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Post by oscared on Dec 10, 2020 8:51:44 GMT
You have to look at the Leipzig players who are relative unknowns to our players and what can be achieved with good coaching and actual physical effort.
Ole looks a beaten man now Iv seen that face before.. Moyes towards the end slumped deep onto his seat.
Hope its over soon.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 10, 2020 9:16:29 GMT
And what's your opinion of Ole? Who has zero trophies and better players? He's been here one full season, and inherited a squad littered with deadwood. Would any manager have beaten the scouse for the league last season? Ole is fairly inexperienced at this level, and has obviously made mistakes. The next manager will make mistakes too. SAF did. This is not even a defense of Ole. Just pointing out what for me is a poor argument from the "sack him" corner. Inexperienced at this level is one of the main reasons he should never have got the job. Draw a line between OGS the player & OGS the manager. Any other manager performing as poorly as he is,would be long gone. The crowd control experiment has gone pretty much to plan for the Glazers & Woodward,save them money & control the masses was the reason they gave him the job,he didn't get the job because he was the best man.
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Post by viking22 on Dec 10, 2020 9:45:47 GMT
Ole inherited a squad that in the previous season had finished 2nd in the league with a points total of over 80 and in the season before that won two major trophies. He was allowed to splash £80M on Maguire and £50M on Fernandes and also benefited from the emergence of Greenwood and the further maturation of Rashford. So I think it is difficult to refute the claim he is underachieving with the resources at his disposal.
He only managed 66 points last season which in most years wouldn't have been enough for top 4. He lost two semi-finals. And in typical fashion after fantastic results against PSG and Leipzig he managed to lose in Istanbul and then needing only a point from the return fixtures against PSG and Leipzig managed to lose both games conceding six goals in the process. Put simply he is not a safe pair of hands.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 10, 2020 10:19:08 GMT
I said it yesterday & i'll say it again,anyone with a shred of doubt about OGS only needs to Google Nangelman's post match interview to the English speaking press.
He is asked how he turned around a humiliating defeat at OT to knocking us out on Tuesday.
He is clear & concise in how they looked at their defeat,looked at us & worked on a tactical plan which nobody can argue they executed pretty well.
The other thing to take from his interview, is that it light years away from anything OGS has ever had to say because he clearly has sound understanding of coaching & tactics.
He can't bat away questions with nonsense like History,Culture,DNA,Family,Sir Alex,Giggsy,Scholesy ,Becks etc .
What has to say is not rocket science but it's clear who is decent manager & coach.
Then listen to OGS post match it will be very clear to anyone within seconds who the bluffer is.
Give it a listen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 11:31:41 GMT
Ole inherited a squad that in the previous season had finished 2nd in the league with a points total of over 80 and in the season before that won two major trophies. He was allowed to splash £80M on Maguire and £50M on Fernandes and also benefited from the emergence of Greenwood and the further maturation of Rashford. So I think it is difficult to refute the claim he is underachieving with the resources at his disposal. He only managed 66 points last season which in most years wouldn't have been enough for top 4. He lost two semi-finals. And in typical fashion after fantastic results against PSG and Leipzig he managed to lose in Istanbul and then needing only a point from the return fixtures against PSG and Leipzig managed to lose both games conceding six goals in the process. Put simply he is not a safe pair of hands. Ole inherited a squad full of garbage left by his predecessors who spent the club's transfer funds on dross, otherwise Maguire would have arrived here before Ole.
Ole is stuck with dross on huge long-term contracts.
Ole signed Fernandes.
Ole gave Greenwood a run in the first team and reaped the rewards.
Ole got from Rashford what Jose and his negative football couldn't.
Ole got us back into the top 4 after his predecessor left us in midtable the season before.
I don't disagree that there are fair arguments against sticking with Ole. I was merely pointing out that a mixture of half-truths is painful on the eyes and misses the point. Criticism is one thing, but what I read here is a complete revisionism and inability to give Ole any credit for the obvious improvement we have seen in the last year or so.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 11:33:21 GMT
He's been here one full season, and inherited a squad littered with deadwood. Would any manager have beaten the scouse for the league last season? Ole is fairly inexperienced at this level, and has obviously made mistakes. The next manager will make mistakes too. SAF did. This is not even a defense of Ole. Just pointing out what for me is a poor argument from the "sack him" corner. Inexperienced at this level is one of the main reasons he should never have got the job. Draw a line between OGS the player & OGS the manager. Any other manager performing as poorly as he is,would be long gone. The crowd control experiment has gone pretty much to plan for the Glazers & Woodward,save them money & control the masses was the reason they gave him the job,he didn't get the job because he was the best man. We're 5 points from the top with a game in hand. It's December. Have we ever sacked a manager while in this position?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 11:43:08 GMT
I said it yesterday & i'll say it again,anyone with a shred of doubt about OGS only needs to Google Nangelman's post match interview to the English speaking press. He is asked how he turned around a humiliating defeat at OT to knocking us out on Tuesday. He is clear & concise in how they looked at their defeat,looked at us & worked on a tactical plan which nobody can argue they executed pretty well. The other thing to take from his interview, is that it light years away from anything OGS has ever had to say because he clearly has sound understanding of coaching & tactics. He can't bat away questions with nonsense like History,Culture,DNA,Family,Sir Alex,Giggsy,Scholesy ,Becks etc . What has to say is not rocket science but it's clear who is decent manager & coach. Then listen to OGS post match it will be very clear to anyone within seconds who the bluffer is. Give it a listen. I thought the way they controlled the game at OT for 60 minutes was a lot more impressive than anything they did on Tuesday night. They got spanked. Fans (by reading/listening to the media) are fickle. Ole came out of the game as a genius. On Tuesday we defended like a pub team. Fuck that tactical plan. DDG did not have a save to make other than the poorly defended goals. There were fine margins in this group. We lost it in Istanbul with another dreadful defensive display. It has nothing to do with any wonders from Nagelsmann. Fair play to him, he beat us in a football game. We've won something like 12 of our last 14 games away from home. Would you have changed your opinion on Ole if he had blabbered on tactics after each one of them?
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Post by Paul on Dec 10, 2020 11:48:53 GMT
You have to look at the Leipzig players who are relative unknowns to our players and what can be achieved with good coaching and actual physical effort. Ole looks a beaten man now Iv seen that face before.. Moyes towards the end slumped deep onto his seat. Hope its over soon. Problem is all of the shit is landing on Ole at the moment. Now I'm not defending him, you cant defend that shit Tuesday night. It was a tactical nightmare. However whilst he has his faults some of the blame also has to put at the feet of the players. People can't JUST blame the manager. They shouldn't need a coach to teach them basic defending or how to put the ball in the net. The piss poor defending against Istanbul, on Tuesday night and even against PSG cost us just as much as the poor tactics. The wasteful chances aren't down to the manager either and we've wasted some bloody good chances during games this season so far. Everything is a mess both on the pitch and off it.
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Post by redcase on Dec 10, 2020 11:49:00 GMT
Ole inherited a squad that in the previous season had finished 2nd in the league with a points total of over 80 and in the season before that won two major trophies. He was allowed to splash £80M on Maguire and £50M on Fernandes and also benefited from the emergence of Greenwood and the further maturation of Rashford. So I think it is difficult to refute the claim he is underachieving with the resources at his disposal. He only managed 66 points last season which in most years wouldn't have been enough for top 4. He lost two semi-finals. And in typical fashion after fantastic results against PSG and Leipzig he managed to lose in Istanbul and then needing only a point from the return fixtures against PSG and Leipzig managed to lose both games conceding six goals in the process. Put simply he is not a safe pair of hands. Ole inherited a squad full of garbage left by his predecessors who spent the club's transfer funds on dross, otherwise Maguire would have arrived here before Ole.
Ole is stuck with dross on huge long-term contracts. - He has also given dross long term contracts.Ole signed Fernandes. - Yeah, real gem he unearthed there. Proper shrewd buy that one.Ole gave Greenwood a run in the first team and reaped the rewards. - He'd be an even bigger div not to. Greenwood was setting the youth leagues on fire.Ole got from Rashford what Jose and his negative football couldn't. - Debatable, but fair.Ole got us back into the top 4 after his predecessor left us in midtable the season before. - His predecessor took us to 2nd on 81 points the season before. Ole has never crossed 70.I don't disagree that there are fair arguments against sticking with Ole. I was merely pointing out that a mixture of half-truths is painful on the eyes and misses the point. Criticism is one thing, but what I read here is a complete revisionism and inability to give Ole any credit for the obvious improvement we have seen in the last year or so. Your "obvious improvement" is complete and utter conjecture. We have scored the same number of goals in each of his seasons in the premier league since he took over, and he still hasn't got us to score more goals than Jose did when he finished second. Absolutely zero evidence.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 10, 2020 11:52:53 GMT
Inexperienced at this level is one of the main reasons he should never have got the job. Draw a line between OGS the player & OGS the manager. Any other manager performing as poorly as he is,would be long gone. The crowd control experiment has gone pretty much to plan for the Glazers & Woodward,save them money & control the masses was the reason they gave him the job,he didn't get the job because he was the best man. We're 5 points from the top with a game in hand. It's December. Have we ever sacked a manager while in this position? No,regrettably we are probably stuck with him for the season.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 10, 2020 11:54:43 GMT
I said it yesterday & i'll say it again,anyone with a shred of doubt about OGS only needs to Google Nangelman's post match interview to the English speaking press. He is asked how he turned around a humiliating defeat at OT to knocking us out on Tuesday. He is clear & concise in how they looked at their defeat,looked at us & worked on a tactical plan which nobody can argue they executed pretty well. The other thing to take from his interview, is that it light years away from anything OGS has ever had to say because he clearly has sound understanding of coaching & tactics. He can't bat away questions with nonsense like History,Culture,DNA,Family,Sir Alex,Giggsy,Scholesy ,Becks etc . What has to say is not rocket science but it's clear who is decent manager & coach. Then listen to OGS post match it will be very clear to anyone within seconds who the bluffer is. Give it a listen. I thought the way they controlled the game at OT for 60 minutes was a lot more impressive than anything they did on Tuesday night. They got spanked. Fans (by reading/listening to the media) are fickle. Ole came out of the game as a genius. On Tuesday we defended like a pub team. Fuck that tactical plan. DDG did not have a save to make other than the poorly defended goals. There were fine margins in this group. We lost it in Istanbul with another dreadful defensive display. It has nothing to do with any wonders from Nagelsmann. Fair play to him, he beat us in a football game. We've won something like 12 of our last 14 games away from home. Would you have changed your opinion on Ole if he had blabbered on tactics after each one of them? They were very impressive at OT & some said they were unlucky to lose that game,some never claimed OGS to be a tactical genius,especially when that is very obviously not the case.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 12:20:36 GMT
Ole inherited a squad full of garbage left by his predecessors who spent the club's transfer funds on dross, otherwise Maguire would have arrived here before Ole.
Ole is stuck with dross on huge long-term contracts. - He has also given dross long term contracts- Did he? Do you reckon he is responsible for renewing contracts (e.g. Matic, Pereira?). Personally, I'm not sure.Ole signed Fernandes. - Yeah, real gem he unearthed there. Proper shrewd buy that one- Wasn't it? Haven't we failed with promising signings before? are you referring to our own expertise on RoM? We were all sucking each other's dicks when Alexis was signed. Forgive Ole for not counting on our collective know how.Ole gave Greenwood a run in the first team and reaped the rewards. - He'd be an even bigger div not to. Greenwood was setting the youth leagues on fire- Haven't we seen tons of players who did, only to to end up not fulfilling the promise at top level? Ole may not be some's cup of tea, why why not crediting him with this one is beyond me.Ole got from Rashford what Jose and his negative football couldn't. - Debatable, but fair.Ole got us back into the top 4 after his predecessor left us in midtable the season before. - His predecessor took us to 2nd on 81 points the season before. Ole has never crossed 70. There are no trophies for points total. If I was blindly defending Ole I'd say the league was shite that season Jose finished second, but in all honesty we'd want a larger sample of seasons for a reasonable comparison. Thankfully, we didn't get that with Jose. I doubt we will with Ole.I don't disagree that there are fair arguments against sticking with Ole. I was merely pointing out that a mixture of half-truths is painful on the eyes and misses the point. Criticism is one thing, but what I read here is a complete revisionism and inability to give Ole any credit for the obvious improvement we have seen in the last year or so. Your "obvious improvement" is complete and utter conjecture. We have scored the same number of goals in each of his seasons in the premier league since he took over, and he still hasn't got us to score more goals than Jose did when he finished second. Absolutely zero evidence. I am beginning to enjoy our football again. I tell what I see. we're obviously far from the finished article, but I can honestly say that when we were 2:0 and 1:0 down at Southampton and West Ham recently I had a feeling that we could turn the games on their head. I haven't had that feeling since Fergie's days. For me that is the right direction. Still some way to go. We defend poorly, we have midfielders who offer zero threat, and we have limited funds available for fixing this hence the slowish process. I'd hate to see another manager under the bus for a "project restart"
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Post by Bestie on Dec 10, 2020 13:13:00 GMT
You have to look at the Leipzig players who are relative unknowns to our players and what can be achieved with good coaching and actual physical effort. Ole looks a beaten man now Iv seen that face before.. Moyes towards the end slumped deep onto his seat. Hope its over soon. Problem is all of the shit is landing on Ole at the moment. Now I'm not defending him, you cant defend that shit Tuesday night. It was a tactical nightmare. However whilst he has his faults some of the blame also has to put at the feet of the players. People can't JUST blame the manager. They shouldn't need a coach to teach them basic defending or how to put the ball in the net. The piss poor defending against Istanbul, on Tuesday night and even against PSG cost us just as much as the poor tactics. The wasteful chances aren't down to the manager either and we've wasted some bloody good chances during games this season so far. Everything is a mess both on the pitch and off it. People aren't just blaming the manager. Ole's inability to do the job is simply the most actionable thing to be fixed.
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Post by redcase on Dec 10, 2020 13:14:56 GMT
1. Yes, if he says he doesn't want them renewed, they don't get renewed. I have not seen any evidence otherwise that management dictates who he can discard. They dictate who he can sign, yes, but with regard to renewing contracts, I don't believe so. 2. Nothing shrewd about it. He had to be signed - he was that talented. Shrewd is United punting on Ronaldo when there was very little evidence of what he would evolve into. Can't credit someone for doing their job especially when they've just done the bare minimum. You want so desperately to credit him for signing Bruno then also blame him for signing fucking Maguire at 90 million while Jose was clamoring for him while his price was 50. 3. I was correcting you on what you wrote about Ole's predecessor leaving the club midtable the season before. He didn't so you were wrong - we finished second. Also, we won 3 trophies with Jose what the fuck have we won with Ole? 4. And what on earth are you on about with the enjoyable football nonsense? We had enjoyable football for 8 months after he joined. What's enjoyable about the football we're playing? Have a look at the match threads 70% of them is oblivion and despair. We're shit and we have no gameplan, what is enjoyable about that? Just because we sneak through with comeback results doesn't make our football enjoyable or moving in any positive direction. We've conceded 17 goals in the Premier League and 10 in the Champions League what in honest to heavens are you enjoying? Are you mistaking having his gormless smiling face at interviews instead of Jose's sour mug as some form of enjoyment?
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Post by Bestie on Dec 10, 2020 13:15:27 GMT
I love it when people go on about "obvious improvement" and revisionism in the same post by the way.
Absolute genius that.
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