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Post by jimbonda on Mar 11, 2013 12:26:51 GMT
even if he's out of form he still works hard and rafael is getting the benefit of that.
his form might come back, he's not old. perhaps he's carrying niggling injuries. lets see how he looks next season. i think zaha will get a run in the side from the community shield but then will do some bench time, so even if ferguson plays zaha on the right valencia will get his chance.
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Post by Stew on Mar 11, 2013 12:28:09 GMT
Tony always came across as a humble, genuine guy. You never like to see a player suffer this kind of run. I’m not sure if I agree with him being found out. A year or so ago he was comfortably the best right winger in England. His great strength was his directness. He put it past a full back and got a good cross in. He was relentless, like a cat playing with a mouse. It was simple in one way but very difficult to stop. That has all completely gone for him now. He dithers. He thinks whereas before he was just bang-gone. His confidence is shot. Yesterday he was up against Cole, a player he has tortured in the past. In 2011, at home against the Rents, he brutalized Cole to the point where I almost felt sorry for the cunt. Yesterday, he barely got by him once. And Cole is spent, despite the bullshit about him in the press.
The one thing about this is that it’s bloody sad.
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Post by danthered on Mar 11, 2013 13:42:02 GMT
Tony always came across as a humble, genuine guy. You never like to see a player suffer this kind of run. I’m not sure if I agree with him being found out. A year or so ago he was comfortably the best right winger in England. His great strength was his directness. He put it past a full back and got a good cross in. He was relentless, like a cat playing with a mouse. It was simple in one way but very difficult to stop. That has all completely gone for him now. He dithers. He thinks whereas before he was just bang-gone. His confidence is shot. Yesterday he was up against Cole, a player he has tortured in the past. In 2011, at home against the Rents, he brutalized Cole to the point where I almost felt sorry for the cunt. Yesterday, he barely got by him once. And Cole is spent, despite the bullshit about him in the press. The one thing about this is that it’s bloody sad. Agree with this. Valencia has always been one dimensional and quite predictable for opponents but even despite that he was unstoppable at one point. It was just head down past the full back and bang. Now, he appears to be a shadow of his former self. Hestating to the point (especially yesterday) where he gives other covering defenders the time to come back and help out, making his job all the more difficult. The only thing i can put it down to is confidence. I haven't given up on him just yet though, especially since we don't know how Zaha will cut it in the Prem next season, so wouldn't make any rash decisions about getting rid. It will be interesting to see if he's picked on Saturday or not. On one hand the game could be a confidence booster for him against (no disrespect) mediocre opposition. On the other, we have Giggs fresh after a game off and Young coming back and it makes no real sense to keep picking a player who is so obviously out of form. |
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Post by JamBritRed on Mar 11, 2013 14:25:18 GMT
i am from the camp where i think his one-dimensional approach to his game has now become his weakness. i agree that this was his strongest attribute a few years ago, but if this league is, as many of us believe, the best league in the world then we would be naive to believe that teams would not have found a way to defend that after a season or two.
at the start of this season i saw attempts to change his game. there were a few attempts at crosses with his left foot, but i don't get the impression that this is a natural impulse of his, and he is now, IMO, thinking about what he's gonna do with the ball after he's gotten it, rather that knowing what he wants to do before he's got the ball. thus losing time and slowing the teams game down.
i also think the lack of competition on the wings is hampering his development. i think we may all agree that we have no outstanding wingers in the team. when he joined, Nani was trying to establish himself on the right, and i think they had a real battle there to see who was the better of the two. now, with all of the speculation about Nani's future and his recent injuries/dips in form, and the lack of consistency from Young, i dont sense that, even with Tony's own dip in form, he's really under any pressure for his spot, if you get me. the only obstacle for him currently is himself, and that by itself, cannot be the only source of challenge/motivation.
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Post by ohmanchester123 on Mar 11, 2013 17:48:48 GMT
Cut all the bullshit, i'll tell you whats up with val. He's Shit. Never takes the full-back on anymore and just stands there either just staring at the ground and passes it back, tries to go past him but forgets the ball so has to pass it back or just does a little dance around and gets tackled. Lost all his drive and determination and now hes just a shit, grumpy winger who needs to be sold as we have Zaha now, END OF.
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Post by tommyred on Mar 11, 2013 18:09:00 GMT
Rafael, Evans and De Gea were/are young. Carrick has always been a great footballer and you'd have to be an idiot to say otherwise. Valencia is about 27 and just doesn't have much actual ability. Carrick has always been a great footballer? According to a section of our support he hasnt and we should have sold him. As for the final paragraph? Arf. No one was saying that when he was our main outlet for attacks and the main plan was to get the ball to him and then get in the box. One bad run of form and everyones turned on him. I notice nothing has been said about Evra - again. Hes older and (should be) wiser and yet the left back slot is empty every time they attack allowing cross after cross in. Fucking hell. Ingrates EDIT- and as for the de gea/age thing, you might want to go back and read the shit meted out to him in that thread again. Didnt stop plenty of people. Same goes for rafael and evans. Funny how none have acknowledged they were a tad quick to write them off and yet act like they were behind them all along. I never claimed De Gea/Carrick/Evans et al didn't get abuse. I'm saying this is a different situation because intelligent fans could always see that Carrick was a gifted footballer and that the others were young and would improve with age. With Valencia, we have a player of limited technical ability (if we're being honest) who used to be very effective due to his power, pace, directness and ability to put in a decent cross, but now seems to have lost the ability to use those attributes. |
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bugzyred
United School Boy
[F4:@bugzysingh]
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Post by bugzyred on Mar 11, 2013 18:12:08 GMT
The guys so one dimensional its ridiculous. he very rarely looks to make runs in behind the left back and so ends up facing up to the left back and stutters before passing the ball backwards.
almost as if he is so out of confidence he is looking for an easy way out which is a simple pass.
it says something that the only thing of note he has done recently is stick in a cross with his left peg at norwich which eventually lead to kagawas first. put some more faith in it!!
he seems the type of player who needs an arm round the shoulder, rather than a rant from fergie but if the arm round the shoulder isnt working, its about time we did something to jump start him into gear.
and perhaps give him a couple of weeks in training playing on the left of midfield, build up some confidence on the left foot.
cant fault the guys strength/speed...but to be a united player, and especially a winger you need to be able to produce the unexpected, something we get out of nani.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 11, 2013 20:15:36 GMT
cant fault the guys strength/speed...but to be a united player, and especially a winger you need to be able to produce the unexpected, something we get out of nani. Yeah, that sending off definitly was unexpected. |
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Post by JamBritRed on Mar 11, 2013 20:24:35 GMT
cant fault the guys strength/speed...but to be a united player, and especially a winger you need to be able to produce the unexpected, something we get out of nani. Yeah, that sending off definitly was unexpected. low blow SET, low blow!!  #redcard# |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 11, 2013 20:26:33 GMT
Carrick has always been a great footballer? According to a section of our support he hasnt and we should have sold him. As for the final paragraph? Arf. No one was saying that when he was our main outlet for attacks and the main plan was to get the ball to him and then get in the box. One bad run of form and everyones turned on him. I notice nothing has been said about Evra - again. Hes older and (should be) wiser and yet the left back slot is empty every time they attack allowing cross after cross in. Fucking hell. Ingrates EDIT- and as for the de gea/age thing, you might want to go back and read the shit meted out to him in that thread again. Didnt stop plenty of people. Same goes for rafael and evans. Funny how none have acknowledged they were a tad quick to write them off and yet act like they were behind them all along. I never claimed De Gea/Carrick/Evans et al didn't get abuse. I'm saying this is a different situation because intelligent fans could always see that Carrick was a gifted footballer and that the others were young and would improve with age. With Valencia, we have a player of limited technical ability (if we're being honest) who used to be very effective due to his power, pace, directness and ability to put in a decent cross, but now seems to have lost the ability to use those attributes. Ah yeah, i know he is limited technically, but he has proven to be a useful player plenty of times. He is having a bad season - thats all at the moment. If he doesn't improve next season, then maybe its time to move him on. There are other players who are going through a longer run of bad form and nothing is said. The other point was, if we had listened to half the people on here (and elsewhere) we would have got rid of Evans, Rafael, Carrick, Giggs, De Gea, Nani, Welbeck, etc ages ago and where would we be? Playing the reserves/youth players is where- and i'd love to see the reactions when we are getting twatted every week. Some are also under the illusion we have a fuck-tonne of money to spend too. Selling someone is one thing, but bringing in a replacement is another. Theres too much FM and FIFA in peoples heads too - as if selling and buying are an easy press "X" now process. "We should be looking for 50mill for Rooney, and pay 40mill for Bale" type thing. We should have bought Zaha in in January - especially given the money spent on him. Why didn't we, just to increase our options? Plus we need a new CM & LB first. Yeah, that sending off definitly was unexpected. low blow SET, low blow!! #redcard# Yeah, good luck with that  Truth is, the sending off is the only "unexpected" thing we have had out of Nani for a while |
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Post by tommyred on Mar 11, 2013 20:30:31 GMT
Yeah that's because you expect goals and assists from him when he plays.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 11, 2013 20:37:15 GMT
Nani is beating Valencia on the goals, but Valencia is leading in the assists.
Valencia has the work rate - Nani doesn't. That is needed too. Unless you are scoring and creating goals at a Messi/Ronaldo rate.
Both are here till the summer - regardless.
We need both of them to step up and get back on form.
Until the summer, thats it. And even then, if both leave id be very surprised if we bought another player in other than Zaha. Which will cause plenty to moan again
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Post by tommyred on Mar 11, 2013 20:47:08 GMT
If Nani had played as much as Valencia this season, do you really think he'd have less assists?
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Mar 11, 2013 21:04:58 GMT
There's 11 games in it so probably, but given his form, its not a given that he would either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 21:20:59 GMT
Cut all the bullshit, i'll tell you whats up with val. He's Shit. Never takes the full-back on anymore and just stands there either just staring at the ground and passes it back, tries to go past him but forgets the ball so has to pass it back or just does a little dance around and gets tackled. Lost all his drive and determination and now hes just a shit, grumpy winger who needs to be sold as we have Zaha now, END OF. you bored me after "hes shit". I'm assuming you loved him last season when he was tearing fullbacks new arseholes? There is a massive difference between being "shit" and being out of form. Instead of slating him and coming out with this nonsense get behind your players or fuck off and support someone else. "He's grumpy"...when have you ever seen Valencia whine or moan? exactly and im the idiot that wears glasses...fuck me Where the fuck do we get these people from? H'es has a poor season by his standards and look at the bandwagon brigade out in full force already. |
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