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Post by bushy1987 on Feb 18, 2018 11:44:52 GMT
Just seen that both on 12 though firminho had scored a goal more must of read it wrong, according to the bbc site lukaku has played more minutes then all of them other then vardy, unless he goes on a big goal scoring run, if he doesnt hit 20-25 lg goals its a poor return for me So now he's scored the same as Firmino, it's he's played more minutes than him. Give the guy a break. Look people can be realy happy with his return and thats up to them, he was brought in to score goals which would win us the lg and 12 goals at this stage isnt good enough, if aguero or kane had only scored 12 prem goals by now everybody would be on their case |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Feb 18, 2018 11:56:45 GMT
I want him to be more consistent, especially in the big games. Lots of other people have said that. He had a huge dip earlier in the season, and you yourself said the other day that he hasn’t been performing as he should be. We’re miles away from the title now, and one of many reasons for that has been Lukaku’s inconsistent performances, mainly in games vs. the rest of the ‘top 6’, where he’s got no goals (and no real good performances bar maybe vs. Arsenal away and Spurs at home) in six games to date. I said if he can play like he has in the past two games across a season, he’ll be able to lead us to the title. What part of that do you disagree with? Considering earlier this week you openly said he hasn’t been good enough at times this season, I’m struggling to see where you and I differ right now. He still has room for improvement yes. But then i expect improvement in all our players every season. But then some players, like Shaw and Martial for instance, have even more room for improvement than Lukaku, yet they seem to get away with being far less effective more often. 21 goals, around the halfway point in the season, is a good start. Another 15 and he has already caught up with Martial. In around 80 games fewer. I look forward to the likes of Martial and co being held to such high standards. Especially as they aren't in their first seasons here. A big part of the reason Lukaku is held to such high standards is because of his fee, which is obviously higher than anyone bar Pogba (who has obviously had some criticism lately, albeit less than Lukaku). Lukaku is also two years older than both those players and has played a lot more games in his career than either, so people expect him to be further along in his development (further to this, I don't think it's unfair to expect him to match his scoring record in the league with Everton last season, which I think he is still some way off doing). Another reason (the biggest I think) is the way Jose seems to consider him untouchable in the lineup - something that certainly isn't the case for Shaw and Martial, and leads to a lot of frustration when he plays as poorly as others but faces less consequences. None of those things are actually his fault, but all contribute to people expecting more. Those three reasons mean he is probably held to a higher standard than players like Martial, Rashford, Shaw and Bailly. I've also seen people (not sure if they've been here, probably on Twitter etc.) say a lot of his goals have been nice but inconsequential i.e. late in games we have already won. Whilst that is mostly true - a quick look at WhoScored suggests there are only 6 games this season where his goals directly gained us a draw or win - I think it's an unfair criticism. Yes he's underperformed in the big games, and have a go at him for that, but to criticise him for scoring goals in games already won is silly IMO. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Feb 18, 2018 12:02:29 GMT
Most Utd goals in a season. All comps. Yorke- 29 Cole- 25 Cantona- 25 Sheringham- 21 Ole- 25 Hughes- 24 Tevez- 19 Ruud, Ronnie and Rooney all had seasons of over 30. They are probably out of reach but there is every reason to think Lukaku can top all of the above over the next few months (and has done already in some cases). And lets be honest- they played in far better teams than the one Lukaku is on now. That's interesting. Surprised some of them are under 30. My personal benchmark for Lukaku was to match or better his number of goals for Everton last season, as they were a worse team than us, so I see no reason why he couldn't at least equal that with us (especially as we still play through him a lot of the time). He scored 25 in the league for them last year, and is on 12 for us in the league this year. Is it unfair to expect him to score as many with us as he did last year with Everton? Genuinely curious as to people's thoughts on that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:08:36 GMT
Worth noting Stew that all those guys played in a two. Those are massive totals for players who are sharing the goals. The likes of Ole and Sheringham weren't even first choice players. We've had some talent over the years.
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Post by Stew on Feb 18, 2018 12:12:47 GMT
Most Utd goals in a season. All comps. Yorke- 29 Cole- 25 Cantona- 25 Sheringham- 21 Ole- 25 Hughes- 24 Tevez- 19 Ruud, Ronnie and Rooney all had seasons of over 30. They are probably out of reach but there is every reason to think Lukaku can top all of the above over the next few months (and has done already in some cases). And lets be honest- they played in far better teams than the one Lukaku is on now. That's interesting. Surprised some of them are under 30. My personal benchmark for Lukaku was to match or better his number of goals for Everton last season, as they were a worse team than us, so I see no reason why he couldn't at least equal that with us (especially as we still play through him a lot of the time). He scored 25 in the league for them last year, and is on 12 for us in the league this year. Is it unfair to expect him to score as many with us as he did last year with Everton? Genuinely curious as to people's thoughts on that. well these things are never really black and white. He was probably miles ahead of anyone else when it came to goals for them, whereas here you have Lingard, Martial and Rashford all scoring. Teams may have been more open against Everton, as they wouldn’t have feared them, whereas against us the bus gets parked. He probably played a lot less as well, given they went out of comps early. You could also argue the reverse of those points should equal more goals. Personally, if he hits 25 in all comps hes done well for me. He gets 30 then thats an excellent debut season. I do think Ronaldo and Messi have skewed what’s considered a good return for strikers these days still. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 18, 2018 12:13:35 GMT
Worth noting Stew that all those guys played in a two. Those are massive totals for players who are sharing the goals. The likes of Ole and Sheringham weren't even first choice players. We've had some talent over the years. Yes that is true. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 18, 2018 12:15:06 GMT
On this, I’ve found it really hard to get info on strikers goals in all comps.
Kane has 33 in all comps.
Salah has 30
Agüero has 29
Firmino 21
Vardy 15
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Post by Bestie on Feb 18, 2018 12:17:13 GMT
Just seen that both on 12 though firminho had scored a goal more must of read it wrong, according to the bbc site lukaku has played more minutes then all of them other then vardy, unless he goes on a big goal scoring run, if he doesnt hit 20-25 lg goals its a poor return for me When did league goals become the sole benchmark for a striker? It’s certainly new to me. And minutes played is completely irrelevant. Seems to be just a stick to beat him with. The guy has bagged 21 goals in his first season at a big club (he barely played at the Rents) By any reasonable standards 25 goals in all competitions is a very good return. It was with Rudd, Yorke, Cole. Tevez etc. It shouldn’t be any different for Lukaku. Standards have changed. The benchmark is 20 league goals now. Has been for years. Saying otherwise just to suit supporting Lukaku is pointless. He has been good in the last three matches but he has missed big, big chances this season. He has also gone missing, whether his fault or by Mourinho's tactics, in the biggest games so far. I want him to do well, but we have to admit he has underwhelmed this season. He has to do more. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:18:22 GMT
As soon as/if Mourinho manages to get the balance right then Lukaku will improve. Some things he needs to improve himself, some he needs others to help.
As soon as that balance is found and things arent being chopped and changed every other week then we will start moving at the expected pace and with luck a lot of the top talent will be performing as they should be and far more consistent. Right now we're playing the least entertaining, least consistent football out of the top 6. This is unacceptable and needs to change.
We need to start playing to our strengths. 2 in midfield is not one of them.
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Post by Stew on Feb 18, 2018 12:21:12 GMT
When did league goals become the sole benchmark for a striker? It’s certainly new to me. And minutes played is completely irrelevant. Seems to be just a stick to beat him with. The guy has bagged 21 goals in his first season at a big club (he barely played at the Rents) By any reasonable standards 25 goals in all competitions is a very good return. It was with Rudd, Yorke, Cole. Tevez etc. It shouldn’t be any different for Lukaku. Standards have changed. The benchmark is 20 league goals now. Has been for years. Pretending otherwise to suit supporting Lukaku is pointless. He has been good in the last three matches but he has missed big, big chances this season. He has also gone missing, whether his fault or by Mourinho's tactics, in the biggest games so far. I want him to do well, but we have to admit he has underwhelmed this season. He has to do more. So if he gets another 8 in the league and ends up around 32-36 goals in all comps then we’d have to say he’s had a good season? It would seem a bit churlish to criticize a player who has scored over 30 as underwhelming imo. I am aware that I’ve been critical of him in the past, so I’m not trying to pretend otherwise. He has to score against City for example, that would have changed an awful lot. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:21:43 GMT
Undecided on Lukaku myself. He's been well in most ways, he's performing to expectations, He's just missing the wow factor so far. Good service will help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:23:20 GMT
On this, I’ve found it really hard to get info on strikers goals in all comps. Kane has 33 in all comps. Salah has 30 Agüero has 29 Firmino 21 Vardy 15 Go to wiki and use the drop down for stats. Do not use the stats at the top of the page because that's league only. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 18, 2018 12:24:34 GMT
Btw, there was literally nothing in Salah’s history to suggest he’d have this season. Nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:37:09 GMT
On this, I’ve found it really hard to get info on strikers goals in all comps. Kane has 33 in all comps. Salah has 30 Agüero has 29 Firmino 21 Vardy 15 And Lukaku is on 21 in all comps. Considering the critisicm (mostly justified) he's gotten this season his stats do tell a different story. Got all the faith that he'll improve however. |
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Post by GeniusCantona on Feb 18, 2018 12:53:59 GMT
Give Lukaku the right service and he will score. Yes he’s had some glaring misses but you can pull up highlights of any striker showing some spectacular missed chances. Zlatan missed a lot of clear cut chances for us last year! It comes with playing the position.
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