kind of statement regarding this transfer fiasco when he actually stays in the club.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 15:47:05 GMT
Unless the gimps have suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, then of course the situation isn't exactly the same, cos there is no hope in hell he is gonna get a payrise on his already astronomical wages. The problem is he has asked to leave the club again, cos he is unhappy he was dropped for certain games. The reason he was dropped was tactical and because we now have RVP up front - the same RVP who is one of the top players we bought in when Rooney threw his first tantrum and accused the clubs ambitions. This shows a serious lack of something (professionalism/whatever) as because he isn't the top dog anymore he isn't happy. Also, by throwing a strop for being left out it hardly looks good on his team ethic does it? So, again, Rooney has bought it all on himself. It's either that or Fergie told a bare-faced lie and Rooney never said anything at all...... I agree with you in most part. But just read some of the comments a few pages ago in this topic, they're awful. There is no reason to suggest Rooney is requesting a pay rise, yet so many seems to be convinced that's what he's doing. Wanting out because he didn't play is stupid and wrong but I state again - we don't really have any facts about that transfer request. It's very doubtful that his act was anything more than just Rooney's temperament bursting out in a moment of anger. And yet everyone is making so far-reaching conclusions about him here. Nice post mate and very logical and rationale. As it stands I want rooney to be moved on. Not because I am up all night fuming that he asked for a transfer. This shit happens. But because he has declined as a footballer and it is extremely questionable whether he can ever reach the brilliant standards he has shown for us. An let us all not forget that Rooney has been brilliant for us in the past. This we cannot deny. Sir David will sort it all out no doubt.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Jun 28, 2013 15:48:28 GMT
Ah, alot of that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt mate. If its older than a week or 2 it's just heat of the moment stuff. Everytime it dies down and a new article or comment is made on it, it just opens up old wounds.
The guy was considered one of us - we thought he "got" what it meant to play for the club, and now it turns out he's no better than most footballers - so it just stings alot more than it normally would.
He could be angling for a payrise, but i'd be very surprised if he is, or even got one, as that would mean he would be up to 300k a week. A fee he isn't worth - fucking hell, the 250k a week he is on now is 150k more than he is worth. Thats without going into the fact that the club broke their wage structure to give him that in the first place, i doubt they would do it (or afford to do it) again.
EDIT:
If he stays and knuckles down, works his arse off, stays fit and that, then it will be somewhat forgotten and he will be ok. Like it was the last time. But once bitten, twice shy and all that. Will be hard, but not impossible
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Post by mightyez on Jun 28, 2013 15:49:47 GMT
if we can sell to monaco or psg for 35 million then great. or madrid for 25 million and di maria
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 16:52:44 GMT
Ronaldo's reason for leaving - He said, "After we won the European Cup [Champions League], I began to think that there was nothing left for me to achieve in Manchester.
"I realised that when you achieve everything, it is time to seek a new challenge. I stayed another year and enjoyed it, but my dream was to play for Real Madrid."Rooney's reason for wanting to leave - "I'm not number one anymore, I don't like it, I'm not the centre of attention *throws matchbox car across the room*, I also question the ambition of the club even though we have just won the league title, we have only won 20 league titles and 3 European cups and have won trophies than any other club in England but this is simply no acceptable. I wish to hand in a transfer request because I have no respect for the club or the fans and I feel I can't afford to pay all the bills with me measly wage"Whether Rooney leaves or stays - our club is in a state that we should be fine either way. But what disturbs me is when people and our own United fans who I'd like to like start to throw shit at our own players. Rooney's been a dick in the past, on more than one occasion. But look what you are doing here - not just the person I quoted but most of the rest of you too - you blame him in things that are based on what? The media reports are contradictory, if anything the more respectful sources seem to imply that Rooney never really gave in a formal transfer request and what he said was in a spur of the moment, it's a human behaviour, all of us say stupid shit when we're angry. Kagawa and Chicharito wouldn't have said that, but Rooney has his baggage we all know that, we have all known for years that he has his downsides but I thought you would have accepted it by now. Because in this baggage he also has this incredible fire which is the reason why he's been so idolised over the year. And I find it incredible how many of you are absolutely convinced that this fire in him has burnt up, that he has no more ambition and his better days are behind him - have you never watched football before? This is almost like word to word what some journalists wrote about him in 2006 after he couldn't score goals and after his terrible displays for United at the beginning of 10/11 season. OK, if it finds confirmation that Rooney really doesn't like this club any more or he wants more money or wants to leave because he thinks our club is not appreciating him then sure, i'll jump on the bandwagon with you and say he's a dick. But until then you people should have a little respect for the player, who despite his flaws, has given us years of joy, he's been the key contributor in perhaps our most successful era ever. And you come out making claims such as he wants to leave for money and he thinks we're on a downfall etc. Where are you taking this from? Is it really that easy to convince you by some Sun journalist, whose sole aim is to sell more paper, that Rooney is as bad in this situation as you're making him out to be? Sorry if I come off as claiming as if Rooney's the good guy here, I'm also disappointed in him, but I'm just trying to balance the arguments here a little, because I feel you are going way too far with the Rooney bashing. I have a right to say anything I like about the lad whether its good or bad, because I like many others on here, help to PAY HIS WAGES. I'm not slating him as a player, nor am I personally slating him. I have said previous that if he was to leave it would be a massive loss. But I forgave him the first time around, many didn't, but I'll be fucked if I do it a 2nd time. I'm not going to sit here and ridicule him as that would be unfair but the fact that he shows such little respect on the last home game of the season really fucks me off, He is not bigger than the club, many have tried and many have failed, the sooner he gets that through his head the better. I support the club as a whole not the individuals. Some I like more than others but they play as a team. He stays then sure I will support him like I would any other player but most players I don't want to leave whereas Rooney I don't care anymore. If he stays he stays, if he goes he goes. Why should we have to put up with that disrespectful bullshit. Most players would give their right arm to play for us so why should be defend a players demand and yield to selfish childish behavior from a player who is meant to be classed as a rolemodel.
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Post by JamBritRed on Jun 28, 2013 17:37:47 GMT
He could be angling for a payrise, but i'd be very surprised if he is, or even got one, as that would mean he would be up to 300k a week. A fee he isn't worth - fucking hell, the 250k a week he is on now is 150k more than he is worth. Thats without going into the fact that the club broke their wage structure to give him that in the first place, i doubt they would do it (or afford to do it) again. if i remember correctly, the rumors before the'i want to leave if you don't play me' debacle was that he wasn't asking for a pay raise, more that he wanted an extension on the current terms, but that he club had only offered him reduced terms, with better incentive based bonuses. irrespective, at this point i'd still not cry if he left (providing we get a replacement), this situation (coupled with the last) has left a stain on his United career for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 17:41:52 GMT
As they say you play for the badge on the front of the shirt, not the name on the back.
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Kokka78
United Youth Teamer
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Post by Kokka78 on Jun 28, 2013 17:46:01 GMT
Ronaldo's reason for leaving - He said, "After we won the European Cup [Champions League], I began to think that there was nothing left for me to achieve in Manchester.
"I realised that when you achieve everything, it is time to seek a new challenge. I stayed another year and enjoyed it, but my dream was to play for Real Madrid."Rooney's reason for wanting to leave - "I'm not number one anymore, I don't like it, I'm not the centre of attention *throws matchbox car across the room*, I also question the ambition of the club even though we have just won the league title, we have only won 20 league titles and 3 European cups and have won trophies than any other club in England but this is simply no acceptable. I wish to hand in a transfer request because I have no respect for the club or the fans and I feel I can't afford to pay all the bills with me measly wage" Simply spot on! you could explain any better the differences between Ronaldo wanting to leave and Rooney. Ronaldo wanted to win somewhere else and never hide his desire to join Real, mean while Rooney did the opposite, is not even able to give real reasons why he wants to go! I can't wait for the day he leave the club for good!
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