Post by Scott on May 31, 2006 14:59:00 GMT
From The Guardian:
Yes
I think the fact that the World Cup is taking place in the centre of Europe is going to be important because it means everyone can get there easily. This, coupled with everybody's main fear - of Polish and Croatian hooligan groups - means it is almost inevitable that something is going to happen.
While I agree that supporters from Poland and Croatia pose the big threat, I think there is also a potential problem from hooligans from the former East Germany. There is an element who are affiliated to the far right and, for the first time, fans from all over the world are on their doorstep. In general, racism in former Eastern Bloc countries has not been addressed.
What worries me is that England fans may become the target of other groups. Although many countries have domestic hooligan problems, very few export them. Traditionally England has, and the fans could be a target because of that reputation. Other hooligans traditionally consider the English "the best", so there is the temptation to seek them out and try to match themselves.
In the south and east of Germany there have also been rumours that local far-right groups will be targeting black and Asian supporters, and this leaves some English fans vulnerable.
Of the group games, the obvious potential trouble spot is Germany v Poland. In the past, rival Polish hooligan groups have declared an alliance and I believe it has happened again - although there is also the danger of fighting between groups from the same region. For example, Croatian hooligans from Hadjuk Split and Dinamo Zagreb really hate each other. Also, nobody knows how Croatians and Poles living in Germany will react if trouble starts. In the unlikely event that Croatia meet Serbia, the problem could be uncontainable.
You can also expect Russian fans to go to Germany even though their team did not qualify. Ironically, many will be following England. They see English hooligans as the "model" and have been to London to meet English groups. The World Cup is football's party and it's the first time they have had the opportunity and income to go, so their team's failure will not deter them.
I think the German police are as on the ball as they can be. With England fans, the key will be how they are treated. The shift in demographic among our fans and the success of 4,000 banning orders has helped change the atmosphere among those travelling to away matches - from "invading army" to more of a "barmy army", like the cricket fans. The hard work of individuals to re-brand and educate England supporters has also helped. Police know that England are not necessarily a threat any more; the challenge is not so much to contain them as to protect them. Hooliganism is often caused by atmosphere - if it's relaxed it should be OK.
If the police give England fans breathing space - they don't like aggressive policing - then we can be optimistic that the fans won't cause trouble. The danger is that if they are targeted, there is an element among them who will not back down.
No
Our experience with England over the last two tournaments has been in sharp contrast with the reputation built up over previous decades. Japan/South Korea 2002 passed off successfully, and the assumption that this was only because it was so far away and so expensive to get to is a myth.
To qualify for tickets through the Football Association, England fans had to have been to England's qualifying games in order to accrue the necessary points, so those who went to the Far East were were the same people who had supported England throughout qualification.
England fans travelled to Portugal for Euro 2004 in bigger numbers than those from any other nation, and we won plaudits from Uefa for our conduct.
We've come a long way in recent years and there are many factors responsible for the improvement in behaviour and perception. There has been a lot of positive energy put in by England's travelling fans to change our reputation, based on a broad consensus that we were sick of being tarnished by the hooligan image. Very few other countries have gone to the lengths we have with goodwill visits and charity initiatives in the host nation.
Banning orders, of course, have also had an effect. They have stopped offenders travelling and they have enjoyed an astonishingly high level of compliance. The main benefit of the banning orders, however, has been how they have affected tournament organisers and host police forces -they have changed the emphasis from "the English hooligans are coming" to "oh, so the English hooligans are NOT coming".
In our experience the most important factor in whether a tournament will progress peacefully is policing, and the banning orders have helped to predispose police officers to welcome England fans as guests and treat them accordingly.
It would be naive in the extreme to think that an event like the World Cup finals in Germany, attracting hundreds of thousands of football fans to the home of beer, would not give rise to an incident or two. However, the way the tournament is policed will be the crucial factor in determining whether minor and isolated incidents remain as such, or whether they are allowed to escalate into major confrontation.
Our pre-tournament discussions with German police suggest the lessons of Portugal have been absorbed and that policing with a light touch and a friendly face can be expected. Experience has taught us that this provides the best prospect of a peaceful tournament.
England's support can be characterised as large, boisterous and generally good-natured. Whether the same can be said of all other fan groups is more debatable and certainly beyond English supporters' control. Our major requirement from organisers and police is that we should be protected against provocation and attack. It's a sad fact that an England football fan abroad is nowadays much more likely to be a victim of violence than a perpetrator.
Above all, good policing is vital and our record in Japan and Portugal, together with our contacts with organisers and German police, give me growing confidence that England fans will play their part in creating a positive tournament experience.
Yes
I think the fact that the World Cup is taking place in the centre of Europe is going to be important because it means everyone can get there easily. This, coupled with everybody's main fear - of Polish and Croatian hooligan groups - means it is almost inevitable that something is going to happen.
While I agree that supporters from Poland and Croatia pose the big threat, I think there is also a potential problem from hooligans from the former East Germany. There is an element who are affiliated to the far right and, for the first time, fans from all over the world are on their doorstep. In general, racism in former Eastern Bloc countries has not been addressed.
What worries me is that England fans may become the target of other groups. Although many countries have domestic hooligan problems, very few export them. Traditionally England has, and the fans could be a target because of that reputation. Other hooligans traditionally consider the English "the best", so there is the temptation to seek them out and try to match themselves.
In the south and east of Germany there have also been rumours that local far-right groups will be targeting black and Asian supporters, and this leaves some English fans vulnerable.
Of the group games, the obvious potential trouble spot is Germany v Poland. In the past, rival Polish hooligan groups have declared an alliance and I believe it has happened again - although there is also the danger of fighting between groups from the same region. For example, Croatian hooligans from Hadjuk Split and Dinamo Zagreb really hate each other. Also, nobody knows how Croatians and Poles living in Germany will react if trouble starts. In the unlikely event that Croatia meet Serbia, the problem could be uncontainable.
You can also expect Russian fans to go to Germany even though their team did not qualify. Ironically, many will be following England. They see English hooligans as the "model" and have been to London to meet English groups. The World Cup is football's party and it's the first time they have had the opportunity and income to go, so their team's failure will not deter them.
I think the German police are as on the ball as they can be. With England fans, the key will be how they are treated. The shift in demographic among our fans and the success of 4,000 banning orders has helped change the atmosphere among those travelling to away matches - from "invading army" to more of a "barmy army", like the cricket fans. The hard work of individuals to re-brand and educate England supporters has also helped. Police know that England are not necessarily a threat any more; the challenge is not so much to contain them as to protect them. Hooliganism is often caused by atmosphere - if it's relaxed it should be OK.
If the police give England fans breathing space - they don't like aggressive policing - then we can be optimistic that the fans won't cause trouble. The danger is that if they are targeted, there is an element among them who will not back down.
No
Our experience with England over the last two tournaments has been in sharp contrast with the reputation built up over previous decades. Japan/South Korea 2002 passed off successfully, and the assumption that this was only because it was so far away and so expensive to get to is a myth.
To qualify for tickets through the Football Association, England fans had to have been to England's qualifying games in order to accrue the necessary points, so those who went to the Far East were were the same people who had supported England throughout qualification.
England fans travelled to Portugal for Euro 2004 in bigger numbers than those from any other nation, and we won plaudits from Uefa for our conduct.
We've come a long way in recent years and there are many factors responsible for the improvement in behaviour and perception. There has been a lot of positive energy put in by England's travelling fans to change our reputation, based on a broad consensus that we were sick of being tarnished by the hooligan image. Very few other countries have gone to the lengths we have with goodwill visits and charity initiatives in the host nation.
Banning orders, of course, have also had an effect. They have stopped offenders travelling and they have enjoyed an astonishingly high level of compliance. The main benefit of the banning orders, however, has been how they have affected tournament organisers and host police forces -they have changed the emphasis from "the English hooligans are coming" to "oh, so the English hooligans are NOT coming".
In our experience the most important factor in whether a tournament will progress peacefully is policing, and the banning orders have helped to predispose police officers to welcome England fans as guests and treat them accordingly.
It would be naive in the extreme to think that an event like the World Cup finals in Germany, attracting hundreds of thousands of football fans to the home of beer, would not give rise to an incident or two. However, the way the tournament is policed will be the crucial factor in determining whether minor and isolated incidents remain as such, or whether they are allowed to escalate into major confrontation.
Our pre-tournament discussions with German police suggest the lessons of Portugal have been absorbed and that policing with a light touch and a friendly face can be expected. Experience has taught us that this provides the best prospect of a peaceful tournament.
England's support can be characterised as large, boisterous and generally good-natured. Whether the same can be said of all other fan groups is more debatable and certainly beyond English supporters' control. Our major requirement from organisers and police is that we should be protected against provocation and attack. It's a sad fact that an England football fan abroad is nowadays much more likely to be a victim of violence than a perpetrator.
Above all, good policing is vital and our record in Japan and Portugal, together with our contacts with organisers and German police, give me growing confidence that England fans will play their part in creating a positive tournament experience.
