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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 20:35:08 GMT
As for the Southgate thing, I want England to win the Euros, but if they do, we're absolutely fucked
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Post by viking22 on May 27, 2024 20:43:32 GMT
If things go tits up by November then you back your manager until the end of the season and work with him to fix the problems.
But I think we are being overly dramatic. With all the problems we had this season Erik never lost the dressing room, avoided the death spiral that got all his predecessors sacked and finished the season only 3 wins away from top 4. Next season will be better if we can fix the injuries and sign 3-4 good players we'll make easily make top 4. And at the end of the season we will have enough evidence to decide whether sufficient progress has been made to justify extending his contract or going with someone else.
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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 20:51:52 GMT
If things go tits up by November then you back your manager until the end of the season and work with him to fix the problems. But I think we are being overly dramatic. With all the problems we had this season Erik never lost the dressing room, avoided the death spiral that got all his predecessors sacked and finished the season only 3 wins away from top 4. Next season will be better if we can fix the injuries and sign 3-4 good players we'll make easily make top 4. And at the end of the season we will have enough evidence to decide whether sufficient progress has been made to justify extending his contract or going with someone else. Only 3 wins from top 4. Only. Jesus, if that's your benchmark for keeping a manager |
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Post by Stretty on May 27, 2024 21:09:33 GMT
If things go tits up by November then you back your manager until the end of the season and work with him to fix the problems. But I think we are being overly dramatic. With all the problems we had this season Erik never lost the dressing room, avoided the death spiral that got all his predecessors sacked and finished the season only 3 wins away from top 4. Next season will be better if we can fix the injuries and sign 3-4 good players we'll make easily make top 4. And at the end of the season we will have enough evidence to decide whether sufficient progress has been made to justify extending his contract or going with someone else. Only 3 wins from top 4. Only. Jesus, if that's your benchmark for keeping a manager Definitely. Top 4 should have been the bare minimum and when you start counting how far we are away from that goal in wins rather than points then our standards really have dropped through the floor. |
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Post by viking22 on May 27, 2024 21:20:24 GMT
Not a benchmark. But just illustrating that with all the mitigating factors (injuries, our only recognized striker a raw but promising kid, Rashford and Casemiro's pathetic form, Onana's debut season struggles, the distraction of the takeover saga, Erik being undermined by all the speculation which INEOS refused to nip in the bud etc) Erik didn't do as bad in the league as people are making out and winning the FA cup goes a long way towards compensating for our struggles in the league. If things go tits up by November then you back your manager until the end of the season and work with him to fix the problems. But I think we are being overly dramatic. With all the problems we had this season Erik never lost the dressing room, avoided the death spiral that got all his predecessors sacked and finished the season only 3 wins away from top 4. Next season will be better if we can fix the injuries and sign 3-4 good players we'll make easily make top 4. And at the end of the season we will have enough evidence to decide whether sufficient progress has been made to justify extending his contract or going with someone else. Only 3 wins from top 4. Only. Jesus, if that's your benchmark for keeping a manager |
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Post by DedRevil on May 27, 2024 21:31:05 GMT
Not a benchmark. But just illustrating that with all the mitigating factors (injuries, our only recognized striker a raw but promising kid, Rashford and Casemiro's pathetic form, Onana's debut season struggles, the distraction of the takeover saga, Erik being undermined by all the speculation which INEOS refused to nip in the bud etc) Erik didn't do as bad in the league as people are making out and winning the FA cup goes a long way towards compensating for our struggles in the league. Only 3 wins from top 4. Only. Jesus, if that's your benchmark for keeping a manager Worst ever PL finish, he did do as bad as people make out. Crack on though mate, happy to end this here. Hope it works if he stays. |
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Post by viking22 on May 27, 2024 21:38:43 GMT
Let's just hope INEOS don't let it drag on until the Euros to give Southgate the chance to throw his hat in the ring!
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Post by harvindhillon on May 27, 2024 21:46:44 GMT
Not a benchmark. But just illustrating that with all the mitigating factors (injuries, our only recognized striker a raw but promising kid, Rashford and Casemiro's pathetic form, Onana's debut season struggles, the distraction of the takeover saga, Erik being undermined by all the speculation which INEOS refused to nip in the bud etc) Erik didn't do as bad in the league as people are making out and winning the FA cup goes a long way towards compensating for our struggles in the league. Worst ever PL finish, he did do as bad as people make out. Crack on though mate, happy to end this here. Hope it works if he stays. Remember we finished 5th with 0 GD and 58 points before ETH came in. No 60 individual injuries that season, no player drama as well apart from them downing tools.
Stop being over dramatic.
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Post by Karma on May 27, 2024 22:15:18 GMT
If we do give him one more season and it all goes tits up by November what do we do then? Let the fans decide who are clearly trying to influence the club to keep him. Such is their wisdom. 🤪 |
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Post by safariRed on May 29, 2024 4:11:38 GMT
Yes for me because I care more about feeling the way I did on Saturday every season.
Interesting little stat I came across...
Major honours won Since 2001
Manchester United 19*
Manchester City 19
Chelsea 19
Liverpool 13
Arsenal 9
Leicester City 3
8 clubs have won one - portsmouth, wigan , spurs, west ham, Birmingham city, Blackburn rovers, Swansea, middlesborough
We were on 18 before that FA CUP win on Saturday brought us level with City and Chelsea.
Crazy the amount of success 115City have had since the 2008 takeover.if that doesn't scream cheating I don't know what will.
It must boil their piss that no matter how hard they cheat ,how well they're run, Man UTD still win trophies with incompetent owners and shit recruitment.
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Post by safariRed on May 29, 2024 4:16:38 GMT
Let's just hope INEOS don't let it drag on until the Euros to give Southgate the chance to throw his hat in the ring! The Southgate Rumours are embarrassing honestly. If that's the route that INEOS want to take then they're not as ambitious as they claim to be. |
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Post by anti_social on May 29, 2024 7:24:45 GMT
It's a hesitant Yes for me, a Southgate appointment is too appalling to contemplate and the other contenders don't exactly represent a massive improvement IMHO. If it's still shit by Christmas pull the trigger though.
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Post by Kojak on May 29, 2024 8:16:16 GMT
I think it’s a win/win for INEOS in some respects. They probably do want Southgate but that’s not going to be achievable right now.
They can keep Erik on, if it’s a disaster then by the time they sack him, Southgate will be available.
The players we sign and the style of play will be dictated by those in charge of football operations. So it won’t be the manager wasting money on the profile of player that the next man wouldn’t want.
There’s just not much risk for them with this. A lot of fans want Erik to stay, worst case scenario they can say, we tried, it didn’t work, now we’re bringing in our man. It’ll cost money to sack him whether it’s now or Christmas.
There’s not an unbelievable list of candidates. Probably all of the valid ones would be similar appointments to when we hired Erik. If there was someone the profile and stature of Pep or Klopp floating around then you’d probably pounce now, but there’s really nobody obvious.
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Post by viking22 on May 29, 2024 10:35:04 GMT
I have serious misgivings over this idea that the Ashworth/Wilcox dictate the players we sign and the style of play.
Wilcox spent most of his career at Blackburn in the 1990s when football was still 4-4-2. Post-football he spent most of his career at Manchester City so you'd imagine the style he'd want would be similar to City's.
But as Erik famously said "I can't play like Ajax because I have different players". And we don't have unlimited funds the way City did. And even with City Pep dictated the style of play and they indulged him no questions asked buying the players he needed to implement it. You can admire the way City play but replicating it is another matter entirely. LVG came the closest to implementing a possession based style but it wasn't that effective because the players we had weren't good enough and we lacked quality in the final third.
Chelsea and Bayern have both been trying to move towards the modern structure with disastrous results. And they both illustrate the issue. You cannot force players on a manager and demand he plays a certain way from the word go but still expect instant results.
And if you look at the players we have in the current squad how many of them are well suited to playing a possession-based style?
Rashford's primary asset is pace and he's devastating on the counter attack. Bruno is a very different player from De Bruyne and his pass completion rate is below 70% (which would be unacceptable in a possession based style) because he is always looking for the killer pass that when it comes off unlocks a defence and finds players in space. Garnacho and Amad both like to take their man on. Scotty is hopeless in possession. And with Varane leaving Martinez is the only defender who can play from the back. So even if we buy 3 new players this summer it will be difficult to implement a style change without having to take a few steps back before we go forward and results could suffer as a result.
And this modern structure idea is untested.
The only clubs that have challenged City in recent years are Arsenal and Liverpool. And their approach seems a lot more collaborative. Instead of taking away all control from the manager and making him a glorified head coach they've supported and backed their manager and his vision and provided checks and balances so that who to sign has been a joint decision rather than an indulgence of the manager's whims.
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