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Post by johnboy14 on Jul 27, 2014 19:22:21 GMT
3 at the back has certainly made a comeback in the game, clubs like Napoli and Juventus have been playing with this system more recently and the importance of the wing backs is the single biggest weakness and strength of the system. They both need to be very rounded players because they provide the width needed to get behind teams because most teams deploy a diamond in midfield which is naturally very narrow. I think Shaw and Rafeal have potential in this position but Rafeal as we all know can't defend very well in a back 4 so I can see players having to tuck in to protect him. Personally I'm not sure about the 352, The best teams in europe right now don't play 352 or 343, its usually 433 or variations of 4231 or 451. Rafael is about the only defender in the back 4, including the DM/CM that can actually tackle, Vidic when healthy was the other. My main concern is the make up of the three center backs, Jones is not ready for that Central position, Evans was exposed on the LCB slot, and Smalling seems to think that defending is extending his arms out and stop a attacking player by constantly fouling him. We need a central CB that has the technical ability to not only tackle, but is gifted with both feet, and can pass out of trouble when needed. Also needs to be a leader and communicator with the back line, not sure if our current three check off any of those boxes... Jones would be the best footballer of those 3 you mentioned, but if you mean a player in the class of a Matt Hummels then your talking about maybe 3 or 4 players in world football, Garay is a player we've been interested in the past but his contractual situation from what I hear is alot like Tevez's was. I agree with the need for a footballing centre half who isn't programmed to put it in the stand.
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Post by Bestie on Jul 27, 2014 20:04:38 GMT
Jonny Evans has once again been inexpicably forgotten in all this. If Jonny was Italian or German no-one would be saying we don't have a naturally gifted centre back with the ball at his feet. He's streets ahead of both Smalling and Jones. Smalling fell apart with too much right backing last season and Jones is thick.
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Post by Stew on Jul 27, 2014 20:14:08 GMT
Jonny Evans has once again been inexpicably forgotten in all this. If Jonny was Italian or German no-one would be saying we don't have a naturally gifted centre back with the ball at his feet. He's streets ahead of both Smalling and Jones. Smalling fell apart with too much right backing last season and Jones is thick. Read today that LVG is most impressed with Evans ball playing from the back.
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danw91
United School Boy
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Post by danw91 on Jul 27, 2014 20:46:30 GMT
Jonny Evans has once again been inexpicably forgotten in all this. If Jonny was Italian or German no-one would be saying we don't have a naturally gifted centre back with the ball at his feet. He's streets ahead of both Smalling and Jones. Smalling fell apart with too much right backing last season and Jones is thick. Only going on the game vs Roma but Smalling looked very good in that. I think he will shine along with Jones and Evans. Januzaj can play any forward position so I'm not worried about him Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by ZlattackRed on Jul 28, 2014 4:55:23 GMT
In our league where many teams resort to long balls over the top or sling in crosses, 3-5-2 am not sure is a good idea. I generally found 3 at the back to be a tad inherently unbalanced. Plus it very demanding and requires a lot of tactical discipline. I wish LVG will revert to his favored 4-3-3. Though I broadly agree with your, I feel LvG will not play a 3-5-2 rigidly. There would be tactical changes depending on the opposition. For teams like Stoke, he might change it to 4 at the back. Also, in a 3-5-2/3-4-3 when a wing back is caught out of position in the opposite half, there is always an option of a defensive MF covering up. Also, if the 2nd wing back on the opposite flank is not caught out of position, it can easily change to 4 at the back. 3 solid CB's is the key, everything else can be changed based on the opposition and the situation during the game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 7:04:03 GMT
In our league where many teams resort to long balls over the top or sling in crosses, 3-5-2 am not sure is a good idea. I generally found 3 at the back to be a tad inherently unbalanced. Plus it very demanding and requires a lot of tactical discipline. I wish LVG will revert to his favored 4-3-3. Though I broadly agree with your, I feel LvG will not play a 3-5-2 rigidly. There would be tactical changes depending on the opposition. For teams like Stoke, he might change it to 4 at the back. Also, in a 3-5-2/3-4-3 when a wing back is caught out of position in the opposite half, there is always an option of a defensive MF covering up. Also, if the 2nd wing back on the opposite flank is not caught out of position, it can easily change to 4 at the back. 3 solid CB's is the key, everything else can be changed based on the opposition and the situation during the game. Valencia will be very important to this formation as he can easily move further forward to make a 433 and Jones would move to right back. Very easy to change if things are going wrong. Really exciting.
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Post by ZlattackRed on Jul 28, 2014 7:38:07 GMT
Though I broadly agree with your, I feel LvG will not play a 3-5-2 rigidly. There would be tactical changes depending on the opposition. For teams like Stoke, he might change it to 4 at the back. Also, in a 3-5-2/3-4-3 when a wing back is caught out of position in the opposite half, there is always an option of a defensive MF covering up. Also, if the 2nd wing back on the opposite flank is not caught out of position, it can easily change to 4 at the back. 3 solid CB's is the key, everything else can be changed based on the opposition and the situation during the game. Valencia will be very important to this formation as he can easily move further forward to make a 433 and Jones would move to right back. Very easy to change if things are going wrong. Really exciting. Yeah, thats what I meant. If Toni/Rafa is caught out of position while attacking, we would still have a back 4 of Jones, Smalling, Evans & Shaw. And if shaw is caught out of position then Toni can stay back. Also, if one of the wing backs is stuck up in the opposite half, the other wing back has sufficient time to recover and get back to his original position. I say this because it is highly unlikely that a cross field diagonal ball (from opposition) for switching the play to the other flank has a low probability of success. I am truly excited by this formation because it has goals written all over it.
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Post by NR7 on Jul 28, 2014 7:40:43 GMT
Though I broadly agree with your, I feel LvG will not play a 3-5-2 rigidly. There would be tactical changes depending on the opposition. For teams like Stoke, he might change it to 4 at the back. Also, in a 3-5-2/3-4-3 when a wing back is caught out of position in the opposite half, there is always an option of a defensive MF covering up. Also, if the 2nd wing back on the opposite flank is not caught out of position, it can easily change to 4 at the back. 3 solid CB's is the key, everything else can be changed based on the opposition and the situation during the game. Valencia will be very important to this formation as he can easily move further forward to make a 433 and Jones would move to right back. Very easy to change if things are going wrong. Really exciting. Valencia and Jones on the right flank is exactly what we do not want. If we are going to make a tactical change/sub, rather take one CB off and bring Rafael on. My take is it's easier as a natural full back to play WB than try and convert a winger. Yes, LVG did it to great effect with Kuyt but I suspect that's more out of a lack of options.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 8:20:26 GMT
Valencia will be very important to this formation as he can easily move further forward to make a 433 and Jones would move to right back. Very easy to change if things are going wrong. Really exciting. Valencia and Jones on the right flank is exactly what we do not want. If we are going to make a tactical change/sub, rather take one CB off and bring Rafael on. My take is it's easier as a natural full back to play WB than try and convert a winger. Yes, LVG did it to great effect with Kuyt but I suspect that's more out of a lack of options. Your talking about a substituion. I'm talking about 30th minute this formation clearly isn't working today kind of thing.
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Post by NR7 on Jul 28, 2014 8:31:56 GMT
Valencia and Jones on the right flank is exactly what we do not want. If we are going to make a tactical change/sub, rather take one CB off and bring Rafael on. My take is it's easier as a natural full back to play WB than try and convert a winger. Yes, LVG did it to great effect with Kuyt but I suspect that's more out of a lack of options. Your talking about a substituion. I'm talking about 30th minute this formation clearly isn't working today kind of thing. Yes, a tactical change necessitated by formation not working today as you put it. I was trying to convey, my preference would be to make a sub instead of reshuffling the playing XI on the field. Also, if we change from 3-5-2 to 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-4-2 that would mean shifting one of Spud or Mata wide apart from Jones RB? Is that what you meant or have I got i all wrong?
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