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Post by viking22 on Aug 20, 2023 9:29:15 GMT
Don't be too hard on yourself smithy2.
I think a lot of people took the simplistic view that as all charges were dropped then there is no reason why he cannot play for us again.
That is a reasonable position to take for a lot of crimes. But when it comes to domestic abuse most victims aren't able to go through with the whole process required to to allow the case to proceed to court and conviction. And especially in a situation where the victim is emotionally involved and therefore all to eager to believe her abuser is "sorry" and has "changed". And while without a witness statement the photos/audio were not enough to convict they are sufficiently damning that he cannot by any stretch of the imagination be thought to be innocent or wrongly accused. And there should be zero tolerance when it comes to violence towards women. So writing it off as the result of immaturity is also a cop out.
Anyway thankfully the fans seem to have spoken. And with the club still in the shop window the Glazers are self serving enough not to want endless protests and negative press coverage to diminish the value of the club.
What is a little frustrating is that Erik and a lot of the players seemed so relaxed about bringing him back into the team. All these men have mothers, a lot of them have sisters and girlfriends of their own. You would have thought that if the senior players decided they didn't want him back into the squad things wouldn't have progressed as far as they did and he'd have been gone long ago.
But maybe after playing half the season with Wout upfront and putting up with Antony most of the season they reached the position of quite a few of our fans of putting their moral objections to one side because of the desperate footballing state of this club.
And sad to say but Mason probably could quite easily walk into this team the state it is in.
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Post by Kojak on Aug 20, 2023 9:53:20 GMT
Don't be too hard on yourself smithy2. I think a lot of people took the simplistic view that as all charges were dropped then there is no reason why he cannot play for us again. That is a reasonable position to take for a lot of crimes. But when it comes to domestic abuse most victims aren't able to go through with the whole process required to to allow the case to proceed to court and conviction. And especially in a situation where the victim is emotionally involved and therefore all to eager to believe her abuser is "sorry" and has "changed". And while without a witness statement the photos/audio were not enough to convict they are sufficiently damning that he cannot by any stretch of the imagination be thought to be innocent or wrongly accused. And there should be zero tolerance when it comes to violence towards women. So writing it off as the result of immaturity is also a cop out. Anyway thankfully the fans seem to have spoken. And with the club still in the shop window the Glazers are self serving enough not to want endless protests and negative press coverage to diminish the value of the club. What is a little frustrating is that Erik and a lot of the players seemed so relaxed about bringing him back into the team. All these men have mothers, a lot of them have sisters and girlfriends of their own. You would have thought that if the senior players decided they didn't want him back into the squad things wouldn't have progressed as far as they did and he'd have been gone long ago. But maybe after playing half the season with Wout upfront and putting up with Antony most of the season they reached the position of quite a few of our fans of putting their moral objections to one side because of the desperate footballing state of this club. And sad to say but Mason probably could quite easily walk into this team the state it is in. I think to understand the playing staff, his colleagues, and their point of view, you may need to equate it to a normal workplace. I’ve dealt with quite serious disciplinary issues at work over the years and it’s really hard to get staff to give statements or an opinion on the record. Even when the person’s actions negatively impact them and when they’ve actively watched an incident unfold. Ultimately people still don’t want to contribute towards someone else losing their job. Often what will happen is staff won’t say anything positive or negative, they just shut the fuck up. Do we know that the playing staff at United were actually in favour of him coming back, or was it just that nobody objected? Also there’s a lot of young lads in the squad. Even 25 year olds. We think of that as relatively experienced in football terms, but it’s not in life. It’s not easy to speak out. You’ve got Antony in the squad who they will all know full well has something hanging over him. Is it then easy to speak out about violence against women when another active member of the squad may have perpetrated a similar thing? What effect would that have on the dynamic? Is Antony a big character within the squad? Or they all just either don’t care because Mason is a great talent or think he deserves a second chance regardless. I’m just trying to offer up some alternative points of view to try to help us understand what’s going on. |
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Post by mightyez on Aug 20, 2023 16:13:51 GMT
🚨 We are expected to hear an update on Mason Greenwood as early as tomorrow. #MUFC [ Dave_Ornstein] |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 16:58:55 GMT
Don't be too hard on yourself smithy2. I think a lot of people took the simplistic view that as all charges were dropped then there is no reason why he cannot play for us again. That is a reasonable position to take for a lot of crimes. But when it comes to domestic abuse most victims aren't able to go through with the whole process required to to allow the case to proceed to court and conviction. And especially in a situation where the victim is emotionally involved and therefore all to eager to believe her abuser is "sorry" and has "changed". And while without a witness statement the photos/audio were not enough to convict they are sufficiently damning that he cannot by any stretch of the imagination be thought to be innocent or wrongly accused. And there should be zero tolerance when it comes to violence towards women. So writing it off as the result of immaturity is also a cop out. Anyway thankfully the fans seem to have spoken. And with the club still in the shop window the Glazers are self serving enough not to want endless protests and negative press coverage to diminish the value of the club. What is a little frustrating is that Erik and a lot of the players seemed so relaxed about bringing him back into the team. All these men have mothers, a lot of them have sisters and girlfriends of their own. You would have thought that if the senior players decided they didn't want him back into the squad things wouldn't have progressed as far as they did and he'd have been gone long ago. But maybe after playing half the season with Wout upfront and putting up with Antony most of the season they reached the position of quite a few of our fans of putting their moral objections to one side because of the desperate footballing state of this club. And sad to say but Mason probably could quite easily walk into this team the state it is in. I think to understand the playing staff, his colleagues, and their point of view, you may need to equate it to a normal workplace. I’ve dealt with quite serious disciplinary issues at work over the years and it’s really hard to get staff to give statements or an opinion on the record. Even when the person’s actions negatively impact them and when they’ve actively watched an incident unfold. Ultimately people still don’t want to contribute towards someone else losing their job. Often what will happen is staff won’t say anything positive or negative, they just shut the fuck up. Do we know that the playing staff at United were actually in favour of him coming back, or was it just that nobody objected? Also there’s a lot of young lads in the squad. Even 25 year olds. We think of that as relatively experienced in football terms, but it’s not in life. It’s not easy to speak out. You’ve got Antony in the squad who they will all know full well has something hanging over him. Is it then easy to speak out about violence against women when another active member of the squad may have perpetrated a similar thing? What effect would that have on the dynamic? Is Antony a big character within the squad? Or they all just either don’t care because Mason is a great talent or think he deserves a second chance regardless. I’m just trying to offer up some alternative points of view to try to help us understand what’s going on. Mostly the same fans and players who gave a hero’s welcome to a player who had paid $375,000 in hush money to a woman amid rape accusations |
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Post by mightyez on Aug 20, 2023 17:39:31 GMT
I think to understand the playing staff, his colleagues, and their point of view, you may need to equate it to a normal workplace. I’ve dealt with quite serious disciplinary issues at work over the years and it’s really hard to get staff to give statements or an opinion on the record. Even when the person’s actions negatively impact them and when they’ve actively watched an incident unfold. Ultimately people still don’t want to contribute towards someone else losing their job. Often what will happen is staff won’t say anything positive or negative, they just shut the fuck up. Do we know that the playing staff at United were actually in favour of him coming back, or was it just that nobody objected? Also there’s a lot of young lads in the squad. Even 25 year olds. We think of that as relatively experienced in football terms, but it’s not in life. It’s not easy to speak out. You’ve got Antony in the squad who they will all know full well has something hanging over him. Is it then easy to speak out about violence against women when another active member of the squad may have perpetrated a similar thing? What effect would that have on the dynamic? Is Antony a big character within the squad? Or they all just either don’t care because Mason is a great talent or think he deserves a second chance regardless. I’m just trying to offer up some alternative points of view to try to help us understand what’s going on. Mostly the same fans and players who gave a hero’s welcome to a player who had paid $375,000 in hush money to a woman amid rape accusations That would be all the fans then |
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Post by Kojak on Aug 20, 2023 17:54:37 GMT
I think to understand the playing staff, his colleagues, and their point of view, you may need to equate it to a normal workplace. I’ve dealt with quite serious disciplinary issues at work over the years and it’s really hard to get staff to give statements or an opinion on the record. Even when the person’s actions negatively impact them and when they’ve actively watched an incident unfold. Ultimately people still don’t want to contribute towards someone else losing their job. Often what will happen is staff won’t say anything positive or negative, they just shut the fuck up. Do we know that the playing staff at United were actually in favour of him coming back, or was it just that nobody objected? Also there’s a lot of young lads in the squad. Even 25 year olds. We think of that as relatively experienced in football terms, but it’s not in life. It’s not easy to speak out. You’ve got Antony in the squad who they will all know full well has something hanging over him. Is it then easy to speak out about violence against women when another active member of the squad may have perpetrated a similar thing? What effect would that have on the dynamic? Is Antony a big character within the squad? Or they all just either don’t care because Mason is a great talent or think he deserves a second chance regardless. I’m just trying to offer up some alternative points of view to try to help us understand what’s going on. Mostly the same fans and players who gave a hero’s welcome to a player who had paid $375,000 in hush money to a woman amid rape accusations People are still playing the music of Michael Jackson. |
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Post by Paul on Aug 20, 2023 18:00:43 GMT
🚨 We are expected to hear an update on Mason Greenwood as early as tomorrow. #MUFC [ Dave_Ornstein] Would just sum the last week up if he's announced back tomorrow. Whilst I'm not making excuses for some of these lazy bastards, I can't imagine any of this is doing any favours in the dressing room either. No matter where you look atm within the club there's a toxic feel. We just need this chapter dead and buried. |
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Post by Karma on Aug 20, 2023 19:08:09 GMT
🚨 We are expected to hear an update on Mason Greenwood as early as tomorrow. #MUFC [ Dave_Ornstein] Would just sum the last week up if he's announced back tomorrow. Whilst I'm not making excuses for some of these lazy bastards, I can't imagine any of this is doing any favours in the dressing room either. No matter where you look atm within the club there's a toxic feel. We just need this chapter dead and buried. I’d be amazed if he was brought back after all the mess . I know our fan base is easily mugged off but this would stretch it. |
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Post by Kojak on Aug 20, 2023 19:37:14 GMT
Would just sum the last week up if he's announced back tomorrow. Whilst I'm not making excuses for some of these lazy bastards, I can't imagine any of this is doing any favours in the dressing room either. No matter where you look atm within the club there's a toxic feel. We just need this chapter dead and buried. I’d be amazed if he was brought back after all the mess . I know our fan base is easily mugged off but this would stretch it. Yeah he’s not coming back now. In line with what Stew said, I think bringing him back would’ve been wrong, but if you’ve supposedly conducted this robust investigation and that was your decision, then just fucking stick to it. They buckle. This is how we signed Casemiro. How the Super League got called off. They shit it under pressure. Unfortunately we’ve never put them under enough pressure to make them sell up. |
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Post by oscared on Aug 21, 2023 14:02:43 GMT
It’s over he won’t be playing for us again.
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Post by Stew on Aug 21, 2023 14:04:04 GMT
Done. Good riddance.
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Post by seanie on Aug 21, 2023 14:09:28 GMT
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Post by Karma on Aug 21, 2023 14:11:19 GMT
Shamed into action.
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Post by Chris on Aug 21, 2023 14:18:26 GMT
Thank fuck. See you later scumbag.
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Post by Tatty on Aug 21, 2023 14:19:31 GMT
MUFC acting like the Tory government and U-Turning quicker than a Smart Car.
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