England Can Only Dream Of Joga Bonito?

[Scott]

Clickit

Thread to discuss Republik of Mancunia's latest blog.

[Busby Boy]

Another top read.

I think Joga Bonito can be achieved in England, Manchester United and Arsenal are the only teams that want to do it and next season will be the years when one of those teams win it, hopefully us!...

[Red Yank]

What makes this sport the "beautiful game"? Is it the number of trophies a club accumulates? Is it the fancy footwork some players display? Perhaps we all enjoy the tactics executed by a skilled team?

What I've always enjoyed about this sport is the passion we have toward it, and I don't mean that divisive passion which leads to violence, but the kind where people can support different sides but still have a great time together playing and discussing the sport.

We're at time where clubs are big money earning machines and in the business world we deal with bottom lines and profits which are maintained by a clubs success domestically and in major competitions. Passion? Well that can be left to the kids on the pitch and supporters in the pubs etc. All of the values in the Joga Bonito campaign are ones we shouldn't forget because they are what made the game beautiful to begin with. Call me an idiot but I'd much rather watch a team that gives 110% on the pitch and doesn't win a championship each year than one that does but by cheating. Accepting those tactics takes away from the sport and allows more of that "win at all costs" mentality which I find saddening. I don't think the Joga Bonito ideals are far fetched, but the more we accept winning by any means over love of the sport then they'll slip further and further away.

[chiff]

It's an interesting philosophy - worthy and full of ideals - but really misses the whole point about competition in today's world. What has changed in my considerable lifetime is the "dishonour in defeat". What has emerged with massive financial differentials between success and failure is not so much a win at all costs attitude but a complete fear of losing. And that brings negativity - cheats and all.
Utd. are my team. I want them to win but more importantly I want them to play to their potential. And I want the players we have to want to play for Utd. Much as I criticise them, I want players like Scholes and Giggs and especially Gary Neville to play for me. I have always enjoyed the ideals behind the way we play - except perhaps the Sexton Era - and no more so when Tommy Doc was manager. And really in those days we won nowt. SAF came along and changed all that and we started winning things so many of todays fans know no different.
But supposing I was a "blue". What would be my wishes? To beat Utd of course. How? Do I care? Not in the slightest. FInd me a team that can kill a game, frustrate and then score one goal and we win; whoopeeeee! Then we take it a stage further - get Roo frustrated, he makes a bad tackle, we roll around fifteen times and he gets sent off. Don't forget we're still a City fan - how do we feel? Bloody great. Or do we do a Wigan? We're in the first final ever and we go out there to play nice football and we get taken apart by probably the best team in the world against opposition who let them play. And we get hammered. Do you remember who was losing finalist five years ago?
But failure brings bigger problems. When I first started watching football, Torquay were bottom of the 3rd Division (South) virtually every year. NO relegation - it went to a vote of the league clubs who stayed in or went out. They stayed in . Nowadays, finish bottom three in the Prem and there's a twenty/thirty million pound fine!!!!!!
You want Utopia? Dead Easy. A new league- G14, divisions? one to start. ALL TV revenue to be shared equally; no relegation. Salary cap per club. Then div 2 - same shares/caps etc. In other words -take the financial fear out of losing. Keep feeder teams in the championship or prem if you want. But without Utd and Arsenal and Liverpool, the prem would be really competitive. Oh! and all clubs to be financially solvent without outside resources!
Then you would have absolute competition. Tinker with the rules. TV replays, two refs whatever you want. Retrospective punishments. Never mind - the ref didn't spot it! Robben dive - 6 match ban and next match you are reduced to ten players at the actual time of the offence - Figo head butt 10 match ban. Drogba - no Capital Punishment's a bit harsh. You won't get this with FIFA but you would get it with your own set -up.
Would it work? Only thing that worries me is stagnation. That's why you must have a league set-up but WITHOUT financial penalties. Best football we ever played was in the old div2. And, the super league didn't work in the USA. I'd rather see Lyon than Everton but would you?

[onenedkelly]

Well thought out mate, good read and from a FOOTBALL fan, thing is it's no longer a game of the fans, it doesn't belong to us anymore, if we don't turn up for games it's irrelevant cos they get televised and when TV contracts outsold the gate receipts our needs as paying customers became irrelevant, competetive games is what we ask for as paying fans but were not neccesarily given it.

Sure fans of the relegated teams would rather their team went into every game with the belief they could win rather then the belief they really can't AFFORD to lose.

Second time Ive mentioned the Italian league this morning and I'll make it my last but look at gate receipts for Serie A last season The italian league lost it's competive edge and is nearly in ruins only 2 or 3 teams capable of winning it and the fans truned their backs. On top of that and the shannigans with outside betting the games lost whatever it was Italian football contributed to it.

Last season the Premiership gate receipts at the less successfull clubs fell dramatically, who is gonna pay good money to watch their team try and hold out for a draw at home?

Count yourself lucky your a United fan I know good mates of mine who are Blue through and through who are losing the plot with it all and are refusing to pay money to go and watch their team when the club has no ambition, something 5 years ago they would never even have contemplated.

Football is a Business first and a competetive sport second, lets just hope it doesn't go the way Serie A has

chiff said:

It's an interesting philosophy - worthy and full of ideals - but really misses the whole point about competition in today's world. What has changed in my considerable lifetime is the "dishonour in defeat". What has emerged with massive financial differentials between success and failure is not so much a win at all costs attitude but a complete fear of losing. And that brings negativity - cheats and all.
Utd. are my team. I want them to win but more importantly I want them to play to their potential. And I want the players we have to want to play for Utd. Much as I criticise them, I want players like Scholes and Giggs and especially Gary Neville to play for me. I have always enjoyed the ideals behind the way we play - except perhaps the Sexton Era - and no more so when Tommy Doc was manager. And really in those days we won nowt. SAF came along and changed all that and we started winning things so many of todays fans know no different.
But supposing I was a "blue". What would be my wishes? To beat Utd of course. How? Do I care? Not in the slightest. FInd me a team that can kill a game, frustrate and then score one goal and we win; whoopeeeee! Then we take it a stage further - get Roo frustrated, he makes a bad tackle, we roll around fifteen times and he gets sent off. Don't forget we're still a City fan - how do we feel? Bloody great. Or do we do a Wigan? We're in the first final ever and we go out there to play nice football and we get taken apart by probably the best team in the world against opposition who let them play. And we get hammered. Do you remember who was losing finalist five years ago?
But failure brings bigger problems. When I first started watching football, Torquay were bottom of the 3rd Division (South) virtually every year. NO relegation - it went to a vote of the league clubs who stayed in or went out. They stayed in . Nowadays, finish bottom three in the Prem and there's a twenty/thirty million pound fine!!!!!!
You want Utopia? Dead Easy. A new league- G14, divisions? one to start. ALL TV revenue to be shared equally; no relegation. Salary cap per club. Then div 2 - same shares/caps etc. In other words -take the financial fear out of losing. Keep feeder teams in the championship or prem if you want. But without Utd and Arsenal and Liverpool, the prem would be really competitive. Oh! and all clubs to be financially solvent without outside resources!
Then you would have absolute competition. Tinker with the rules. TV replays, two refs whatever you want. Retrospective punishments. Never mind - the ref didn't spot it! Robben dive - 6 match ban and next match you are reduced to ten players at the actual time of the offence - Figo head butt 10 match ban. Drogba - no Capital Punishment's a bit harsh. You won't get this with FIFA but you would get it with your own set -up.
Would it work? Only thing that worries me is stagnation. That's why you must have a league set-up but WITHOUT financial penalties. Best football we ever played was in the old div2. And, the super league didn't work in the USA. I'd rather see Lyon than Everton but would you?

[sahahaha]

Great read again mate! The Joga bonito adverts are a great idea, but not when the players in the adverts are divers and cheats themselves! I saw one particular advert yesterday with Henry , he was on the streets of France playing street football, here's a quote from Eric during the advert (campaign against cheaters ect who ruin the game) "people have forgotten what honour is, but not here. On the streets you cannot hide behind the refs call. Your feet have to do all the talking. Here dribblers are the kings, divers are thrown into the pits. What kind of messege does it send when after that we have this img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/sahahaha/henry2.jpg So to be honest in answer to your question, I think it is just wishfull thinking, for now atleast.

I also disagree with the idea that, it's ok to cheat or win ugly as long as you win. Well I've waited years to watch England win the world cup, and if it happened by us diving in the box while Joe cole is apealing to get a player sent off, i'd be gutted. What an anti-climax. To be honest i'd rather wait another 40 years to win it properly, winning with honour and pride. Players like Drogba who may not "be crying in to his pillow thinking about how he controlled the ball with his arm before scoring" will still allways be remembered as ceats, and never as greats. The same can be said for Mourinho's tactics, both are effective and Morally questionable, but will never be held in the same regard as players like Giggs and teams like Utd's.

He will lose against Federer, I've no doubt about it but still he'll do so with pride and honour! Come on Tim!