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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 17:42:38 GMT
I love Truth right now, but to be fair I don't think he's a great heel. He is hilarious, but not someone who is going to draw a lot of heat. right. but....with better booking, he could i'm sure. Possibly, but he's kind of up against it on Raw because Punk, Miz and Del Rio are all outstanding heels. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 17:46:37 GMT
yeah there are a few heels on raw. i'm hearing punk will be leaving/taking time off shortly, there have been rumours about a face turn for the miz, so there could be room for another heel towards the top of the card. and that is presumably the direction they are taking with truth, so they need to book him well, or there'll be a sorry turn back to babyface in his near future.
i'm not doubting the talents of the bloke, but he's not gonna rise above bad booking, he just doesn't have the star power or the connection with the crowd required to ride it out if the booking is weak IMO
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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 17:48:43 GMT
The problem with Truth though is that he's quite old and he isn't that great in the ring. Personally I think they'd be better off building up Swagger again or Drew McIntyre, who I've always liked but hasn't been booked very well.
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 17:52:35 GMT
i agree, and sheamus was a cracking heel but that cunt in the production truck doesn't like him, so they buried him. it's a joke
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Post by Bestie on Jun 3, 2011 17:52:45 GMT
i can understand one_loves ill feelings towards a cheesy 80's style babyface in the modern era, and a fully grown man isn't gonna pump his fists at what cena says in his promos or for his cartoon style way he executes certain moves at a time when people are more savvy to the way the business works and have a wider appreciation for what they consider is good work-rate and spots etc. he's also always going to be a scapegoat for the shitty product, simply because he's clearly defined as the top guy. there is also a chronic lack of star power in the company, and he's not got a good selection of top level heels to work with. if Punk had been elevated as THE top heel in the business, which he should be, him and Cena could work a great program, an edgier, more sophisticated program than what we are used to. what i can't accept is criticising cena's ability. he's been asked to take his character in this direction, be a family-friendly action hero, and he does an incredible job of working it. he has good intensity in the ring, sells, fires up, and he does the two things that are more important than an elaborate move-set or a repetoire of spots, he gets a reaction and he draws money, hence he is a bona fide star. he was a phenomenal, edgy character when he was rapping pre-2004, and the 18-30's were into him, and they have a short memory when they say he's useless and he can't work a bit.His character back then was good, but he still couldn't work. There's a clip of Triple H talking about Cena coming to him after one of his first matches to ask how he did. 'H said Cena sucked. He did, and still does. Tommyred, if you think that Cena is the one making others look good in matches, you're watching an alternate dimension to mine. All of Cena's best matches have been with guys who can carry him, not the other way around. A match between Goldberg and Cena would be horrific, for example. You said it yourself about Cena, he shifts merchandise, but he's all promo and no ring. Also, read my post, I specifically clarified that I was completely on board with the face being all heroic and fan favourite-ish. My issue is that Cena isn't a fan favourite and he's shoved down viewers throats as if he is. WWE simply ignore the huge majority of fans who dislike Cena and what he represents. Anyone who has a fraction of a grasp about the business hates Cena. Triple H thinks he's shit, apparently the likes of 'Taker and Shawn Michaels also think he's shit. That tells me everything I need to know really. you'd be the only one. i've got this weeks raw on dailymotion, and truth was getting cheered when he came out ranting on the mic. he stuck a mic in some kids face and he said his old catch-phrase 'what's up' and there was a massive pop. what sort of fucking heel do u call this? One that's feuding with Cena. Precisely. R Truth was doing a really good job, and against anybody else he would have been getting a really negative reaction. As it was, nobody gave a shit because he was doing all this stuff against Cena. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 17:57:32 GMT
the stars do not think cenas shit. the stars you mentioned have made money working with him, and he turns over money for the company and keeps them ticking over at an era where star power is lacking bad. that's all they care about.
your last point is bollocks mate. truth's heel turn has been weak, he's not gonna get heat unless they step it up. miz got heel heat against cena, so it throws your argument out the window
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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 17:58:28 GMT
i agree, and sheamus was a cracking heel but that cunt in the production truck doesn't like him, so they buried him. it's a joke He seems to be slowly getting back on track on Smackdown. But yeah Sheamus was great when he was Champ. A problem they often have is that when a guy loses the title after their first run, they don't seem to know what to do with them and they end up getting dropped (Punk, Sheamus, Swagger). I'm hoping the same doesn't happen to Miz. This A-Ri stuff is interesting though. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 17:59:55 GMT
"anyone with a fraction of a grasp of the business hates cena" wrong mate. common misconception
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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 18:02:02 GMT
Tommyred, if you think that Cena is the one making others look good in matches, you're watching an alternate dimension to mine. All of Cena's best matches have been with guys who can carry him, not the other way around. A match between Goldberg and Cena would be horrific, for example. You said it yourself about Cena, he shifts merchandise, but he's all promo and no ring. Also, read my post, I specifically clarified that I was completely on board with the face being all heroic and fan favourite-ish. My issue is that Cena isn't a fan favourite and he's shoved down viewers throats as if he is. WWE simply ignore the huge majority of fans who dislike Cena and what he represents.. I'm talking week in week out against guys like Cody Rhodes, Jeff Hardy, R-Truth, hell even guys like Heath Slater, just anybody he is facing. I am not even talking match quality right now, I mean he makes his opponent look a threat no matter who they are, something so called greats like HHH never truly mastered. Carry jobs don't really exist, and besides I'd say Cena was the better guy in his matches with the likes of HHH, RVD, Umaga. You've fallen into the trap of thinking wrestling is aimed at YOU and you alone. The idea that it's a "vasy majority" who don't like Cena is ridiculous. The majority of casual fans and people who actually go to the shows love him,and he always gets huge pops even if some people boo him. You must have selective hearing or something. The point about greats of the business not liking him is absolute bullshit, especially as I've heard the likes of Steve Austin and The Rock praise him. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 18:03:13 GMT
right. the rock wouldn't work with him if he didn't rate him. he wouldn't come out of a 7-year absence to kick off a program with him if he was a worthless piece of shit
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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 18:05:13 GMT
Speaking of Austin, does anybody else watch Tough Enough? I think it's a great show that even non-wrestling fans could get into.
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 18:07:39 GMT
watched a bit of the early series years ago, not seen much since
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Post by tommyred on Jun 3, 2011 18:09:23 GMT
watched a bit of the early series years ago, not seen much since The current series is good with Austin, Booker, Demott and Trish. It's the finale next week. Down to 2 and the dude Luke who will probably win has real potential I think. |
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Post by Tatty on Jun 3, 2011 19:44:46 GMT
Are there still people who think HHH is shit?
He carried Taker to a good match at 'Mania. Helped get The Rock and Foley over in the mid-90's, got Austin over as a super-heel, somehow managed to get Batista over too. To say the guy can't carry a match is ridiculous. Sometimes he has stinkers, Steiner and Goldberg come to mind, but that's when he's been a cunt to those guys for whatever reasons.
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 3, 2011 20:04:54 GMT
you can fuck off did he carry taker to a good match ! taker fucking brought it. so did triple H.
to answer your question, no. i don't get the triple H bashers at all. i liked the long-arse promos he used to open raw with during the mcmahon-helmsley and evolution days that people moan about. i didn't get bored of him being in the main event like some others. Triple H is the stuff you build a company around, and i'll be sorry when he's had list last match, but at the same time, i'm looking forward to what he can do for the company when he's running it
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