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Post by _ on Sept 6, 2013 0:16:46 GMT
Is anyone going to watch the internationals? Does Dyke have a point about foreign players and decline of home nations players?
I live in Germany and the fans are deeply partisan almost sectarian. Where I live in Aachen the home fans are so extreme they are divided by the police with the lefties on one side stand and the right wingers on the other. The only times they join together are when they play a team from Bavaria or International games.
The Germans pride themselves on the national side. They also have a lot of foreign players but the home grown players are nurtured and well looked after. Dyke thinks the premier league is destroying the national side and certainly there has been a fall in standards not just for England but Scotland, Wales, NI and RoI. It seems less than 40% of home grown players were in the last transfer round.
Then during the Herrera debacle it came to light that Bilbao used only Basque players. This would seem to follow the Germans policy of home grown players.
I think its time to limit the number of foreign players and create the conditions so that PL teams will want to grow players and encourage the national side.
does anyone agree with me?
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Post by Bestie on Sept 6, 2013 8:48:43 GMT
It isn't the clubs' job to develop talent for the national team. If the F. A. want to get anywhere they should stop appointing people like Stuart Pearce and Gareth Southgate to run the oldest youth team. Who manages the under-19s - Noel Blake. Ever heard of him outside of that role? No, me neither. I'm not saying it has to be big names at every level the likes of Dario Gradi know exactly how to develop young talent.
The F. A. like to blame the clubs and the Premier League for the failings of the national team but the buck stops with them.
Oh, and fuck the RoI. They way they can and do poach Northern Irish talent is despicable. I like seeing British and Irish players forming a strong core in the United team, but beyond that fuck the Republic right off.
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Post by _ on Sept 6, 2013 11:48:31 GMT
Interesting view - love the comment about the Republic!
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Sept 6, 2013 12:04:18 GMT
It's been a Bilbao policy for just over 100 years now. They have relaxed it slightly over the past few years, mainly out of necessity.
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Post by fletchabey on Sept 6, 2013 13:52:46 GMT
I've always thought of it as cream always rises to the top. Good players will always play. Now if we arent finding enough top players that suggest something beyond limited opportunities to me.
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Post by johnboy14 on Sept 6, 2013 17:36:16 GMT
It isn't the clubs' job to develop talent for the national team. I totally disagree, there instrumental and necessary in the whole process. The success of the Spanish side in recent years has alot to do with la Masia, without it im convinced they'd still have no World cup or European championships to boast about. If anything the sudden resurgence of German football proves my point. Both the German FA and the Bundesliga clubs working together for the common good. The FA has to start working with premier league clubs but this will be difficult because the people who run our football clubs don't give a shit because commercial interests in English football have become more important than the health of the game. The standard of home nations football is at an all time low and major reform is needed, if something isn't done, they will go back to the pitiful days of the 70s and go many years without qualifying for major tournaments. |
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Post by fletchabey on Sept 6, 2013 18:17:38 GMT
A la masia in England is impossible though. Barca can just hoover up talent from anywhere in Spain and completely monopolise it. We have regulations protecting youth products. They also have no limitations of training time for under 16s. Fergies campaigned pretty hard against this stuff and it beginning to change.
Also la masia certainly helped Spain but then its another aspect of the top 2 monopoly they have which is sending la liga down the toilet.
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Post by johnboy14 on Sept 6, 2013 18:30:26 GMT
A la masia in England is impossible though. Barca can just hoover up talent from anywhere in Spain and completely monopolise it. We have regulations protecting youth products. They also have no limitations of training time for under 16s. Fergies campaigned pretty hard against this stuff and it beginning to change. Also la masia certainly helped Spain but then its another aspect of the top 2 monopoly they have which is sending la liga down the toilet. Well this is the delicate balance thats hard to strike. La Liga isn't competitive right now but when it was the Spanish side was rubbish and now its the worlds best. No money forces clubs to invest in youth. The German model makes total sense in my eyes, they invested millions in building top class academies all over Germany, and ensured these academies developed players to suit a brand of football that leads to more technically capable players. Regulations protecting young players isn't a bad thing if the clubs there currently at are developing players and coaching them to the same model. We can't boast if the rules were different that our academy would be a better place for young players in this country because we haven't produced a world class talent in my opinion since scholes. We have had alot of big prospects since but they can't get a kick in our first team. |
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Post by tommyred on Sept 6, 2013 18:34:09 GMT
The papers seem to run with this bullshit every few months. Look at how few English players there are in the Premier League now compared to 20 years ago! It's the Premier League's fault we're shit!
They're hoping you won't remember that England were just as shite 20 years ago despite this abundance of English talent plying their trade in the top division.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 19:29:21 GMT
All a smoke screen and an excuse for Englands failure in every competition they qualify for. Nothing to do with home grown talent, more to do with excusing the shit they have there atm.
Instead of saying "were just not good enough" they have to get a knob like Dyke to come out and blame the League.
Big massive bollocks is all I say.
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Post by Bestie on Sept 6, 2013 21:54:53 GMT
It isn't the clubs' job to develop talent for the national team. I totally disagree, there instrumental and necessary in the whole process. The success of the Spanish side in recent years has alot to do with la Masia, without it im convinced they'd still have no World cup or European championships to boast about. If anything the sudden resurgence of German football proves my point. Both the German FA and the Bundesliga clubs working together for the common good. The FA has to start working with premier league clubs but this will be difficult because the people who run our football clubs don't give a shit because commercial interests in English football have become more important than the health of the game. The standard of home nations football is at an all time low and major reform is needed, if something isn't done, they will go back to the pitiful days of the 70s and go many years without qualifying for major tournaments. If half those players from La Masia weren't Spanish, would Barcelona have turned them away? No way. Their best player isn't Spanish. Germany is a perfect example of the FA working with clubs to improve the national team. Key being working with. The German FA didn't just say, 'The clubs are to blame, they must do more.' like the English FA. They got into proper consultation with clubs, with the Bundesliga, and made a plan. That hasn't happened here, just blame and whining. |
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Post by johnboy14 on Sept 6, 2013 22:55:39 GMT
Germany is a perfect example of the FA working with clubs to improve the national team. Key being working with. The German FA didn't just say, 'The clubs are to blame, they must do more.' like the English FA. They got into proper consultation with clubs, with the Bundesliga, and made a plan. That hasn't happened here, just blame and whining. Its a quality German people possess to be fair bestie. Compare there unions and industry to ours for example. I will say this that German football at that time was in a bad state financially with the collapse of its huge tv deal so the clubs realised they had to start producing players for there own sake. I agree there's too much blame being chucked around by Dyke and the FA because the door swings both ways on this issue but the clubs are the bread and butter of any successful national side. Our clubs will always look abroad first before looking at home, this goes for our academies also which are full of foreign players. You dont see this in other countries. |
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Post by _ on Sept 8, 2013 15:16:46 GMT
Rio has slammed City and the Geordies for only fielding three English players between them last week. There has to be a better way to invest in home grown talent. The German model isn't perfect and has a lot of failures. I wondered if the NFL method of bringing players through and then trading them at maturity might be a good system to build on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 15:28:44 GMT
There is a way of doing it. Stop over valuing home grown players. For example:
Why would you pay 20m for Baines when you could get say Coentrao for less.
There is too much value in the foreign market in this day and age and with the money men of football playing fantasy football it's only going to get worse.
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