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Post by smithy2 on Mar 13, 2017 23:51:53 GMT
The fact they're exempt from criticism doesn't help either. They need to know if they fuck up there will be consequences. They know they're untouchable and they feed off it. Aye, it wouldn't be so bad if the FA bought em to book in private afterwards, at least you would know they would face some comeback. But they don't. It's been years since the FA last demoted a ref for poor performances. They must see the criticism every week but it seems to make them dig their heels in even more in terms of actually doing anything about it. Wasn't Mike Dean demoted this season for a couple of weeks?
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 13, 2017 23:53:01 GMT
Aye, it wouldn't be so bad if the FA bought em to book in private afterwards, at least you would know they would face some comeback. But they don't. It's been years since the FA last demoted a ref for poor performances. They must see the criticism every week but it seems to make them dig their heels in even more in terms of actually doing anything about it. Wasn't Mike Dean demoted this season for a couple of weeks? Was he? Missed that if so. Thought it was about 2/3 years ago when someone was demoted and it was mentioned in the news
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 0:04:48 GMT
they aren't mutually exclusive. We overpaid. That money changes him from huge potential to must perform week in & week out. He had very little defensive responsibility at Juve though. He now has a lot & has struggled with it. I'm still confident that with the right players around him he will flourish. Me too.
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Post by Ole's Red Whiteknight03 Army on Mar 14, 2017 0:06:33 GMT
See, this is what confuses me, because that's sort of the role he seems to be playing, but we've really paid £89 m for an inside left? Granted the fee isn't his doing, but it does indicate how much of a priority he was to the club and how important we saw him being. That Giggs after he lost his pace role isn't exactly huge money important. Surely Mourinho had something else in mind, no? EDIT: I'm my mind he was signed to be a Carrick type but with some defensive bite and more forward thrust and pace, yet he's not playing that role at all. Could be my ignorance though. Yes & I don't believe he fits into Mourinho's two at all YET. He's still got 10 years ahead of him but he was signed for commercial reasons & then we assumed because he was good we'd make him fit. Our transfer plan has been atrocious post Ferguson. We've signed so many good players with out a clue how to use the. Mourinho playes 4231. Always has done. I don't fancy Pogba in that shape. It was Park & Rafael in the midfield two that Ferguson preferred to playing Pogba. Two players who would scrap & run their bollocks off. The commercial angle I understand, as well as Ed's desire to show the world that he can swing his big fat chequebook around, which may explain the fee and some of our motivation for signing him. Pogba doesn't display the same graft and work rate that a Park did, because that was Park's strength and what kept him in the squad. I'm honestly not sure what Pogba's strengths are, and how to maximize those.
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Post by Ole's Red Whiteknight03 Army on Mar 14, 2017 0:08:13 GMT
I think we're kidding ourselves a little with Pogba. We massively overpaid based on his performances at Juve and unfortunately that form hasn't transferred. Not saying that is all on pogba but let's not try and make excuses as to where he was supposed to play, role etc. What was his form at Juve? I saw a few highlights of him thwacking in shots from outside the box, but I didn't watch them enough to know what he brought to their side.
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Post by Karma on Mar 14, 2017 0:21:39 GMT
Jose said everything that needed to be said about the ref after the game, in a way where he can't get in trouble for saying it. It's just the lack of consistency from the ref that astounds me. I mean, one week he's got tram lines in his hair, the next he doesn't. Make your fucking mind up. He also made it clear what he thinks of Chelsea fans calling him Judas. Conte will be getting the same kind of shite if he fails to deliver next season. Short memories.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 0:29:38 GMT
Yes & I don't believe he fits into Mourinho's two at all YET. He's still got 10 years ahead of him but he was signed for commercial reasons & then we assumed because he was good we'd make him fit. Our transfer plan has been atrocious post Ferguson. We've signed so many good players with out a clue how to use the. Mourinho playes 4231. Always has done. I don't fancy Pogba in that shape. It was Park & Rafael in the midfield two that Ferguson preferred to playing Pogba. Two players who would scrap & run their bollocks off. The commercial angle I understand, as well as Ed's desire to show the world that he can swing his big fat chequebook around, which may explain the fee and some of our motivation for signing him. Pogba doesn't display the same graft and work rate that a Park did, because that was Park's strength and what kept him in the squad. I'm honestly not sure what Pogba's strengths are, and how to maximize those. Pogba's main strength is his passing. When people think of passing they immediately think Scholes but we've had better assisters than Scholes but no one who is such a metronome. Pogba isn't a metronome. Carrick is. Pogba is a creative passer, a defence splitter. Unleash him from defensive burden & his confidence will build & he'll pick teams apart. Playing with 10 men & your midfield partner sent off is the worst possible scenario really.
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Post by washyourhands on Mar 14, 2017 5:36:33 GMT
Pogba works best in a midfield three. His most effective performances this season have been with Ander and Carrick around him. You put someone like Kante in our midfield and then it is a whole different ball game. But of course the problem is, there aren't many like him in world football at the moment; he is simply outstanding. Nevertheless, an additional midfielder of quality is a neccessity this Summer. Matuidi as another Frenchman, comes to mind. Vidal won't leave Bayern I don't think. And this leaves Isco at Real, a fantastic player. I am sure Jose will make the right choice.
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Post by juanveron on Mar 14, 2017 5:38:04 GMT
The commercial angle I understand, as well as Ed's desire to show the world that he can swing his big fat chequebook around, which may explain the fee and some of our motivation for signing him. Pogba doesn't display the same graft and work rate that a Park did, because that was Park's strength and what kept him in the squad. I'm honestly not sure what Pogba's strengths are, and how to maximize those. Pogba's main strength is his passing. When people think of passing they immediately think Scholes but we've had better assisters than Scholes but no one who is such a metronome. Pogba isn't a metronome. Carrick is. Pogba is a creative passer, a defence splitter. Unleash him from defensive burden & his confidence will build & he'll pick teams apart. Playing with 10 men & your midfield partner sent off is the worst possible scenario really. I was also sure he gained quite a reputation for his shots from distance, yet so far most of his attempts have a striking resemblance to those of Juan Veron's.. maybe it's easier in the Serie A?
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Mar 14, 2017 5:55:38 GMT
Realised how incredibly annoying Conte can be last night. Almost every touch on any fucking player and he's mouthing and ranting like a player jumping up and down and shouting at the third official.
I can kind of see why opposition fans hated Fergie, it clearly works.
Frustrating for everyone involved, referee steals the limelight and ruins the game on a night when so many people have paid good money to watch a quality football match.
I had no idea you're allowed to warn a captain that you'll book the next random player to foul a specific player, seems so arbitrary?!
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Post by johnboy14 on Mar 14, 2017 6:35:16 GMT
I think we're kidding ourselves a little with Pogba. We massively overpaid based on his performances at Juve and unfortunately that form hasn't transferred. Not saying that is all on pogba but let's not try and make excuses as to where he was supposed to play, role etc. What was his form at Juve? I saw a few highlights of him thwacking in shots from outside the box, but I didn't watch them enough to know what he brought to their side. My first port of call when discussing Pogba is where do you play him? He's not outstanding at anything in midfield. He's capable of making goals and scoring them ocassionally but did we really sign Paul Pogba to be a number 10 or a centre forward? He will never take teams apart consistently in my opinion, he's just not skillful or clever enough to do that. His workrate for a midfield player is distinctively average and his passing under pressure is normally poor. If you compare him to a real midfield player like Kante last night then difference is incredible, he does nothing a top central midfielder should be doing. During his time at Juve he played with a lot of good midfield players like Pirlo and Vidal and we know how good those guys are. I think he's incredibly overhyped and Juve struck the transfer deal of the century. It pains me to say this but it's true. I was the first to give Fergie stick when he sold him but he was spot on to be honest. I'd love to see him prove me wrong because times on his side but I expect a lot more from him.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Mar 14, 2017 7:01:26 GMT
Most people (me included) see Pogba as someone that, because of his frame, needs to be doing to dirty work and putting in more effort in midfield defensively.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but I see him more as a #10, or the most advanced of a midfield trio with little emphasis on defence.
Think you'll get the best out of him with an out and out defensive midfielder that allows him to focus on creating and scoring goals.
He needs to improve some of his defending on set-pieces though, a bit of a liability at times and it's an area where his size warrants a greater defensive contribution.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Mar 14, 2017 7:10:52 GMT
All of Pogba's best performances have come when he's been in 3, usually with Ander and Carrick. Not sure why we've switched back. I want an injection of pace and explosiveness in our signings this summer. We're sorely lacking that. Absolutely spot on. No idea why we moved away from 4-3-3. It produced nearly all of our best performances this season.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Mar 14, 2017 7:15:57 GMT
The refereeing has been so bad this season it's almost converted me on video technology, but the truth is even that wouldn't help situations like Ander's red where the referee is just utterly determined to send him off regardless and will use the vagueness of the statute book to do it. The only answer is for referees to be less shit, and that starts with accountability.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Mar 14, 2017 7:17:48 GMT
Wasn't Mike Dean demoted this season for a couple of weeks? Was he? Missed that if so. Thought it was about 2/3 years ago when someone was demoted and it was mentioned in the news He went down to the Championship for a game - I want to say after our match at West Ham? - but the FA said he had asked to ref that match and wasn't being demoted iirc.
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