|
Post by juanveron on May 31, 2021 5:06:03 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. The question that must be asked is how likely are we to win the league with Ole as our manager? I don’t think we can. Top 4 next season is still the best I can see us doing - even if we sign Sancho and Torres - and it will also greatly depend on other sides having poor seasons again.
|
|
|
Post by redcase on May 31, 2021 5:43:09 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. If he continues to make shocking decisions, and he is, then is he really doing a decent job? If he is taking the squad as far as his own abilities, but not as far as the squad potential, is he doing a decent job? I think the answer to both is a resounding no.
|
|
|
Post by Stretty on May 31, 2021 7:25:49 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. He’s done ok but if we want to be at the top table of football again then we need an upgrade on him
|
|
|
Post by Bestie on May 31, 2021 9:05:05 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. It would be reasonable to say Ole has not been the absolute worst in terms of football/results (Moyes) or as damaging in transfers (van Gaal). Decent is a long way off though. The nadir of his work has been the constant lowering of expectations and active promotion of mediocrity - both in results and players. Top reds now have a perfect excuse to accept failure: The manager does.
|
|
|
Post by Rustin Cohle on May 31, 2021 9:31:40 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. I agree to an extent. I didn't really want him in the first place, but he has definitely improved us. We're better than we were after Jose imploded, have brought through and improved some key players, and have even managed to get rid of some (not all) of the deadwood which was so important. He has a clear plan for the club off the pitch, just not one on it beyond countering. That just isn't good enough now, even if he did help with other aspects of the club. And his transfers have been very hit and miss too (with the only 100% hit being Fernandes, though I'd certainly say AWB has been a good purchase too, and Cavani).
|
|
|
Post by viking22 on May 31, 2021 10:01:47 GMT
He was hired as a caretaker manager and has restored morale and steadied the ship. But I think that job was completed really last summer and by keeping him on we were setting him up to fail.
I don't think last season was massively impressive. We lost in three semi-finals and if it wasn't for Bruno's arrival and our subsequent turnaround in form we wouldn't have made top 4. But the doom and gloom of Jose's final days had lifted and getting back into the top 4 was the first step in recovering the ground lost. So it was progress but it should have been obvious that it was time to kick on and win things and hire an experienced coach while thanking Ole for the job he'd done for us.
This season has really shown up Ole's limitations. There was the failure to navigate the CL group stages. The title challenge that ended before it even began with Ole ruling us out in January and then letting City take a double digit points lead and blowing numerous opportunities to cut that down. The terrible record against other big teams. All the goals conceded via set pieces. Getting knocked out of the domestic cups. Getting beaten by Villareal in the final. And of course the stream of embarassing comments to the media. And the endless excuses about fixture congestion and referees and then basically blaming the players last week for not turning up and demanding new signings so he can challenge for trophies (even though his predecessors won trophies with much weaker squads). And this crap about progress and how we are getting closer. It makes it really difficult to like the man.
At many other big clubs this catalogue of failures would have got him the sack. Especially as there are some decent options out there such as Zidane, Conte, Pochettino etc.
|
|
|
Post by anti_social on May 31, 2021 11:14:39 GMT
We can analyse this into infinity re: transfers etc but the real problem is how many of our idiotic fanbase are still buying into the “progress” narrative - about 50% at least I’d say. Someone I know, who is normally a fairly intelligent and very passionate fan, thinks “Top Reds” are the people supporting the protests ffs. Because they’re ruining the match day experience for people who “want to get behind the team”. Add to that the tourists and the appalling social media fanbase and it gets even bleaker. This is basically the Glazers’ vote bank, and as long as there are enough imbeciles thinking achieving 2nd - but clearly miles off target - is good enough we are royally screwed going forward. It’s insanely depressing. Be more than 50% I reckon, much more. A lot of my friends are Newcastle fans, I know some who have turned their backs on the club until Ashley leaves, but the absolute vast majority just give it the "Support the club not the owner" rhetoric and plod along week in week out. United are the same I'm afraid. Absolutely blind to the solutions, all they can see is the short term damage to the team so continue to be happy clappers going along and cheering away. It's why I said, in jest I have to say, that I'm torn on whether I want United to sign the likes of Sancho, as it's just prolonging the pain. I'm joking really, of course I want to see players like that come in, but it's the same kind of thing, someone like Sancho and maybe a Torres would be just enough to secure top 4 whilst also locking Ole into his job and making sure no actual title challenge is possible. And that's fine by the Glazers because the majority of supporters will still "Support the club". You’re absolutely right, on all the above points.
|
|
|
Post by safariRed on May 31, 2021 12:11:53 GMT
He was hired as a caretaker manager and has restored morale and steadied the ship. But I think that job was completed really last summer and by keeping him on we were setting him up to fail. I don't think last season was massively impressive. We lost in three semi-finals and if it wasn't for Bruno's arrival and our subsequent turnaround in form we wouldn't have made top 4. But the doom and gloom of Jose's final days had lifted and getting back into the top 4 was the first step in recovering the ground lost. So it was progress but it should have been obvious that it was time to kick on and win things and hire an experienced coach while thanking Ole for the job he'd done for us. This season has really shown up Ole's limitations. There was the failure to navigate the CL group stages. The title challenge that ended before it even began with Ole ruling us out in January and then letting City take a double digit points lead and blowing numerous opportunities to cut that down. The terrible record against other big teams. All the goals conceded via set pieces. Getting knocked out of the domestic cups. Getting beaten by Villareal in the final. And of course the stream of embarassing comments to the media. And the endless excuses about fixture congestion and referees and then basically blaming the players last week for not turning up and demanding new signings so he can challenge for trophies (even though his predecessors won trophies with much weaker squads). And this crap about progress and how we are getting closer. It makes it really difficult to like the man. At many other big clubs this catalogue of failures would have got him the sack. Especially as there are some decent options out there such as Zidane, Conte, Pochettino etc. This is what's most frustrating....He will not get another Premier League job if we sack him. We're the only 'big club' willing to live with the catalogue of failures. fucking 7th in La Liga Villarreal..
|
|
|
Post by Stew on May 31, 2021 12:36:56 GMT
Am I allowed to think Ole has done a decent job, whilst taking this squad as far as his abilities allow, whilst also making some absolutely shocking decisions? As I feel that’s the correct Ole narrative. This is it totally for me. He’s done ok, relatively speaking, but there’s little to suggest things are going to improve drastically, which is what is going to be required.
|
|
|
Post by Stew on May 31, 2021 12:38:25 GMT
He was hired as a caretaker manager and has restored morale and steadied the ship. But I think that job was completed really last summer and by keeping him on we were setting him up to fail. I don't think last season was massively impressive. We lost in three semi-finals and if it wasn't for Bruno's arrival and our subsequent turnaround in form we wouldn't have made top 4. But the doom and gloom of Jose's final days had lifted and getting back into the top 4 was the first step in recovering the ground lost. So it was progress but it should have been obvious that it was time to kick on and win things and hire an experienced coach while thanking Ole for the job he'd done for us. This season has really shown up Ole's limitations. There was the failure to navigate the CL group stages. The title challenge that ended before it even began with Ole ruling us out in January and then letting City take a double digit points lead and blowing numerous opportunities to cut that down. The terrible record against other big teams. All the goals conceded via set pieces. Getting knocked out of the domestic cups. Getting beaten by Villareal in the final. And of course the stream of embarassing comments to the media. And the endless excuses about fixture congestion and referees and then basically blaming the players last week for not turning up and demanding new signings so he can challenge for trophies (even though his predecessors won trophies with much weaker squads). And this crap about progress and how we are getting closer. It makes it really difficult to like the man. At many other big clubs this catalogue of failures would have got him the sack. Especially as there are some decent options out there such as Zidane, Conte, Pochettino etc. This is what's most frustrating....He will not get another Premier League job if we sack him. We're the only 'big club' willing to live with the catalogue of failures. fucking 7th in La Liga Villarreal.. He might get another job in the Prem but it’d be similar to the ones that Lampard is getting linked to, Palace and the like. The big boys are absolutely not coming calling again anytime soon, that’s for certain.
|
|
|
Post by Rustin Cohle on May 31, 2021 15:31:37 GMT
I always think that sensible rival fans tend to have clarity that a fanbase can miss. Every rival fan I know is desperate for us to keep Ole, which speaks volumes. It's exactly the same as how we were all gutted when Chelsea swapped Lampard for Tuchel, or (the old) Rodgers for Klopp.
|
|
|
Post by Karma on May 31, 2021 17:31:42 GMT
I always think that sensible rival fans tend to have clarity that a fanbase can miss. Every rival fan I know is desperate for us to keep Ole, which speaks volumes. It's exactly the same as how we were all gutted when Chelsea swapped Lampard for Tuchel, or (the old) Rodgers for Klopp. That’s always the standard for me. Do opposition fans think we’re a credible threat while he’s here. We know the answer to that.
|
|
|
Post by mightyez on May 31, 2021 17:31:51 GMT
Special managers make average players look like really good players
I have just realised how damn good Sir Alex was, I mean let’s think about the number of squad players we had that were average but when called on functioned well and looked really really good.
It’s all good saying Ole has taken what he has as far as possible but he is an average manager! Under Fergie, Fred looks the business, lindelof too, DVB would have had games to shine in. Williams would have played more and all those players we would have teams knocking on the door to pay top money for, infact Dan James would have looked the business. That’s a special manager. The average manager we have just doesn’t do anything!
I mean say what you want about Pep but he is a special manager, champions league loss or not. Zinchenko has looked solid, cancelo’s improvement I could name 2 or 3 more that in another team would be revealed for the average players they are. If we bought Dias he would look half as good as he looks, if they bought Maguire he’d he shining.
I think this club has really forgotten what it’s about and the end result is the fact average shines all through.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on May 31, 2021 18:04:58 GMT
The M.E.N reported today that Mike Phelan is a strange assistant as, like Ole, he has no role in the coaching set up during training. Why the fuck is he in the job then? Apparently he went for the DOF role, but Ole wanted him to stay as assistant.
We really need some better coaches. So Michael Carrick is our Head coach and organises training? The fuck?
|
|
|
Post by Stretty on May 31, 2021 19:42:01 GMT
The M.E.N reported today that Mike Phelan is a strange assistant as, like Ole, he has no role in the coaching set up during training. Why the fuck is he in the job then? Apparently he went for the DOF role, but Ole wanted him to stay as assistant. We really need some better coaches. So Michael Carrick is our Head coach and organises training? The fuck? if ole has no involvement in coaching then I don’t think he does anything that anyone on here couldn’t do. pick the best 11 and hope shit happens make the odd sub after 80 minutes Also who the fuck does the coaching?
|
|