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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 0:30:28 GMT
Post by moxdevil on May 12, 2012 0:30:28 GMT
The fact that he and is agent aren't saying that Kagawa wants to play for Dortmund for life suggests to me that he is a mercenary. Perhaps i haven't yet accepted the realities of modern football. Do we want such a player and his agent at United? Just saying. Satire? If not there is a difference between being a mercenary and furthering your career. Take Manuel Neuer for instance, to use a Germany-based example. He was at Schalke, his boyhood and hometown club. Then he moved to Bayern Munich, the biggest team in Germany. Is he a mercenary? Just for this example and no others. I expect in the eyes of Schalke fans he is considered a mercenary. And for that matter to some Bayern fans also. Considering the actions he made towards Bayern whilst playing for Schalke before signing for them - such as the Oliver Khan imitation - the reason why he is disliked by many Bayern fans. Does the fact that he has shown previous antipathy towards a club and then signed for them suggest he isn't a mercenary as football fans understand the term? |
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 4:49:55 GMT
Post by redcase on May 12, 2012 4:49:55 GMT
Mox, if you look at it in such black and white terms, nearly every footballer is a mercenary apart from a solitary 5% or so. I don't think saying you want to move to another club is merc material, the way you go about it determines that. If you say I want to leave next summer and then do all the sorting out quietly and in a dignified manner without antagonising fans and members associated with the club you played for, then I guess you just gotta go. But if you pull shit like Pogba and his agent, or even to an extent Hazard, when he whored himself out to the media by saying I like red and blue but i will be wearing blue next season, that shit just pisses me off and I think that qualifies as merc material. Of course I am discounting players that keep moving from club to club every 2-3 years in this statement, they are automatic mercs because they justify the simplest meaning of a merc.
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 7:48:48 GMT
Post by SAF_Legend on May 12, 2012 7:48:48 GMT
I think there's 3 groups of players in terms of loyalty. The loyal ones who play for the club / team, fans and love for football... then there's the other extreme, mercenaries, who play for the coin, fame and love for himself. Then there's the ones down in the middle, normal, grey area - I assume most players are in these grey areas. The grey areas are just footballers being like us normal folks, keeping an eye out for our livelihood and will consider other jobs if there are higher incentives.
For example, Giggs, Scholes are in the loyal group. Tevez, Hazard are mercenaries. At the moment, I would see Kagawa as the normal grey area. At least what he has done is not to sell himself to everywhere, and left it to his agent to do it as discreetly as possible. The player still does his job professionally and doesn't openly say things like "Red or blue both suits me" nor discuss his future ahead of his current job in detail. He understands that he is still currently under contract with Dortmund and he also has made it a point to say that he will sort it out with them.
The thing that comes into mind is also how players react when media comes along sniffing away at your feet. I thought Kagawa has done okay till now.
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 8:08:36 GMT
Post by reddub on May 12, 2012 8:08:36 GMT
Just a reminder- highlights of the German Cup final are on ESPN tonight 11pm-12am, if you want to have a look at Kagawa in action.
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 8:31:50 GMT
Post by mightyez on May 12, 2012 8:31:50 GMT
have i misse something in my absence from earth.
a player is bought, does his job and very well and is now on bigger teams radars in fact thee biggest club in the worlds radar.
has a year left, his current team offer him a new deal, he privately rejects.
all that equates to mercenary?
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 9:48:21 GMT
Post by Bestie on May 12, 2012 9:48:21 GMT
Satire? If not there is a difference between being a mercenary and furthering your career. Take Manuel Neuer for instance, to use a Germany-based example. He was at Schalke, his boyhood and hometown club. Then he moved to Bayern Munich, the biggest team in Germany. Is he a mercenary? Just for this example and no others. I expect in the eyes of Schalke fans he is considered a mercenary. And for that matter to some Bayern fans also. Considering the actions he made towards Bayern whilst playing for Schalke before signing for them - such as the Oliver Khan imitation - the reason why he is disliked by many Bayern fans. Does the fact that he has shown previous antipathy towards a club and then signed for them suggest he isn't a mercenary as football fans understand the term? I didn't say 'in the eyes of Schalke fans', I asked you. In your opinion, considering everything, is Neuer a mercenary? Or, staying with the goalkeepers' examples, Schmikes. Is he a mercenary? He 'retired' from United, club hopped for a bit, then arrived at Mancheser City - our rivals. Would you consider him a merc? Overall I really don't think it's fair to even suggest Kagawa is anywhere near the same category as Tevez or Hazard or Yaya Toure. All we know is that Kagawa has decided not to renew his contract next year, any quotes about a move have been made up. @ 'Dub - Is the full final not on ESPN today? I thought it was, and was looking forward to it! |
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 10:01:24 GMT
Post by mightyez on May 12, 2012 10:01:24 GMT
interestn on toure bestie, by all accounts barca wanted to sell him, due to busquets who in my opinion cant lace his boots.
i mean dont get me wrong the money he got offered definetly influenced his move to citeh but you can also say he got the best deal available when barca wanted to sell him
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 10:28:30 GMT
Post by Bestie on May 12, 2012 10:28:30 GMT
interestn on toure bestie, by all accounts barca wanted to sell him, due to busquets who in my opinion cant lace his boots. i mean dont get me wrong the money he got offered definetly influenced his move to citeh but you can also say he got the best deal available when barca wanted to sell him He went from Barcelona to Manchester City, before City had done anything. Hell, they were still losing to us in Carling Cup semi-final's at that stage. His move was purely for the money, and the knowledge of even more money to come. Because it certainly wasn't for footballing reasons. No self-respecting footballer went to City before they got a massive injection of cash. Shame really, I would have loved Yaya Toure in a United shirt, loved him at Barca and was gutted when he went to Stockport. |
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 10:31:39 GMT
Post by mightyez on May 12, 2012 10:31:39 GMT
yeah your right.
i also would have wnted him with us as he is a beast of a player
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 10:59:04 GMT
Post by moxdevil on May 12, 2012 10:59:04 GMT
Just for this example and no others. I expect in the eyes of Schalke fans he is considered a mercenary. And for that matter to some Bayern fans also. Considering the actions he made towards Bayern whilst playing for Schalke before signing for them - such as the Oliver Khan imitation - the reason why he is disliked by many Bayern fans. Does the fact that he has shown previous antipathy towards a club and then signed for them suggest he isn't a mercenary as football fans understand the term? I didn't say 'in the eyes of Schalke fans', I asked you. In your opinion, considering everything, is Neuer a mercenary? Or, staying with the goalkeepers' examples, Schmikes. Is he a mercenary? He 'retired' from United, club hopped for a bit, then arrived at Mancheser City - our rivals. Would you consider him a merc? Overall I really don't think it's fair to even suggest Kagawa is anywhere near the same category as Tevez or Hazard or Yaya Toure. All we know is that Kagawa has decided not to renew his contract next year, any quotes about a move have been made up. Neuer is a mercenary. Neuer is typical of the modern footballer. As is Kagawa, as is Pogba. My first comment was satire - I accepted the realities of modern football and footballers a long time ago therefore i don't get excitable on displays of loyalty or the lack of when a player doesn't want to stay at our club or when a footballer wants to move on. |
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 11:24:14 GMT
Post by fletchabey on May 12, 2012 11:24:14 GMT
Its not vastly different from any other job though, people are free to change up and move on and people do all the time. Traitors and mercenaries the lot of us. Where's the loyalty?
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 11:25:25 GMT
Post by jimbonda on May 12, 2012 11:25:25 GMT
I think there's 3 groups of players in terms of loyalty. The loyal ones who play for the club / team, fans and love for football... then there's the other extreme, mercenaries, who play for the coin, fame and love for himself. Then there's the ones down in the middle, normal, grey area - I assume most players are in these grey areas. The grey areas are just footballers being like us normal folks, keeping an eye out for our livelihood and will consider other jobs if there are higher incentives. For example, Giggs, Scholes are in the loyal group. Tevez, Hazard are mercenaries. At the moment, I would see Kagawa as the normal grey area. At least what he has done is not to sell himself to everywhere, and left it to his agent to do it as discreetly as possible. The player still does his job professionally and doesn't openly say things like "Red or blue both suits me" nor discuss his future ahead of his current job in detail. He understands that he is still currently under contract with Dortmund and he also has made it a point to say that he will sort it out with them. The thing that comes into mind is also how players react when media comes along sniffing away at your feet. I thought Kagawa has done okay till now. yeah think this is largely true. as long as the guys in the second tier - the grey area - handle their business with class then i have no problem. i hate it when players announce they will be playing for another club before a deal has even been done [which is why i'm glad the kagawa quotes of that effect are fakes] - totally unnecessary. let the deal happen before you open your mouth, just a proper slap in the face to the supporters of the current club. alarm bells ring for me when any player does this |
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 11:40:47 GMT
Post by reddub on May 12, 2012 11:40:47 GMT
Bestie, apologies..yeah the German Cup final is on ESPN tonight 11pm - 1am. I was looking at a misprint, i've double checked, so we'll be able to see Kagawa play the full game, great.
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 11:42:04 GMT
Post by jimbonda on May 12, 2012 11:42:04 GMT
i might have to watch that game tonight
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Kagawa
May 12, 2012 11:46:32 GMT
Post by moxdevil on May 12, 2012 11:46:32 GMT
Its not vastly different from any other job though, people are free to change up and move on and people do all the time. Traitors and mercenaries the lot of us. Where's the loyalty? That's the point there is little difference to any other job. Players in the most will only show loyalty to their employer whilst their situation is good for them. The fans have emotional investment in the clubs and the players in the main cannot afford to. |
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