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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 20:01:32 GMT
If it is because of this injury or problem he has then he should be dropped until something is done about it. It could very well be the expectation of the "7" shirt but thats only a guess.
Simple as hes not producing the goods at anywhere near to a good enough level so he should not be featuring.
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Post by tommyred on Mar 10, 2013 20:40:32 GMT
He's never been a great player, but he used to be effective.
Now he's not effective in the slightest. He dithers constantly, he seems afraid to try and beat his man, he's forever giving the ball away and I can't remember the last good cross he put in. His confidence seems shot because he's not willing to try anything and risk conceding possession, but then he ends up giving it away anyway by dithering too long.
I'm sorry to say it but even if his form improves, we could do so much better than him.
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Post by redcase on Mar 10, 2013 21:08:20 GMT
He's never been a great player, but he used to be effective.Now he's not effective in the slightest. He dithers constantly, he seems afraid to try and beat his man, he's forever giving the ball away and I can't remember the last good cross he put in. His confidence seems shot because he's not willing to try anything and risk conceding possession, but then he ends up giving it away anyway by dithering too long. I'm sorry to say it but even if his form improves, we could do so much better than him. Been saying this for a year. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 10, 2013 21:19:35 GMT
This thread has a touch of the evans/carrick/rafael/de gea's about it
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Post by Madds Tim on Mar 10, 2013 21:55:07 GMT
Now we've had such a long period of poor performances from him, I do worry if he's veering into Torres territory. By that I mean a player who relied on speed and physical attributes to scare and beat players to be effective. With Torres, once injuries took away the raw speed it exposes the limitations of the rest of his game. Tony V is somewhat similar, quite limited and hardly has the natural ability to reinvent himself if his ability to beat players goes. Not that I've given up on him, hopefully he can still turn it around. Torres is a far superior natural footballer to Valencia, it's a much more serious issue for Valencia if he can no longer take advantage of his speed and physicality, or worse, the edge is taken off those attributes through injury. It can get pretty embarrassing when things aren't going well when Valencia is dithering with the ball on the byline, stuttering and desperately trying to shift the the ball onto his right foot to whip it in. At his best he's very effective, but at moments like that you really think United should have forwards capable of something a bit more. |
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Post by tommyred on Mar 10, 2013 22:00:03 GMT
This thread has a touch of the evans/carrick/rafael/de gea's about it Rafael, Evans and De Gea were/are young. Carrick has always been a great footballer and you'd have to be an idiot to say otherwise. Valencia is about 27 and just doesn't have much actual ability. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 10, 2013 23:59:02 GMT
This thread has a touch of the evans/carrick/rafael/de gea's about it Rafael, Evans and De Gea were/are young. Carrick has always been a great footballer and you'd have to be an idiot to say otherwise. Valencia is about 27 and just doesn't have much actual ability. Carrick has always been a great footballer? According to a section of our support he hasnt and we should have sold him. As for the final paragraph? Arf. No one was saying that when he was our main outlet for attacks and the main plan was to get the ball to him and then get in the box. One bad run of form and everyones turned on him. I notice nothing has been said about Evra - again. Hes older and (should be) wiser and yet the left back slot is empty every time they attack allowing cross after cross in. Fucking hell. Ingrates EDIT- and as for the de gea/age thing, you might want to go back and read the shit meted out to him in that thread again. Didnt stop plenty of people. Same goes for rafael and evans. Funny how none have acknowledged they were a tad quick to write them off and yet act like they were behind them all along. |
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sleel6
United Bench Warmer
Posts: 846
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Post by sleel6 on Mar 11, 2013 4:23:34 GMT
This thread has a touch of the evans/carrick/rafael/de gea's about it Rafael, Evans and De Gea were/are young. Carrick has always been a great footballer and you'd have to be an idiot to say otherwise. Valencia is about 27 and just doesn't have much actual ability. 16 assists last seasonn player of the year, players player of the year. Yeah he is shit. |
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Post by redcase on Mar 11, 2013 5:13:02 GMT
Rafael, Evans and De Gea were/are young. Carrick has always been a great footballer and you'd have to be an idiot to say otherwise. Valencia is about 27 and just doesn't have much actual ability. 16 assists last seasonn player of the year, players player of the year. Yeah he is shit. Where were you when 90% of the people here were calling for Nani's head some months ago? When he had come off a good season? 15 goals and 15 assists? Oh wait, you were one of them if I recall right. Valencia doesn't get a pass for the utter bullshit he has been serving up all season. No , sorry. Nightmare inducing stuff. His style of play worked for one season. That's it. Defending him is now a piece of cake. Why? Because as tommo said, he doesn't actually have that much ability and skill. If plan A fails he resorts to plan headless chicken. Everybody says he works hard etc but sorry I don't care anymore about how much he tracks back or whatever. Him running around a lot is just mere plaster over how untalented he really is. A bandage of sorts that somehow covers up his extremely bad ball retention, his lack of skill, his lack of ideas. If hard work was the main criteria to be a good footballer, Scott Parker would be the best midfielder in the world. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Mar 11, 2013 7:36:05 GMT
It's about dynamism really. In terms of inconsistencies in other players' game it can sometimes be plastered over by the fact that they have other facets of their game which get them out of trouble, so to speak. Toni's problem, as has been pointed out and which we've all been aware of since we signed him, is he is pretty much peg-legged (forgetting the cross v Norwich, which me and my mates immediately re-winded as someone had shouted he'd crossed with his left)
Incredibly fast with a good turn of pace, strong as an ox, a great work ethic and superb delivery. - ToniV in a nutshell.
We often forget he had a pretty horrific injury and for him to have reached peaking levels again is a credit to him, at the time I thought he might never be the same. Thing is though, he's not a player we paid so much for he's under so much pressure to perform, it's more about the #7 thing in a way, he's looked half the player since he's got it.
I'm all for acknowledging bad form and having the patience to wait for things to change, therefore I'll not slag off Valencia. The one thing I do agree with , and this is no insult but rather a well known observation, is he's not that multidimensional, hence, if he's not getting crosses in or beating his man for pace, he's left dithering and sending it back where it came from.
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sleel6
United Bench Warmer
Posts: 846
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Post by sleel6 on Mar 11, 2013 7:56:46 GMT
16 assists last seasonn player of the year, players player of the year. Yeah he is shit. Where were you when 90% of the people here were calling for Nani's head some months ago? When he had come off a good season? 15 goals and 15 assists? Oh wait, you were one of them if I recall right. Valencia doesn't get a pass for the utter bullshit he has been serving up all season. No , sorry. Nightmare inducing stuff. His style of play worked for one season. That's it. Defending him is now a piece of cake. Why? Because as tommo said, he doesn't actually have that much ability and skill. If plan A fails he resorts to plan headless chicken. Everybody says he works hard etc but sorry I don't care anymore about how much he tracks back or whatever. Him running around a lot is just mere plaster over how untalented he really is. A bandage of sorts that somehow covers up his extremely bad ball retention, his lack of skill, his lack of ideas. If hard work was the main criteria to be a good footballer, Scott Parker would be the best midfielder in the world. I agree he has been shit this season, no doubt. Yes I will admit to saying Nani had been shit too and I still have doubts. But people calling for him to be sold and saying he is a shit player is just fickle. And sorry what? his style of play worked for one season? Apart from this season He has been brilliant for United ever since he arrived. |
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Post by Dan United on Mar 11, 2013 8:32:36 GMT
He has been brilliant for us, but his form began to dip last year and he's just been shit so far this year. To me, he looks like a player on the decline. He was never the fanciest player, he just knocked it past defenders and ran past them, using his speed and absolute strength to make them look silly, then he would invariably get a dangerous ball into the box. It's a basic game (albeit one he made look easy) and for me, it's not something you should be unable to do for so long if it's merely a dip. I think his time at the club is - should be - coming to an end.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Mar 11, 2013 8:35:11 GMT
Strange how Fergie gave him the 7 though, after Owen you would think he'd be looking for a long term successor for the jersey. Perhaps we'll see Zaha, if he develops, get it in a few years.
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Post by ratbag on Mar 11, 2013 10:02:33 GMT
I'm definitely not going to bash Tony V as he has been brilliant for us for a number of seasons (I never slagged Nani either  ) but Tony really needs to get sorted one way or the other...if it's an injury then stop playing and get it sorted...I find it hard to believe that wearing a particular number has anything to do with it but stranger things have happened...whatever it is, he needs to be taken out of the front line for a while and see the medical team or a sports psychiatrist... or else there is only one way left and I'd hate to see that happen after what he has given us...... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 11:53:59 GMT
His confidence looks shot to pieces and he doesnt appear to be a player who plays through his rough patches.It is painful to watch and it clearly isnt helping him.I think he should be dropped until he is on fire again.If we keep playing him while he trots out such awful performances we are not exactly setting the bar high.
Give Timm or Cole a run in the first team as cover for Nani and Giggs.
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