One last question

[chiff]

It's over but at the end of it all, did we learn anything POSITIVE from the wreckage. We know what not to do but as someone said in another thread, does a guy like McClaren who has so little experience have the ability to learn.
We learned a bit about Lennon - but he's not THAT good yet
Rio and Terry are OK
We need another keeper but who?
Crouch is not as BAD as we thought but he's not world class.
Hargreaves played ok

It's not exactly promising is it?

[onenedkelly]

I spent weeks and weeks prior to the build up gettin interested in England and the World Cup only for shabby performances to put all that time to waste.

I have no optimism whatsoever of Mclaren

chiff said:

It's over but at the end of it all, did we learn anything POSITIVE from the wreckage. We know what not to do but as someone said in another thread, does a guy like McClaren who has so little experience have the ability to learn.
We learned a bit about Lennon - but he's not THAT good yet
Rio and Terry are OK
We need another keeper but who?
Crouch is not as BAD as we thought but he's not world class.
Hargreaves played ok

It's not exactly promising is it?

[rewdie]

Robbo isnt that bad! And there isnt a better English keeper around YET

Hargreaves s more than OK hes owed an apology from everyone

We learned Lampard is a bottle and total shit, i thought he was guna thro up when he went to take his penalty he looked so scared and nervous, its why chelsea signed Ballack, Lampard will never do anything in Europe.

Terry is average, again made to look good by chelseas millions

Crocuh still annoys me, no idea he just does, but he isnt as big a joke as before

Becks isnt the player he used to be, though will be handy for the bench to come on late for set pieces and fresh legs

I'll always support England, im English so hey, blind patriotism maybe but there ya go

[onenedkelly]

I'll argue the toss on one point

John Terry = Best Centre in the Premiership bar Rio Ferdinand.

rewdie said:

Robbo isnt that bad! And there isnt a better English keeper around YET

Hargreaves s more than OK hes owed an apology from everyone

We learned Lampard is a bottle and total shit, i thought he was guna thro up when he went to take his penalty he looked so scared and nervous, its why chelsea signed Ballack, Lampard will never do anything in Europe.

Terry is average, again made to look good by chelseas millions

Crocuh still annoys me, no idea he just does, but he isnt as big a joke as before

Becks isnt the player he used to be, though will be handy for the bench to come on late for set pieces and fresh legs

I'll always support England, im English so hey, blind patriotism maybe but there ya go

[rewdie]

Im not convinced, looked average but he is a good cb, just not what everyone makes him out to be

[chiff]

True about Robbo but the same could be said about "Our Darren" we've got nobody better. And you wouldn't want to leave it at that would you.
Agree about Fat Frank. I've never rated him BUT he kept scoring goals. 5 yards 25 yards and that earned some respect. Similarly, I don't think Gerrard is world class; good but in this tournament not in the top ten. But there is no way that either of them caould play in the Beckhamised midfield set-up.
Terry's OK - lots better than Campbell and, I think the others have a lot of catching up to do. Anyway, he'll be captain - though it should be Gary - and that's a guarantee of 4 years in the side.
But all of this is negative. We're not saying "we were crap - but thingy's going to be great" or " he'll be brilliant in two years". The legacy of Erickson is we've got a now and not a lot coming. Look at the U-21's and they're nobodies in the prem. Players play for them before they are regulars in the 1st team. No wonder he took Walcott. Perhaps you can blame it on the Arsenals for not playing Englishmen or the Utd supporters who want success now, not later so we want Gattuso rather than wait for a Fletcher to improve(OK but you know what I mean) or we are looking at a Polish keeper and not throwing Foster to the wolves. But the fact remains that we are not helping either

[rewdie]

Totaly agreed Chiff,

And just imagine what the situtaion will be like 5 years down the road, Becks gone, Rio will be old, Lamps gone, Owen will be retired through injury or gone 30 anyway

And who will take their place? Do we see any teams bringing up what look to be great English prospects?

its why the FA NEED to enforce a rule where every premiership club must have at LEAST 5 English or at least British, named in their 16 on a match day, or the English game is going to die, we cant keep shopping elsewhere, we have perfectly good talent here we just dont bother unearthing it!
This goes back to my post about scouts, i know weve found some great players, Robben, Obi, Essien, Pique, Rossi etc etc but, which of them are able to be turned into a player to star for England? None, we need to get the Lennons and Beckhams and Rooneys, Owens and Scholes, instead of just buying foriegners more and more

If every club had to field English players no one could complain it ruins their game becase everyone else had to and at least 100 Englishmen/British players will be played week in week out in the Premierleague, it would make clubs rely on their youth system more and bring up more talent, also saving everyone alot of money.....

[roonaldo]

I disagree, I don't think clubs should sacrifice their success for the good of their country. For starters most of the top managers are not even English, why should Mourinho, Wenger, Fergie, Benitez, etc care about the England national team? They have nothing to gain from playing English players and possibly everything to lose.

If the FA do force these rules then I think we will see a lot of the top managers in the world leaving the Premiership to go to Spain, Italy, etc, because the whole point of managing a club and not a country is that you don't have restrictions on who you can buy or play.

And if the top managers ended up leaving it would be a lot harder to attract top players to the Premiership, and the quality of the league would be severely reduced. I mean can you imagine if the Premiership didn't have Ronaldo, Heinze, Van Nistelrooy, Henry, van der Sar, Ballack, Shevchenko, Crespo, Robben, Reyes, van Persie, etc.

Yes you would see a lot more English players being played week in week out and we would think they are good because they are not being compared to players of the calibre mentioned above, but instead being compared to lesser English players. We would then think all English players are amazing by not comparing them to anyone else and when it comes to big tournaments we would realise it.

I mean these managers aren't stupid, they wouldn't not play a player just because he is English, they want the best and if the best is English they will pick him. All players get the same chance in the youth systems of their respective clubs and if the manager thinks that Rossi is better than Jones or something then hes probably right.

The only difference between England and other nations is that players from other nations such as Spain, Holland, Argentina, Brazil, are all willing to leave their countries to get a chance to make it in football, whereas English players are more reluctant to move, and that maybe hampers their chances.

Henry and Vieira both went to Juventus when young and made it, Ronaldinho went to France, Cristiano Ronaldo has come to England. The only English player to leave at a young age is Hargreaves.

I know thats long but what I'm trying to say is dont blame the clubs and managers, immediate success is expected and thats what they try to give.

When Ferguson first joined United he was given lots of time to build his squad and it paid off. If he had retired after 99 and a new manager had done what he has done since then, he would have been sacked by now. The only team I can see building a good squad based around English players is Tottenham, and possibly United.

[unitedinhardcore]

i dont want a limit on foreigners. i want to see the best team that SAF can put out.
i remember all the restrictions in the early nineties in europe when we could only have 5 (or 3 foreign and 4 from the british isles i think) so we had to pick which were the most important foreigners and pad the team around them
this meant that the team we saw on saturday playing great football wasnt the team we saw on wednesday struggling to play as a team.