9/11

[Rene Meulensteen]

Sept 11, 2012 9:29:54 GMT Carbon said:

Sept 10, 2012 12:24:54 GMT tommyred said:

Definitely eh?

Yes. Too many things wrong with the whole situation.

People seeing grey cargo planes rather than passenger jets, pillars at the base of the buildings all cut at 45 degree angles, both towers coming down in a fashion more like a controlled demolition to save more damage to surrounding buildings, wt7 (i think it was that one) also coming down in the same fashion with no planes hitting it, the owner of the towers taking out a 7 billion dollar insurance policy covering this exact 'incident' months before the event, the rubble being instantly taken away and disposed of - imagine that in a murder investigation? the list goes on and on

The families of the victims on the planes would beg to differ with that! Definitely one of the 'conspiracy theories' I definitely don't agree with.

[jimbonda]

i watched that loose change doc. the arguments pointing to a conspiracy are numerous and pretty interesting.

trouble is there is no-one to argue the toss. i would like to see a question time style panel of experts discussing each point objectively. never going to happen though is it

[Rene Meulensteen]

No never going to happen unfortunately.

Just watching the News coverage as it happened on youtube, minute by minute. Crazy watching it again and the news filtering through about what happened.

[SAF_Legend]

R.I.P.

Saw this comment by Carbon which is interesting:

Sept 11, 2012 9:29:54 GMT Carbon said:

Sept 10, 2012 12:24:54 GMT tommyred said:

Definitely eh?

Yes. Too many things wrong with the whole situation.

People seeing grey cargo planes rather than passenger jets, pillars at the base of the buildings all cut at 45 degree angles, both towers coming down in a fashion more like a controlled demolition to save more damage to surrounding buildings, wt7 (i think it was that one) also coming down in the same fashion with no planes hitting it, the owner of the towers taking out a 7 billion dollar insurance policy covering this exact 'incident' months before the event, the rubble being instantly taken away and disposed of - imagine that in a murder investigation? the list goes on and on

There are always many evidences for, and against.

You mentioned people saw "grey cargo planes" flying into the towers - can you explain the missing and destroyed passenger planes then? Is it logical that the American Government actually cold out murdered all the passengers and destroyed the passenger plane which supposedly was hijacked just to use cargo planes to crash in a "controlled" fashion? This is just conjecture, but the American passenger planes were in blue and grey - grey on the underside, and possibly the most visible part of the plane. Not to mention that large chunks of the remaining planes can be found in the rubble. Also, the crash caused a hell load of pollution - which needed to be cleared for the safety of the population. Also try to remember that this is right smack in the middle of a CBD of New York City - one of the most populous cities in the world. Removing debris should always be considered to be of great importance mainly to allow people to get back to work ASAP (as was with London bombings) - as we all know, in a time of crisis especially, everyday of loss work, is a hell tons of money lost.

7 billion (or however much in billions) insurance is also very much less than multiple trillions of dollars worth of re-investment - not only in terms of the loss of victims lives, but their distraught families; also in terms of time for the rebuilding, the major significant losses of business, international confidence and economic growth due to the destruction, as well as the war later on. Are we all forgetting that the US is currently holding on to the most amount of debt? They are currently facing some bad times now as well.

About the WTC being insured, surely then why not destroy other insured monumental buildings with less people / less deaths, and less cost? Why WTC? Why the Pentagon. Why are they targeting their own most important structures? Also is anyone thinking if this is a operated mission, why did the 4th plane crash out in the middle of "nowhere"?

If I were a Government looking to gain impetus and monetary gain... I would rather destroy something else less important, but insured for larger amounts of money. Something(s) more symbolic, and less of strategic importance with less loss of lives (not thousands of probably the most competent in the heart of New York city!). I also wouldn't hijack my own national airline and cost every airport to halt flights, disrupt days / weeks / months of business - also dampening foreign tourist trust and amount of travel and trust with American flights (which - even till today, a lot of people prefer not to use American ones). The after effects are too long-term, too destructive, for any Government to even ponder about this. There is absolutely no gain for the American Government to have "done" this. A casus belli / reason to attack Iraq and Afghanistan is definitely not worth all this. A short-term gain (which is not even a gain to be fair), for a long-term loss.

Bush might be classified as "stupid" - but I'm darn well sure he's tons loads smarter than a whole bunch of us in this forum, if not all. People only say he's "stupid", but we're his standard of "stupidity" is actually compared to Presidents, and high elites. Even if he's a dimwit, his administration, and certainly, the military, the CIA, the secret service, etc etc etc isn't dimwitted enough to cripple the American economy like that... for a casus belli, national pride and some short change which can't even cover the cost of the destruction.

I can understand Vidic>Superman's notion that the Government did not stop the event from happening - but in this case, I think people tend to keep seeing things they want to see , but there is a need to consider the opposite logic (in effect, this includes me). We can always attach reasons to "how" things are done... but there must be a logic as to "why" they are done.

Lastly, I wish to emphasise this; it's simply too big a secret for anyone to keep hush.

You know what I think sometimes - I think sometimes, some people are trying to profit from this event, for fame and monetary gains. Documentaries, movies and shows on prime time television, books even. I'm not entirely sure if people who started all these theories really truly believe in them - that, is my own "conspiracy theory". And this, in turn, disgusts me if it's true.

[Stew]

I agree with Atlantas and I'm fond of a conspiracy. The loose change doc that everyone was going crazy about when it came out was pretty well dismantled if i remember correctly? Tho the other side will repudiate that as well.

For me it's a huge tragedy that the memory of the people that died in 9/11 was tarnished by the invasion of Iraq on such flimsy evidence that was shown up to be completely unfounded. At least there was a justifiable reason for Afganistan but Iraq was simply a disgrace.

[Rene Meulensteen]

Must say theres a pretty distinct lack of news in the media today (that I can see) of anything to do with this today which is quite frankly shocking.

[SAF_Legend]

Just want to share this - "Children of 9/11". Documentary about the children of the victims.

More than 3,000 in total died on 9/11... more than 3,051 children were left either motherless, fatherless or parent-less.

Only able to find the Australian version (Aussie narrator) on youtube:

[Tatty]

Sept 11, 2012 12:44:58 GMT Rene Meulensteen said:

Must say theres a pretty distinct lack of news in the media today (that I can see) of anything to do with this today which is quite frankly shocking.

It was 11 years ago. The world moves on.

[jimbonda]

agree with that to an extent bojangles. the ten year anniversary was a big deal, so will the 20 year etc. you can't expect heavy coverage every year.

al - that last doc you posted up looks depressing as fook. will be giving that a miss

[SAF_Legend]

Sept 11, 2012 17:13:54 GMT jimbonda said:

agree with that to an extent bojangles. the ten year anniversary was a big deal, so will the 20 year etc. you can't expect heavy coverage every year.

al - that last doc you posted up looks depressing as fook. will be giving that a miss

Well... it IS about 9/11 - which is "depressing as fook"

It does have happier moments though, as it tells how families cope and move on 10 years (documentary came out last year) from the event. But yeah, give it a miss if you want to save a tear or two. "Life is depressing as it is" as a friend once told me. lol

They do still commemorate 9/11 every-year, Renemeulensteen - it's good remembrance, and I think everyone else notices in one way or another, but I agree with Jim and Tatty, life has to move on.

[king nothing]

The thing is there will be more victims in the years to come through diesease's,can you imagine the amount of asbestos which was used in the construction of the towers?There must have been thousands of folk breathing in all that shit for weeks after ther event scary shit.

I watched the film the two french brothers made,very hard to sit through just typing this makes me shudder but when they are in the lobby and you hear the bodies crashing on the foyer roof that will stay with me forever.
Without seeing the towers in real life it's hard too imagine the size of them, and how many more could have lost their lives if the attacks where an hour or two later when they would have been full??

[Stew]

Yeah I'll never forget the sound of the bodies hitting the ground in that movie. Awful.

[Bestie]

My da just reminded me. It wasn't 6 weeks that we were there before. It was four. FFS, preferred 6 to be honest.

[shrike59]

Alalantis, thank you for the interesting reading. I dont believe in the conspiracy theories either. It would have to come out sooner or later.Same with the nonsense obama wasnt born in america,a fortune [pulitzer prize] could be made if it was proven he wasnt and you know the rich republicans wouldve found it out! But I still run ino educated people who think he is an african born muslim!

[SAF_Legend]

Sept 17, 2012 1:38:37 GMT shrike59 said:

Alalantis, thank you for the interesting reading. I dont believe in the conspiracy theories either. It would have to come out sooner or later.Same with the nonsense obama wasnt born in america,a fortune [pulitzer prize] could be made if it was proven he wasnt and you know the rich republicans wouldve found it out! But I still run ino educated people who think he is an african born muslim!

My pleasure I thought Vidic>Superman made some good claims too. It's always interesting to hear the other side of the story or doubts within a story and have a decent discussion about it.