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Post by Sméagol on Aug 30, 2018 15:44:56 GMT
Aye, he isn't mentioned there. Was thinking more about that thing he did with Januzaj in a Reserve's game, but that was down to a lack of maturity most likely. I do think he deserves a chance and he shouldn't have been dropped though. Wasn't this linked to when Andreas and Januzaj would take the piss and have competitions to see who could score direct from a corner in reserve games? Aye, that's the thing. |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 30, 2018 16:54:13 GMT
Don't think those 2 were screwed by anyone. Warren Joyce had some interesting words about Januzaj, Wilson and even Pereira. They simply lacked the work ethic to take the next step. Posted the article somewhere here. Will try to find it. EDIT: Found it. republikofmanc.proboards.com/post/725285/threadBoth Januzaj and Wilson were purged by Louis Van Balls. As were Nani, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletcher, and Rafael. Januzaj was definitely seen as Moyes' man, and there was talk that some senior players resented him for that and for the fans creating a song for him. Remember he and Shaw hired a personal trainer to go to Dubai before the start of the 2015-16 season, started two of the three opening games, scoring a winner at Villa. Then he was loaned to Dortmund. When he came back, LVG used him for only 17 minutes of Premier League games in the second half of the 2015-16 season. As for Wilson, you should be looking at comments from the U23 coach Ricky Sbragia, who said: "He’s a great ambassador and has led the way. Young players should look at that and take great encouragement from him." Both Januzaj and Wilson needed minutes and needed to stay in or around the first team. This is a bullshit narrative that they didn't work hard enough. And I feel Pereira is in the exact same boat: he's talented, he wants to play for the first team, but if he gets 17 minutes in the entire second half of the season, and decides to leave, will the narrative be that Pereira didn't work hard enough? So, basically, that is my argument for saying they were both screwed by managerial changes, and I think the evidence supports that claim. Is there any chance we could reserve some respect for a genuine managerial great and the man who won us our most recent FA Cup? Fucking hell. |
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Post by Sméagol on Aug 30, 2018 17:21:05 GMT
Don't think those 2 were screwed by anyone. Warren Joyce had some interesting words about Januzaj, Wilson and even Pereira. They simply lacked the work ethic to take the next step. Posted the article somewhere here. Will try to find it. EDIT: Found it. republikofmanc.proboards.com/post/725285/threadBoth Januzaj and Wilson were purged by Louis Van Balls. As were Nani, Jonny Evans, Darren Fletcher, and Rafael. Januzaj was definitely seen as Moyes' man, and there was talk that some senior players resented him for that and for the fans creating a song for him. Remember he and Shaw hired a personal trainer to go to Dubai before the start of the 2015-16 season, started two of the three opening games, scoring a winner at Villa. Then he was loaned to Dortmund. When he came back, LVG used him for only 17 minutes of Premier League games in the second half of the 2015-16 season. As for Wilson, you should be looking at comments from the U23 coach Ricky Sbragia, who said: "He’s a great ambassador and has led the way. Young players should look at that and take great encouragement from him." Both Januzaj and Wilson needed minutes and needed to stay in or around the first team. This is a bullshit narrative that they didn't work hard enough. And I feel Pereira is in the exact same boat: he's talented, he wants to play for the first team, but if he gets 17 minutes in the entire second half of the season, and decides to leave, will the narrative be that Pereira didn't work hard enough? So, basically, that is my argument for saying they were both screwed by managerial changes, and I think the evidence supports that claim. Well, Sbragia can't really say anything else, he's the current manager of the Reserves and I have much more faith in what Joyce has to say. I do think that they are both incredibly talented (loved Wilson in the Academy and genuinely thought that he'll be our next great striker) and that they could've been managed better, but that's not an excuse. Look how the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe did/are doing on loan and then watch Wilson and Januzaj's spells. Actually, Adnan had some problems with Tuchel (I think) at Dortmund too. And I'm quite sure that Pereira will stay at United and be a great player for us in the future. |
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Post by caino on Aug 30, 2018 17:44:53 GMT
Well, Sbragia can't really say anything else, he's the current manager of the Reserves and I have much more faith in what Joyce has to say. I do think that they are both incredibly talented (loved Wilson in the Academy and genuinely thought that he'll be our next great striker) and that they could've been managed better, but that's not an excuse. Look how the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe did/are doing on loan and then watch Wilson and Januzaj's spells. Actually, Adnan had some problems with Tuchel (I think) at Dortmund too. And I'm quite sure that Pereira will stay at United and be a great player for us in the future. TFM and Tuanzebe will never become United first team players, I'd be willing to bet. They are surplus under JM and a new manager would have to see something extraordinary to offer them a way back in from the cold. One only has to look at the crazy favoritism JM shows to Fellaini, Sanchez, and Lukaku for an example of a manager keeping faith with a player. I'd argue that JM's faith in those three is misplaced, but contrast the faith with how quickly Januzaj and Wilson were shipped out, and in Januzaj's case it was right after scoring the winner in a Premier League match. If we get Zidane as our new manager, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we never see Wilson, TFM, Tuanzebe, or Pereira in the first team ever again. why ? zidane wasn't afraid to play younger players ? Tuanzebe defo has a future hes going to be a superb CB. hes only a kid still. cant write him off yet. |
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Post by Sméagol on Aug 30, 2018 18:03:14 GMT
Well, Sbragia can't really say anything else, he's the current manager of the Reserves and I have much more faith in what Joyce has to say. I do think that they are both incredibly talented (loved Wilson in the Academy and genuinely thought that he'll be our next great striker) and that they could've been managed better, but that's not an excuse. Look how the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe did/are doing on loan and then watch Wilson and Januzaj's spells. Actually, Adnan had some problems with Tuchel (I think) at Dortmund too. And I'm quite sure that Pereira will stay at United and be a great player for us in the future. TFM and Tuanzebe will never become United first team players, I'd be willing to bet. They are surplus under JM and a new manager would have to see something extraordinary to offer them a way back in from the cold. One only has to look at the crazy favoritism JM shows to Fellaini, Sanchez, and Lukaku for an example of a manager keeping faith with a player. I'd argue that JM's faith in those three is misplaced, but contrast the faith with how quickly Januzaj and Wilson were shipped out, and in Januzaj's case it was right after scoring the winner in a Premier League match. If we get Zidane as our new manager, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we never see Wilson, TFM, Tuanzebe, or Pereira in the first team ever again. Well, some just aren't good enough and aren't able to take that next step in order to succeed at the highest level. Plenty of players were highly rated as teenagers and they ended up mediocre players. Wilson is one of them. As much as I don't like the way Jose manages the young guys or what Van Gaal did, they do know more about us about what it takes to become a great player. |
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Post by Stew on Aug 30, 2018 18:23:21 GMT
There’s no question of Wilson’s innate talent or attitude. His career has been ruined by injury. It’s a real shame because he was potentially an International footballer. I feel sorry for Wilson, unlike that moron Morisson.
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Post by redcase on Aug 30, 2018 21:41:10 GMT
I cannot believe people are still lamenting Januzaj. He was rank average, that season under Moyes was so fucking bleak that the 2 or 3 goals he scored felt like salvation of sorts. His stints elsewhere have shown his true level of talent, and not much of that is going to change.
Warren Joyce won how many trophies with our reserves? 2? I'll take his judgement over Sbragia's any day, and his comments were quite stark regarding Wilson and Januzaj.
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Post by ratbag on Aug 31, 2018 7:47:08 GMT
Well, Sbragia can't really say anything else, he's the current manager of the Reserves and I have much more faith in what Joyce has to say. I do think that they are both incredibly talented (loved Wilson in the Academy and genuinely thought that he'll be our next great striker) and that they could've been managed better, but that's not an excuse. Look how the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe did/are doing on loan and then watch Wilson and Januzaj's spells. Actually, Adnan had some problems with Tuchel (I think) at Dortmund too. And I'm quite sure that Pereira will stay at United and be a great player for us in the future. TFM and Tuanzebe will never become United first team players, I'd be willing to bet. They are surplus under JM and a new manager would have to see something extraordinary to offer them a way back in from the cold. One only has to look at the crazy favoritism JM shows to Fellaini, Sanchez, and Lukaku for an example of a manager keeping faith with a player. I'd argue that JM's faith in those three is misplaced, but contrast the faith with how quickly Januzaj and Wilson were shipped out, and in Januzaj's case it was right after scoring the winner in a Premier League match. If we get Zidane as our new manager, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we never see Wilson, TFM, Tuanzebe, or Pereira in the first team ever again. Can't agree here...my impression is a new manager worth his salt will get all available players together and assess them and this would include loanees...it would be madness to take the views of a previous (probably failed) manager as gospel without forming your own opinion... Some managers just don't fancy certain players but a new manager might...so if TFM and Tuanzebe, for instance, get a chance to be assessed, the incoming manager might feel there is something he can work with...it is by no means a given that they have no future with us... |
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Post by Stew on Nov 26, 2018 18:28:44 GMT
The Rents and Arsenal weighing up bids for him in January.
Marvelous.
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Post by king nothing on Nov 26, 2018 18:41:12 GMT
Probably sell him for a packet of spicy ramen and a pickled egg.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 19:46:14 GMT
The Rents and Arsenal weighing up bids for him in January. Marvelous. Losing him without him ever getting a proper chance will be incredibly hard to take. |
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Post by . on Nov 26, 2018 21:14:09 GMT
The Rents and Arsenal weighing up bids for him in January. Marvelous. So Jose screws him over because of the Brighton game away, then we proceed to strengthen either Chelsea or Arsenal by selling him. We really are fucked. |
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Post by Bestie on Nov 26, 2018 21:29:06 GMT
The Rents and Arsenal weighing up bids for him in January. Marvelous. He definitely should have stayed up fight for his place last season though. So unprofessional. |
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Post by Karma on Nov 26, 2018 21:47:01 GMT
Not really convinced with him either way.
How did he do during his loan spell last season...did anyone keep a watch out?
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Post by caino on Nov 27, 2018 7:11:39 GMT
hes got all the characteristics to be a top holding mid. but due to failings in coaching we are going to lose one of our most technically gifted players.
what a shambles.
this will be in hindsight, a very bad decision by the club. and another failing of Jose when it comes to young players
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