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Post by Rorschach on Jun 12, 2010 21:28:38 GMT
I thought Capello was brought in to shake things up but he's ended up with the same predictable, flat 4-4-2 formation that every previous manager used with nothing but failure as a result. How the fuck can he seriously play Lampard and Gerrard together when successive coaches utterly failed to get them to work together? They're both attacking midfielders, it leaves no-one to shore up the midfield and protect the back four, it's not fucking rocket science.
Also there's the issue of substitutions. Is this what Capello's Plan B is? Bring on like-for-like players (SWP for Milner, Crouch for Heskey) in the hope that they do something the previous heap of mediocrity failed to do? Other than covering injuries the whole point of substitutions is surely to bring in a different game plan and give the team different options.
Now that King is inevitably injured I think Dawson should be in there. The central pairing of Terry and Carragher has the levels of pace normally seen in a morgue and that was exposed time and again against the USA. I'd also start with a five-man midfield, which for me is the only bloody logical thing to do. Lennon on the right, J.Cole on the left, Barry or Carrick holding the midfield in the centre with Lampard helping out and getting forwards when he can and Gerrard up there supporting Rooney as the lone striker. Heskey shouldn't be anywhere near the starting line-up.
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peejay80
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Post by peejay80 on Jun 12, 2010 21:43:23 GMT
typical typical england. average performance leaving the result down to luck.
no penetration from midfield causing rooney to come deep leaving nothing but Emile 'barn door' Heskey upfront.
and what the fuck is Carracgher doing on that pitch, he had his chance fucking years ago while he was in his prime, he blew it and wasnt good enough then. now he is even slower, what wrong with trying something new. why has dawson gone if he isnt gonna play?
fucking hate england at times. so so very dull to watch. have been for 14 years. not since euro 96 have i been excited by them.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jun 12, 2010 21:46:49 GMT
typical typical england. average performance leaving the result down to luck. no penetration from midfield causing rooney to come deep leaving nothing but Emile 'barn door' Heskey upfront. and what the fuck is Carracgher doing on that pitch, he had his chance fucking years ago while he was in his prime, he blew it and wasnt good enough then. now he is even slower, what wrong with trying something new. why has dawson gone if he isnt gonna play? fucking hate england at times. so so very dull to watch. have been for 14 years. not since euro 96 have i been excited by them. In the matches against Mexico and Japan, that problem has always been there, Rooney having to drop deep to search for the ball, thus leaving someone like Heskey to score(if he can.) I just wish Capello has a go at Rooney and just tells him to stay up front. We all know that Rooney wants to play 100% of the time, and I understand his frustration at having to go back, but he needs to be bloody selfish for his own good. He does enough for the England team already. |
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Post by irishredmufc on Jun 12, 2010 22:20:52 GMT
Milner's confidence must be completely dashed now. I thought Capello's desicion to take him off so early was a bit harsh. He could have left him on until have time anyway. It was also strange brining on SWP ahead of Joe Cole.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jun 12, 2010 22:23:55 GMT
Milner's confidence must be completely dashed now. I thought Capello's desicion to take him off so early was a bit harsh. He could have left him on until have time anyway. It was also strange brining on SWP ahead of Joe Cole. Well, I think Milner was out of his depth, and to be honest, I can't understand why he was replaced by SWP, another one who is out of his depth at this level. Also, on the Joe Cole front, perhaps he is carrying a niggle. |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 12, 2010 22:43:55 GMT
Was Milner not allegedly sick midweek? Couldn't train for three days or something apparently. On Green, I almost feel for the lad. I mean, I wanted U.S.A. to scroe, make it interesting as a neutral (and I mean that, I just want to see cracking football), but not like that. I can only imagine the backpage headlines tomorrow. On Ledley King, do you think that Capello aims to get 45 minutes at a time from King, so he can appear in more games?
Overall, i thought that ITV were their usual deluded selves. England were poor, we can all see that, they didn't desrve to win the game, and the Yanks could easily have exploited Carragher and Terry's lack of pace a lot better second half. Hardly a peep from the lads though, U.S.A. "hung on" for the draw. Balls. That's (one of the reasons) why I hate watching England in tournaments, the coverage turns to shite.
Decent match though.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jun 12, 2010 22:46:54 GMT
Was Milner not allegedly sick midweek? Couldn't train for three days or something apparently. On Green, I almost feel for the lad. I mean, I wanted U.S.A. to scroe, make it interesting as a neutral (and I mean that, I just want to see cracking football), but not like that. I can only imagine the backpage headlines tomorrow. On Ledley King, do you think that Capello aims to get 45 minutes at a time from King, so he can appear in more games? Overall, i thought that ITV were their usual deluded selves. England were poor, we can all see that, they didn't desrve to win the game, and the Yanks could easily have exploited Carragher and Terry's lack of pace a lot better second half. Hardly a peep from the lads though, U.S.A. "hung on" for the draw. Balls. That's (one of the reasons) why I hate watching England in tournaments, the coverage turns to shite. Decent match though. Well, that was the saving grace, the shots. 18 for the England team, and 12 from USA. Makes up from what I saw from France V Uruguay. |
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Post by irishredmufc on Jun 12, 2010 22:56:36 GMT
Was Milner not allegedly sick midweek? Couldn't train for three days or something apparently. On Green, I almost feel for the lad. I mean, I wanted U.S.A. to scroe, make it interesting as a neutral (and I mean that, I just want to see cracking football), but not like that. I can only imagine the backpage headlines tomorrow. On Ledley King, do you think that Capello aims to get 45 minutes at a time from King, so he can appear in more games? Overall, i thought that ITV were their usual deluded selves. England were poor, we can all see that, they didn't desrve to win the game, and the Yanks could easily have exploited Carragher and Terry's lack of pace a lot better second half. Hardly a peep from the lads though, U.S.A. "hung on" for the draw. Balls. That's (one of the reasons) why I hate watching England in tournaments, the coverage turns to shite. Decent match though. Yeah same as myself, I was supporting the U.S and when Green made the howler I half wanted England to win then so there would be no blame put on Green. I know how it feels, making a big error that costs your team the game. I can't imagine how Green is feeling though. |
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peejay80
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Post by peejay80 on Jun 13, 2010 4:38:36 GMT
Why the fuck do we need a target man to get the best out of wayne rooney anyway?
Spain dont have one to get the best out of their strikers, nor do any other team with realistic ambitions of winning the world cup. what those teams do is work the ball forwards through midfield, have patience and control possesion, slip nice through balls in and play one two's
why cant we do that with Lampard, J Cole and that wanker Gerrard in the team? is it because they arent actually as good as the english public and press make them out to be?
because its been 10 years now and im still waiting for them to click, its never going to happen.
fuck target men, target men are for teams that cant play. ( those that rely on aerial ability anyway )
Out of what we have got to chose from play Defoe with Rooney. and for fuck sake drop either Lampard or Gerrard will you, get a holding midfielder in, doesnt have to be industrious, just sit and control.
infact here is my team for the next game.
_______________________Hart_______________
Johnson_______Terry__________Dawson________Cole
_____________________Carrick_______________
Lennon_______________Gerrard_____________J Cole
__________Rooney______________Defoe___.
yes i know Carrick has been shit of late
, but id try it for a couple of games in a row. use Barry, Lampard as subs.
Capello is starting to piss me off, he has brought nothing new to the table what so ever as far as i can see.
shit, the twat was trying to get 36 year old paul scholes back and he brought back carragher.
is it still the year 2000?
rant.....................over.
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Post by Stew on Jun 13, 2010 7:25:04 GMT
Agree with a lot of Peejay post above. Rooney's best season this year has been mostly on his own upfront. Before his injury against Bayern he was masterful in the lone striker role. Gerrard's best football for ages was last year tucked in behind Torres. It's a no-brainer that Capello should start like that with a proper holding player in front of the back four, either Barry or Carrick. That way the England central defenders lack of pace will be given some protection. With Gerrard and Lampard in midfield you are just inviting the opposition to run at your defence which will kill England. If Heskey is in the team the default setting is just to hoof it long. Honestly, I hadn't seen an England game for a long time and it was like we'd gone back in a time warp to the early 80's with the likes of Mark Hatley. Caveman stuff.
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Post by fletchabey on Jun 13, 2010 9:40:20 GMT
Did feel a bit like same old England. something i was worried about when Barry got injured. That said our play wasn't atrocious, there was some decent passing going on. SWP on left seemed a pointless change, surprised it wasn't Cole brought on. Milners inexperience at this level shone out, which was a shame, he deserved a chance but 2 mistimed sliding tackles on the half way line are just pointless.
I'd rather see a 4-3-3 with Rooney up front alone. He doesn't need a Heskey alongside him anymore and i'd rather be bossing the midfield better than hoping someone latches onto a Heskey lay off.
Disturbed by the defense, very worried about King. If he's done himself in we either have no pace Carragher or no experience Dawson. If king is indeed out, i'd rather see Dawson get a run out against Algeria or Slovenia.
i wont slate Cappello, I felt his hand was forced somewhat on the team selection and 2 of the subs. The next 2 games will tell though.
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Post by NR7 on Jun 13, 2010 9:47:50 GMT
@pj
I wasn't having a go at him.. If anything, I was really pissed at the Nigerian defenders for simply admiring Messi and not doing their job.. This is the WC and is it too much to ask defenders to marshal Messi knowing fully well that when afforded the time and space Messi will be devastating.. It's obviously not Messi's fault that defenders don't put in a tackle and he can only beat what's put out in front of him.. No issues at all there.. When I said typical Messi, he is the one player who always has a field day when the teams don't mark him unlike Ronaldo, for instance who has had poor games even against weaker oppositions.. In no way am suggesting that he is a flat track bully. There have been a fair few occasions when inspite of marking him and trying to nullify his threat, he was just too good. That shows that he is World Class and I am sure very very few would disagree.. My argument is that whenever the opposition defence had a measure of him, he went into a shell and did little of note.. Off the top of my head : Inter, Chelsea, us and Rubin Kazan.. In all these matches he was virtually anonymous.. It's unreasonable to expect him to do wonders when there are 3 players marking him all the time but what I really expect from him is to atleast try something different and get into the game.. Like drift inside and pull his marker out of his comfort zone or having a go at a different defender. He is blessed with skills that would be good enough for 90% of the games but in the remaining 10% or so, if he keeps trying & trying (a la Rooney) but stills is ineffective, fair enough but so far, I have not seen him do enough when the going gets tough.. Personally, I would pick Ronaldo over Messi every-time but that doesn't imply Messi is shite.. What it means is that I prefer one world class player over another.. Btw, aren't ppl allowed to have the same opinions regarding someone or something ? You seemed to be alluding that I was merely jumping on the bandwagon and not making my own argument.. FYI, whenever possible, I have watched Barca in action for the best part of three years and I definitely have seen enough of Messi to judge him.. I will leave this discussion at that lest we get into trouble for veering off topic and cluttering the thread.. If you wish to continue the discussion further, either of us could bump a relevant thread...
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jun 13, 2010 9:57:54 GMT
@pj I wasn't having a go at him.. If anything, I was really pissed at the Nigerian defenders for simply admiring Messi and not doing their job.. This is the WC and is it too much to ask defenders to marshal Messi knowing fully well that when afforded the time and space Messi will be devastating.. It's obviously not Messi's fault that defenders don't put in a tackle and he can only beat what's put out in front of him.. No issues at all there.. When I said typical Messi, he is the one player who always has a field day when the teams don't mark him unlike Ronaldo, for instance who has had poor games even against weaker oppositions.. In no way am suggesting that he is a flat track bully. There have been a fair few occasions when inspite of marking him and trying to nullify his threat, he was just too good. That shows that he is World Class and I am sure very very few would disagree.. My argument is that whenever the opposition defence had a measure of him, he went into a shell and did little of note.. Off the top of my head : Inter, Chelsea, us and Rubin Kazan.. In all these matches he was virtually anonymous.. It's unreasonable to expect him to do wonders when there are 3 players marking him all the time but what I really expect from him is to atleast try something different and get into the game.. Like drift inside and pull his marker out of his comfort zone or having a go at a different defender. He is blessed with skills that would be good enough for 90% of the games but in the remaining 10% or so, if he keeps trying & trying (a la Rooney) but stills is ineffective, fair enough but so far, I have not seen him do enough when the going gets tough.. Personally, I would pick Ronaldo over Messi every-time but that doesn't imply Messi is shite.. What it means is that I prefer one world class player over another.. Btw, aren't ppl allowed to have the same opinions regarding someone or something ? You seemed to be alluding that I was merely jumping on the bandwagon and not making my own argument.. FYI, whenever possible, I have watched Barca in action for the best part of three years and I definitely have seen enough of Messi to judge him.. I will leave this discussion at that lest we get into trouble for veering off topic and cluttering the thread.. If you wish to continue the discussion further, either of us could bump a relevant thread... Amen to that!!! Perhaps you should create a thread with relation to Ronaldo and Messi, their attributes and their weaknesses etc. To be honest, you hit the nail on the head when you said that, when Messi is marked out of the game, he is ineffective. Only exceptionnal players are capable of not being marked out of the game i.e Best. This is why I have my doubts about Messi in the premier league. Anyway, I see a 1-0 to Slovenia against Algeria today, hopefully. |
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keano77
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Post by keano77 on Jun 13, 2010 10:04:38 GMT
Capello has looked something different but fell into the same trap as his predessors. It´s like he´s being bullish and trying to make a point: "you couldn´t make this midfield work, but I sure as hell can!" He couldn´t. As Heskey and Rooney up front. I think it could work, but the old long ball is not very pleasing to watch. if Rooney had the patience to hang in there closer to Bruno they could click, hell they´ve done it before. SWP was totally useless. I was very surprised that J.Cole didn´t start. Anyways. England are fucked, as usual. Gerrard and Lampard won´t work, central defensively too slow. Keeper made a gigantic fuck up. Hey ho...confidence! Capello will have a trick up his sleeve. NOT! Second round and then home. Change of manager, same players, same results in the Euro 2012. But you´re still the most interesting team to follow ´cause of the press and all the hyping up before the tournament. Then the team selection.  It´s always a fucking circus. I LOVE IT. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jun 13, 2010 10:10:44 GMT
Capello has looked something different but fell into the same trap as his predessors. It´s like he´s being bullish and trying to make a point: "you couldn´t make this midfield work, but I sure as hell can!" He couldn´t. As Heskey and Rooney up front. I think it could work, but the old long ball is not very pleasing to watch. if Rooney had the patience to hang in there closer to Bruno they could click, hell they´ve done it before. SWP was totally useless. I was very surprised that J.Cole didn´t start. Anyways. England are fucked, as usual. Gerrard and Lampard won´t work, central defensively too slow. Keeper made a gigantic fuck up. Hey ho...confidence! Capello will have a trick up his sleeve. NOT! Second round and then home. Change of manager, same players, same results in the Euro 2012. But you´re still the most interesting team to follow ´cause of the press and all the hyping up before the tournament. Then the team selection. It´s always a fucking circus. I LOVE IT. Thats just it, the way we saw Gerrard play for the 1st 10 minutes, scoring a goal and winning challenge after challenge was the way Wazza was playing before his injury. I didn't see any of that last night like it was as if he was holding back all the time. If this is the case, this doesn't bode well for Rooney and the England team. As I said, Gerrard started well, but after 10 minutes, when the USA found their rythym, he went AWOL, thus encouraging Rooney to drop deep to look for the ball each time. |
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