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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 13:41:06 GMT
1. Yes, if he says he doesn't want them renewed, they don't get renewed. I have not seen any evidence otherwise that management dictates who he can discard. They dictate who he can sign, yes, but with regard to renewing contracts, I don't believe so. 2. Nothing shrewd about it. He had to be signed - he was that talented. Shrewd is United punting on Ronaldo when there was very little evidence of what he would evolve into. Can't credit someone for doing their job especially when they've just done the bare minimum. You want so desperately to credit him for signing Bruno then also blame him for signing fucking Maguire at 90 million while Jose was clamoring for him while his price was 50. 3. I was correcting you on what you wrote about Ole's predecessor leaving the club midtable the season before. He didn't so you were wrong - we finished second. Also, we won 3 trophies with Jose what the fuck have we won with Ole? 4. And what on earth are you on about with the enjoyable football nonsense? We had enjoyable football for 8 months after he joined. What's enjoyable about the football we're playing? Have a look at the match threads 70% of them is oblivion and despair. We're shit and we have no gameplan, what is enjoyable about that? Just because we sneak through with comeback results doesn't make our football enjoyable or moving in any positive direction. We've conceded 17 goals in the Premier League and 10 in the Champions League what in honest to heavens are you enjoying? Are you mistaking having his gormless smiling face at interviews instead of Jose's sour mug as some form of enjoyment? 1. So the whole business about the club extending players' contracts so they don't walk out for free is a myth?
2. I'm sure Fergie got credit for signing Roy Keane. Wasn't exactly a wild punt. C'mon, Veron was talented too. You obviously can't give Ole any credit whatsoever, but I'm sure you'd agree neither he or Jose didn't negotiate with Leicester for Maguire.
3. This is what Ole got when he got here: "United are sixth in the Premier League, but closer in terms of points to the relegation zone than to leaders Liverpool, who beat them 3-1 on Sunday." Technically, not midtable, practically, much worse.
4. I don't watch interviews. They bore the shit out of me, so this has nothing to do with faces. Our defence is all over the place more often than not, and this is on Ole. We've had an excellent defensive record last season, and he is responsible for fixing the current shitshow. Despite that, we are still pretty close to our rivals which means that we find ways to outscore the opposition more often than not.
I don't judge managers based on cup competitions. We had enough chances to win the EL SF last season. It's not on Ole that we missed them. Martial alone should have got us top spot in this CL group despite what happened in Istanbul. I wouldn't sack Ole because Martial missed an open goal twice.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 10, 2020 15:41:45 GMT
1. Yes, if he says he doesn't want them renewed, they don't get renewed. I have not seen any evidence otherwise that management dictates who he can discard. They dictate who he can sign, yes, but with regard to renewing contracts, I don't believe so. 2. Nothing shrewd about it. He had to be signed - he was that talented. Shrewd is United punting on Ronaldo when there was very little evidence of what he would evolve into. Can't credit someone for doing their job especially when they've just done the bare minimum. You want so desperately to credit him for signing Bruno then also blame him for signing fucking Maguire at 90 million while Jose was clamoring for him while his price was 50. 3. I was correcting you on what you wrote about Ole's predecessor leaving the club midtable the season before. He didn't so you were wrong - we finished second. Also, we won 3 trophies with Jose what the fuck have we won with Ole? 4. And what on earth are you on about with the enjoyable football nonsense? We had enjoyable football for 8 months after he joined. What's enjoyable about the football we're playing? Have a look at the match threads 70% of them is oblivion and despair. We're shit and we have no gameplan, what is enjoyable about that? Just because we sneak through with comeback results doesn't make our football enjoyable or moving in any positive direction. We've conceded 17 goals in the Premier League and 10 in the Champions League what in honest to heavens are you enjoying? Are you mistaking having his gormless smiling face at interviews instead of Jose's sour mug as some form of enjoyment? 1. So the whole business about the club extending players' contracts so they don't walk out for free is a myth? 2. I'm sure Fergie got credit for signing Roy Keane. Wasn't exactly a wild punt. C'mon, Veron was talented too. You obviously can't give Ole any credit whatsoever, but I'm sure you'd agree neither he or Jose didn't negotiate with Leicester for Maguire. 3. This is what Ole got when he got here: "United are sixth in the Premier League, but closer in terms of points to the relegation zone than to leaders Liverpool, who beat them 3-1 on Sunday." Technically, not midtable, practically, much worse.
4. I don't watch interviews. They bore the shit out of me, so this has nothing to do with faces. Our defence is all over the place more often than not, and this is on Ole. We've had an excellent defensive record last season, and he is responsible for fixing the current shitshow. Despite that, we are still pretty close to our rivals which means that we find ways to outscore the opposition more often than not. I don't judge managers based on cup competitions. We had enough chances to win the EL SF last season. It's not on Ole that we missed them. Martial alone should have got us top spot in this CL group despite what happened in Istanbul. I wouldn't sack Ole because Martial missed an open goal twice.
1. I don't believe conversations with the manager re contract renewals/extensions extend beyond'is this player firmly in you're plans' after that they purely commercial driven decisions made above the manager. 2.Football has changed,pretty sure most managers back in the day got credit for signing players,if OGS said he wanted Bruno then,he deserves the credit for that,but didn't Jose also want him in his time at the club? Perhaps OGS should shoulder some of the blame Maguire & Dan James? 3.Are we closer to Liverpool or the relegation zone than when Ole arrived? In terms of points closer to Liverpool in currently,but not even at the 1/2 way stage of season yet.In terms of a quality & as a side,we are further away from them,than when he arrived. 4.The buck stops with the manager re all performance issues be it good or bad,team or individual related. You mention Martial missing two sitters,I blame OGS his job to prepare the players,improve them & coach them to be better, maybe Lukaku would have buried both chances? If Martial had buried both chances OGS would have getting the credit for improving him & sticking with him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 16:15:52 GMT
1. So the whole business about the club extending players' contracts so they don't walk out for free is a myth? 2. I'm sure Fergie got credit for signing Roy Keane. Wasn't exactly a wild punt. C'mon, Veron was talented too. You obviously can't give Ole any credit whatsoever, but I'm sure you'd agree neither he or Jose didn't negotiate with Leicester for Maguire. 3. This is what Ole got when he got here: "United are sixth in the Premier League, but closer in terms of points to the relegation zone than to leaders Liverpool, who beat them 3-1 on Sunday." Technically, not midtable, practically, much worse.
4. I don't watch interviews. They bore the shit out of me, so this has nothing to do with faces. Our defence is all over the place more often than not, and this is on Ole. We've had an excellent defensive record last season, and he is responsible for fixing the current shitshow. Despite that, we are still pretty close to our rivals which means that we find ways to outscore the opposition more often than not. I don't judge managers based on cup competitions. We had enough chances to win the EL SF last season. It's not on Ole that we missed them. Martial alone should have got us top spot in this CL group despite what happened in Istanbul. I wouldn't sack Ole because Martial missed an open goal twice.
1. I don't believe conversations with the manager re contract renewals/extensions extend beyond'is this player firmly in you're plans' after that they purely commercial driven decisions made above the manager. 2.Football has changed,pretty sure most managers back in the day got credit for signing players,if OGS said he wanted Bruno then,he deserves the credit for that,but didn't Jose also want him in his time at the club? Perhaps OGS should shoulder some of the blame Maguire & Dan James? 3.Are we closer to Liverpool or the relegation zone than when Ole arrived? In terms of points closer to Liverpool in currently,but not even at the 1/2 way stage of season yet.In terms of a quality & as a side,we are further away from them,than when he arrived. 4.The buck stops with the manager re all performance issues be it good or bad,team or individual related. You mention Martial missing two sitters,I blame OGS his job to prepare the players,improve them & coach them to be better, maybe Lukaku would have buried both chances? If Martial had buried both chances OGS would have getting the credit for improving him & sticking with him. 1. We agree here 2. Here too... including responsibility for the underwhelming signings. I still think Maguire was better than what we had. He is still our best CB. Price was not Ole’s fault. 3. We are pretty far from them. Pains me to say, but in a way they’re in a league of their own in my opinion. 4. You don’t coach toe poking into an empty net, but I guess we’ll happily disagree here rather than regurgitate previous posts. Funny you mention Lukaku though... watch how he cost Inter CL qualification last night with 2 minutes to go. Hilarious. Lucky bastards finished bottom of their group and don’t have to play Thursday nights though
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Post by oscared on Dec 10, 2020 16:56:37 GMT
You have to look at the Leipzig players who are relative unknowns to our players and what can be achieved with good coaching and actual physical effort. Ole looks a beaten man now Iv seen that face before.. Moyes towards the end slumped deep onto his seat. Hope its over soon. Problem is all of the shit is landing on Ole at the moment. Now I'm not defending him, you cant defend that shit Tuesday night. It was a tactical nightmare. However whilst he has his faults some of the blame also has to put at the feet of the players. People can't JUST blame the manager. They shouldn't need a coach to teach them basic defending or how to put the ball in the net. The piss poor defending against Istanbul, on Tuesday night and even against PSG cost us just as much as the poor tactics. The wasteful chances aren't down to the manager either and we've wasted some bloody good chances during games this season so far. Everything is a mess both on the pitch and off it. True it’s not just about Ole but he will ultimately pay the price for them under achieving, my point was a good manager “should” get a tune out of that lot and Ole can’t.
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Post by johnboy14 on Dec 10, 2020 19:30:27 GMT
Im still miffed at him after Tuesday. Had he done a half decent job with team selection and tactics we would be in the CL draw. Ed is to blame for the Pogba situation, the fact its gotten to this stage with him and his agent is an epic failure once again by shit head.
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Post by cantonaisgod on Dec 10, 2020 19:57:45 GMT
I still can't believe we fucked up had qualification in the bag. Thought he set the team up wrong on tue we should have played the diamond and attacked them from the off. Fucking Thursday night football sigh.
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Post by oscared on Dec 10, 2020 20:45:52 GMT
We needed one point from the last two games, one lousy point.
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Post by dazjoe on Dec 10, 2020 20:51:37 GMT
I try to judge Ole as subjectively as I can, and for me the main points he should be judged on are:
- Has the squad improved from when he took over to now? - Have the players improved from where they were to now? - Have results improved from where they were to now? - Is there a clear discernable plan in place where we can feel optimistic about the future under Ole?
1 - Has the squad improved. Well, of the players who were at OT when Ole took over, Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Young, Herrera, Valencia, Fellaini, and Darmian are gone, with Pereira and Dalot currently out on loan. Meanwhile, AWB, Maguire, James, Fernandes, Telles, Cavani and DVB have come in. Pellestri is also here and could be included I suppose even though he's yet to play for the 1st team, and Diallo should be coming next month.
So has it improved? I'd say so. Not by much but it is slightly better; Valencia, Young, Darmian, Fellaini and Sanchez in particular had to go. But only Fernandes of the players in has so far really done much to improve the team, AWB has done OK (started well but gone backwards, just my opinion) and VDB, Telles and Cavani all look like they'll do well and have major parts to play but as of this moment in time they haven't played enough games to really judge. So fair enough, Ole has done reasonable in this aspect.
2 - Have players improved? Some have, a lot of others haven't. Rashford is performing better, Martial did last season but is in a right slump now, Fred has come right on, Greenwood has developed. Has Fernandes taken his game to another level? Probably yeah, he was already playing so well in Portugal but the Premier League is a tougher league so OK, I'll say Fernandes has upped his game. Any one else? Maybe Matic, he put some top performances in last season. Defensively, are any of our lot playing better than they were at their former clubs? AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw? AWB and Maguire haven't kicked on from Palace and Leicester. Shaw is pretty much still at the same level he was at as an 18 year old at Southampton. Lindelof and Bailly? I never watched them before signing for United but I find it impossible to believe they could have been playing like they are now and we thought "Yup, that's the one, get him signed". This is what players were supposed to do to; come from the lesser clubs like Palace or Southampton or Leicester and take their game to new levels at United, like Irwin, Ince, Robson, Keane, Parker, Bruce, etc, etc. What's going on that this lot haven't? De Gea has continued an endless downward slump under Ole. McTominay is OK but not performing any better than he was under Jose for me. Pogba continues to be an utter nothingness (I won't put that on Ole though). If James has improved then Jesus he must have been serious shite at Swansea. Lingard played the football of his life before Ole arrived and now looks like he's had a stroke and completely forgotten how to kick a football.
So, nope. Far too few players are improving under Ole, far too many are in a slump or actively regressing. Not good enough.
3 - Have results improved? Well, in the season Jose was sacked he had amassed 26 points from 17 games, or 1.5 points per game. The remainder of that season under Ole we got 40 points from 21 games, or 1.9 points per game. So clear improvement to begin with. Last season, it was 66 points from 38 games, that's 1.7 points per game. And currently this season is 19 points from 10 games, or 1.9 points per game. So yes, results have improved under Ole. Not to the level we need to be at however; 1.9 points per game over a season gets you to 72 points, which might get top 4 if you're lucky, but has absolutely no chance of winning the league, ever.
So yes, slight improved, but not enough.
4 - Is there really a plan? For transfers I think there is. We've mainly focused on young players, signing a heap of those and beefing up the U18's/U23's. But on the pitch? Not so much. Other than try and use pace to hit teams on the counter, or just "give it to Bruno" when playing teams who sit deep. We still look disjointed, disorganised and one dimensional. We're as bad defensively as I've ever seen, yet seem to continue to just believe that playing Maguire and Lindelof will magically make everything better one day, despite all evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile a player like Tuanzebe gets one chance, playing away against Mbappe and Neymar, plays brilliant and is pretty much MOTM, and then is dropped never to be seen again.
All in all, couple of decent areas for Ole, couple of poor ones. I can understand why some people think he still needs more time, and it's fair enough. But not for me, too little signs of improvement unfortunately.
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Post by Stretty on Dec 10, 2020 20:57:43 GMT
We are just run shit from the coaching staff up.
Owners who couldn’t give a fuck as long as the money keeps rolling in
A CEO as above
A nostalgic appointed manager in way over his head.
Clueless coaching staff(2 of them being more nostalgic appointments)
And most fans think we should do things differently than other clubs(the UTD way)
The last 3 points are holding the club back by living on past glories and not moving with the times.
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Post by Stretty on Dec 10, 2020 21:06:01 GMT
I try to judge Ole as subjectively as I can, and for me the main points he should be judged on are: - Has the squad improved from when he took over to now? - Have the players improved from where they were to now? - Have results improved from where they were to now? - Is there a clear discernable plan in place where we can feel optimistic about the future under Ole? 1 - Has the squad improved. Well, of the players who were at OT when Ole took over, Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Young, Herrera, Valencia, Fellaini, and Darmian are gone, with Pereira and Dalot currently out on loan. Meanwhile, AWB, Maguire, James, Fernandes, Telles, Cavani and DVB have come in. Pellestri is also here and could be included I suppose even though he's yet to play for the 1st team, and Diallo should be coming next month. So has it improved? I'd say so. Not by much but it is slightly better; Valencia, Young, Darmian, Fellaini and Sanchez in particular had to go. But only Fernandes of the players in has so far really done much to improve the team, AWB has done OK (started well but gone backwards, just my opinion) and VDB, Telles and Cavani all look like they'll do well and have major parts to play but as of this moment in time they haven't played enough games to really judge. So fair enough, Ole has done reasonable in this aspect. 2 - Have players improved? Some have, a lot of others haven't. Rashford is performing better, Martial did last season but is in a right slump now, Fred has come right on, Greenwood has developed. Has Fernandes taken his game to another level? Probably yeah, he was already playing so well in Portugal but the Premier League is a tougher league so OK, I'll say Fernandes has upped his game. Any one else? Maybe Matic, he put some top performances in last season. Defensively, are any of our lot playing better than they were at their former clubs? AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw? AWB and Maguire haven't kicked on from Palace and Leicester. Shaw is pretty much still at the same level he was at as an 18 year old at Southampton. Lindelof and Bailly? I never watched them before signing for United but I find it impossible to believe they could have been playing like they are now and we thought "Yup, that's the one, get him signed". This is what players were supposed to do to; come from the lesser clubs like Palace or Southampton or Leicester and take their game to new levels at United, like Irwin, Ince, Robson, Keane, Parker, Bruce, etc, etc. What's going on that this lot haven't? De Gea has continued an endless downward slump under Ole. McTominay is OK but not performing any better than he was under Jose for me. Pogba continues to be an utter nothingness (I won't put that on Ole though). If James has improved then Jesus he must have been serious shite at Swansea. Lingard played the football of his life before Ole arrived and now looks like he's had a stroke and completely forgotten how to kick a football. So, nope. Far too few players are improving under Ole, far too many are in a slump or actively regressing. Not good enough. 3 - Have results improved? Well, in the season Jose was sacked he had amassed 26 points from 17 games, or 1.5 points per game. The remainder of that season under Ole we got 40 points from 21 games, or 1.9 points per game. So clear improvement to begin with. Last season, it was 66 points from 38 games, that's 1.7 points per game. And currently this season is 19 points from 10 games, or 1.9 points per game. So yes, results have improved under Ole. Not to the level we need to be at however; 1.9 points per game over a season gets you to 72 points, which might get top 4 if you're lucky, but has absolutely no chance of winning the league, ever. So yes, slight improved, but not enough. 4 - Is there really a plan? For transfers I think there is. We've mainly focused on young players, signing a heap of those and beefing up the U18's/U23's. But on the pitch? Not so much. Other than try and use pace to hit teams on the counter, or just "give it to Bruno" when playing teams who sit deep. We still look disjointed, disorganised and one dimensional. We're as bad defensively as I've ever seen, yet seem to continue to just believe that playing Maguire and Lindelof will magically make everything better one day, despite all evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile a player like Tuanzebe gets one chance, playing away against Mbappe and Neymar, plays brilliant and is pretty much MOTM, and then is dropped never to be seen again. All in all, couple of decent areas for Ole, couple of poor ones. I can understand why some people think he still needs more time, and it's fair enough. But not for me, too little signs of improvement unfortunately. good post your points highlight just where we want to be going as a club. If we had ambitious owners ole would have at best just seen out that season when Jose was fired.
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Post by gdmm on Dec 10, 2020 21:43:52 GMT
I thought the way they controlled the game at OT for 60 minutes was a lot more impressive than anything they did on Tuesday night. They got spanked. Fans (by reading/listening to the media) are fickle. Ole came out of the game as a genius. On Tuesday we defended like a pub team. Fuck that tactical plan. DDG did not have a save to make other than the poorly defended goals. There were fine margins in this group. We lost it in Istanbul with another dreadful defensive display. It has nothing to do with any wonders from Nagelsmann. Fair play to him, he beat us in a football game. We've won something like 12 of our last 14 games away from home. Would you have changed your opinion on Ole if he had blabbered on tactics after each one of them? They were very impressive at OT & some said they were unlucky to lose that game,some never claimed OGS to be a tactical genius,especially when that is very obviously not the case. 5-0 is not an unlucky result.
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Post by aussiegraham on Dec 11, 2020 5:02:07 GMT
It's obvious that Ole is out of his depth, and also that the club is poisoned from the neck up.
I've had times under his management that I've enjoyed watching us play again, some real exciting perfomances and for that I thank him (I truly struggle to think of any games that got my blood flowing under the previous 3 appointments, who all contributed to my loss of interest and desire in the club, and even the game in general).
It's the Jekyll and Hyde like rollercoaster that's pushing me into the "out" camp. Consistency, organisation and a clear playing structure are what I'm now pining for. Bring it on ASAP.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 7:01:20 GMT
I try to judge Ole as subjectively as I can, and for me the main points he should be judged on are: - Has the squad improved from when he took over to now? - Have the players improved from where they were to now? - Have results improved from where they were to now? - Is there a clear discernable plan in place where we can feel optimistic about the future under Ole? 1 - Has the squad improved. Well, of the players who were at OT when Ole took over, Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Young, Herrera, Valencia, Fellaini, and Darmian are gone, with Pereira and Dalot currently out on loan. Meanwhile, AWB, Maguire, James, Fernandes, Telles, Cavani and DVB have come in. Pellestri is also here and could be included I suppose even though he's yet to play for the 1st team, and Diallo should be coming next month. So has it improved? I'd say so. Not by much but it is slightly better; Valencia, Young, Darmian, Fellaini and Sanchez in particular had to go. But only Fernandes of the players in has so far really done much to improve the team, AWB has done OK (started well but gone backwards, just my opinion) and VDB, Telles and Cavani all look like they'll do well and have major parts to play but as of this moment in time they haven't played enough games to really judge. So fair enough, Ole has done reasonable in this aspect. 2 - Have players improved? Some have, a lot of others haven't. Rashford is performing better, Martial did last season but is in a right slump now, Fred has come right on, Greenwood has developed. Has Fernandes taken his game to another level? Probably yeah, he was already playing so well in Portugal but the Premier League is a tougher league so OK, I'll say Fernandes has upped his game. Any one else? Maybe Matic, he put some top performances in last season. Defensively, are any of our lot playing better than they were at their former clubs? AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw? AWB and Maguire haven't kicked on from Palace and Leicester. Shaw is pretty much still at the same level he was at as an 18 year old at Southampton. Lindelof and Bailly? I never watched them before signing for United but I find it impossible to believe they could have been playing like they are now and we thought "Yup, that's the one, get him signed". This is what players were supposed to do to; come from the lesser clubs like Palace or Southampton or Leicester and take their game to new levels at United, like Irwin, Ince, Robson, Keane, Parker, Bruce, etc, etc. What's going on that this lot haven't? De Gea has continued an endless downward slump under Ole. McTominay is OK but not performing any better than he was under Jose for me. Pogba continues to be an utter nothingness (I won't put that on Ole though). If James has improved then Jesus he must have been serious shite at Swansea. Lingard played the football of his life before Ole arrived and now looks like he's had a stroke and completely forgotten how to kick a football. So, nope. Far too few players are improving under Ole, far too many are in a slump or actively regressing. Not good enough. 3 - Have results improved? Well, in the season Jose was sacked he had amassed 26 points from 17 games, or 1.5 points per game. The remainder of that season under Ole we got 40 points from 21 games, or 1.9 points per game. So clear improvement to begin with. Last season, it was 66 points from 38 games, that's 1.7 points per game. And currently this season is 19 points from 10 games, or 1.9 points per game. So yes, results have improved under Ole. Not to the level we need to be at however; 1.9 points per game over a season gets you to 72 points, which might get top 4 if you're lucky, but has absolutely no chance of winning the league, ever. So yes, slight improved, but not enough. 4 - Is there really a plan? For transfers I think there is. We've mainly focused on young players, signing a heap of those and beefing up the U18's/U23's. But on the pitch? Not so much. Other than try and use pace to hit teams on the counter, or just "give it to Bruno" when playing teams who sit deep. We still look disjointed, disorganised and one dimensional. We're as bad defensively as I've ever seen, yet seem to continue to just believe that playing Maguire and Lindelof will magically make everything better one day, despite all evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile a player like Tuanzebe gets one chance, playing away against Mbappe and Neymar, plays brilliant and is pretty much MOTM, and then is dropped never to be seen again. All in all, couple of decent areas for Ole, couple of poor ones. I can understand why some people think he still needs more time, and it's fair enough. But not for me, too little signs of improvement unfortunately. Excellent post. We may not agree on everything, but this is turning into an interesting disscussion rather than exchange of one-line insults.
I absolutely agree that our coaching staff appears to be defensively clueless. The scouse hired a fucking throw-in coach, and we don't appear to have a coach who would slap AWB when he insists on hugging the CBs. He has regressed lately, and Maguire is rightfully under fire too. No idea what is wrong with DDG, but Ole has adressed that by recalling Dean Henderson who can't be far from getting a first team place. Totally agree about Tuanzebe/Lindelof. Maguire looks shite, but who wouldn't having to play with Lindelof, Shaw and a regressing AWB in a back four?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 7:04:12 GMT
They were very impressive at OT & some said they were unlucky to lose that game,some never claimed OGS to be a tactical genius,especially when that is very obviously not the case. 5-0 is not an unlucky result. It wasn't, but they lost discipline towards the end which is why the scoreline flattered us. They were the better side for a good hour.
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Post by kstandhand on Dec 11, 2020 7:04:55 GMT
I try to judge Ole as subjectively as I can, and for me the main points he should be judged on are: - Has the squad improved from when he took over to now? - Have the players improved from where they were to now? - Have results improved from where they were to now? - Is there a clear discernable plan in place where we can feel optimistic about the future under Ole? 1 - Has the squad improved. Well, of the players who were at OT when Ole took over, Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Young, Herrera, Valencia, Fellaini, and Darmian are gone, with Pereira and Dalot currently out on loan. Meanwhile, AWB, Maguire, James, Fernandes, Telles, Cavani and DVB have come in. Pellestri is also here and could be included I suppose even though he's yet to play for the 1st team, and Diallo should be coming next month. So has it improved? I'd say so. Not by much but it is slightly better; Valencia, Young, Darmian, Fellaini and Sanchez in particular had to go. But only Fernandes of the players in has so far really done much to improve the team, AWB has done OK (started well but gone backwards, just my opinion) and VDB, Telles and Cavani all look like they'll do well and have major parts to play but as of this moment in time they haven't played enough games to really judge. So fair enough, Ole has done reasonable in this aspect. 2 - Have players improved? Some have, a lot of others haven't. Rashford is performing better, Martial did last season but is in a right slump now, Fred has come right on, Greenwood has developed. Has Fernandes taken his game to another level? Probably yeah, he was already playing so well in Portugal but the Premier League is a tougher league so OK, I'll say Fernandes has upped his game. Any one else? Maybe Matic, he put some top performances in last season. Defensively, are any of our lot playing better than they were at their former clubs? AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw? AWB and Maguire haven't kicked on from Palace and Leicester. Shaw is pretty much still at the same level he was at as an 18 year old at Southampton. Lindelof and Bailly? I never watched them before signing for United but I find it impossible to believe they could have been playing like they are now and we thought "Yup, that's the one, get him signed". This is what players were supposed to do to; come from the lesser clubs like Palace or Southampton or Leicester and take their game to new levels at United, like Irwin, Ince, Robson, Keane, Parker, Bruce, etc, etc. What's going on that this lot haven't? De Gea has continued an endless downward slump under Ole. McTominay is OK but not performing any better than he was under Jose for me. Pogba continues to be an utter nothingness (I won't put that on Ole though). If James has improved then Jesus he must have been serious shite at Swansea. Lingard played the football of his life before Ole arrived and now looks like he's had a stroke and completely forgotten how to kick a football. So, nope. Far too few players are improving under Ole, far too many are in a slump or actively regressing. Not good enough. 3 - Have results improved? Well, in the season Jose was sacked he had amassed 26 points from 17 games, or 1.5 points per game. The remainder of that season under Ole we got 40 points from 21 games, or 1.9 points per game. So clear improvement to begin with. Last season, it was 66 points from 38 games, that's 1.7 points per game. And currently this season is 19 points from 10 games, or 1.9 points per game. So yes, results have improved under Ole. Not to the level we need to be at however; 1.9 points per game over a season gets you to 72 points, which might get top 4 if you're lucky, but has absolutely no chance of winning the league, ever. So yes, slight improved, but not enough. 4 - Is there really a plan? For transfers I think there is. We've mainly focused on young players, signing a heap of those and beefing up the U18's/U23's. But on the pitch? Not so much. Other than try and use pace to hit teams on the counter, or just "give it to Bruno" when playing teams who sit deep. We still look disjointed, disorganised and one dimensional. We're as bad defensively as I've ever seen, yet seem to continue to just believe that playing Maguire and Lindelof will magically make everything better one day, despite all evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile a player like Tuanzebe gets one chance, playing away against Mbappe and Neymar, plays brilliant and is pretty much MOTM, and then is dropped never to be seen again. All in all, couple of decent areas for Ole, couple of poor ones. I can understand why some people think he still needs more time, and it's fair enough. But not for me, too little signs of improvement unfortunately. Excellent post. We may not agree on everything, but this is turning into an interesting disscussion rather than exchange of one-line insults. I absolutely agree that our coaching staff appears to be defensively clueless. The scouse hired a fucking throw-in coach, and we don't appear to have a coach who would slap AWB when he insists on hugging the CBs. He has regressed lately, and Maguire is rightfully under fire too. No idea what is wrong with DDG, but Ole has adressed that by recalling Dean Henderson who can't be far from getting a first team place. Totally agree about Tuanzebe/Lindelof. Maguire looks shite, but who wouldn't having to play with Lindelof, Shaw and a regressing AWB in a back four?
Except that the win rate has not improved,Jose had a 3% higher win rate than OGS has now,which is 2% higher than what did for Moyes. So no results have not improved.
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