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Post by johnboy14 on Oct 6, 2014 16:28:20 GMT
Another big game and another loss to a team managed by Mourinho. Anytime I see Wenger now I can't help but associate him with Brian Clough, if he was to leave tomorrow what would his legacy be?. The emirates and 3 premier league titles?. I'll admit he changed English football but any other big club and that includes ours would of changed manager years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 7:48:03 GMT
Another big game and another loss to a team managed by Mourinho. Anytime I see Wenger now I can't help but associate him with Brian Clough, if he was to leave tomorrow what would his legacy be?. The emirates and 3 premier league titles?. I'll admit he changed English football but any other big club and that includes ours would of changed manager years ago. It's probably a fair assessment, only without the batshit mentalism that Cloughie brought to the game. I kind of respect that they have stood by him though. They have played intermittently great football, and, as you said, it's rare to see in the modern game. |
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Post by Rorschach on Oct 9, 2014 11:48:44 GMT
Honestly I think Wenger should have gone years ago. Like you say he made huge changes to the English game, a lot of them bringing fantastic improvements in health, fitness, nutrition and professionalism. The problem is that he has his one philosophy and refuses to change it.
He had that perfect blend of power, pace, skill and creativity in the mid-late 90's with Viera, Bergkamp, Henry, Overmars, Petit, Pires etc.. but since then he has completely failed to replicate that. If we think we've been complaining a long time about having a lightweight, easily-bullied midfield then think how Arsenal fans must feel; it has applied to their entire team for years, not just the midfield.
On their day Arsenal can produce some beautiful football but that's often all they do. It's almost become a cliche but it rings true; get stuck into Arsenal and they crumble. Not only are they physically fragile but they're mentally weak too; every year they go through a purple patch of playing wonderful football, the Arsenal-loving press inevitably starts creaming themselves over it and then BAM, they crumble, the title bid falls apart and they end up in 4th, the only consolation being that they finished above Spurs and maybe had a decent cup run.
They need a fresh approach. Wenger is out of ideas and has banked on his earlier success and reputation for far too long. It definitely reminds me of Clough and even though I despised Arsenal at the height of our rivalry with them, it's never nice to see a once-great manager on the decline like that, and again as much as I hated Arsenal, nothing since has really matched that intensity and fierceness for me. The battles between Keane and Viera, the arguments over who was better out of van Nistelrooy and Henry, the 1999 FA Cup semi-final replay, Neville and Viera's bust-up in the tunnel followed by Keane stepping in, Keown screaming in Ruud's face after the missed penalty etc.. I kinda miss it.
The rise of City helped bring back that intensity a bit and of course there's always been Liverpool and, to an extent, Chelsea. However the matches against City, while fierce, always felt kind of hollow knowing that City bought their way to success rather than built, like Arsenal and United had. The hatred, passion and fierceness was there but not the mutual respect. It's there to an extent with Liverpool I guess, but their flirtations with renewed greatness over the past 15-20 years have been brief flashes in the pan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 11:58:37 GMT
Nope, he's not won the European cup  |
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Post by Bestie on Oct 9, 2014 12:06:06 GMT
Honestly I think Wenger should have gone years ago. Like you say he made huge changes to the English game, a lot of them bringing fantastic improvements in health, fitness, nutrition and professionalism. The problem is that he has his one philosophy and refuses to change it. He had that perfect blend of power, pace, skill and creativity in the mid-late 90's with Viera, Bergkamp, Henry, Overmars, Petit, Pires etc.. but since then he has completely failed to replicate that. If we think we've been complaining a long time about having a lightweight, easily-bullied midfield then think how Arsenal fans must feel; it has applied to their entire team for years, not just the midfield. On their day Arsenal can produce some beautiful football but that's often all they do. It's almost become a cliche but it rings true; get stuck into Arsenal and they crumble. Not only are they physically fragile but they're mentally weak too; every year they go through a purple patch of playing wonderful football, the Arsenal-loving press inevitably starts creaming themselves over it and then BAM, they crumble, the title bid falls apart and they end up in 4th, the only consolation being that they finished above Spurs and maybe had a decent cup run. They need a fresh approach. Wenger is out of ideas and has banked on his earlier success and reputation for far too long. It definitely reminds me of Clough and even though I despised Arsenal at the height of our rivalry with them, it's never nice to see a once-great manager on the decline like that, and again as much as I hated Arsenal, nothing since has really matched that intensity and fierceness for me. The battles between Keane and Viera, the arguments over who was better out of van Nistelrooy and Henry, the 1999 FA Cup semi-final replay, Neville and Viera's bust-up in the tunnel followed by Keane stepping in, Keown screaming in Ruud's face after the missed penalty etc.. I kinda miss it.The rise of City helped bring back that intensity a bit and of course there's always been Liverpool and, to an extent, Chelsea. However the matches against City, while fierce, always felt kind of hollow knowing that City bought their way to success rather than built, like Arsenal and United had. The hatred, passion and fierceness was there but not the mutual respect. It's there to an extent with Liverpool I guess, but their flirtations with renewed greatness over the past 15-20 years have been brief flashes in the pan. This exactly. The rivalries we've had in the last decade have been city and Chelsea and those only happened because city and Chelsea have essentially financially doped themselves to get where they are. They're false contenders. I never recognised it at the time - too young, too embroiled in the animosity! - but Arsenal were like us in that they had built themselves into challengers. The only part of it I disagree with is the mutal respect for Liverpool. I don't have any. Their supporters for the most part are absolutely pathetic and it's endemic from the top down at that lot. |
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Post by Rorschach on Oct 9, 2014 12:10:13 GMT
I think there perhaps is some respect in that Liverpool are also a team with a trophy-laden history but one which wasn't built by unlimited funds from a sugar daddy, it was earned. They've had their share of very dark periods in their history but I have some respect for any team which manages to be so successful without buying it. Other than that I fucking hate them, successful or not, albeit mainly their awful fans more than the club itself.
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Post by Bestie on Oct 9, 2014 12:15:35 GMT
I think there perhaps is some respect in that Liverpool are also a team with a trophy-laden history but one which wasn't built by unlimited funds from a sugar daddy, it was earned. They've had their share of very dark periods in their history but I have some respect for any team which manages to be so successful without buying it. Other than that I fucking hate them, successful or not, albeit mainly their awful fans more than the club itself. You know, no-one ever talks about Moores and the Littlewoods Football Pools money being used to fund Liverpool during their most successful period ... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 12:24:05 GMT
Honestly I think Wenger should have gone years ago. Like you say he made huge changes to the English game, a lot of them bringing fantastic improvements in health, fitness, nutrition and professionalism. The problem is that he has his one philosophy and refuses to change it. He had that perfect blend of power, pace, skill and creativity in the mid-late 90's with Viera, Bergkamp, Henry, Overmars, Petit, Pires etc.. but since then he has completely failed to replicate that. If we think we've been complaining a long time about having a lightweight, easily-bullied midfield then think how Arsenal fans must feel; it has applied to their entire team for years, not just the midfield. On their day Arsenal can produce some beautiful football but that's often all they do. It's almost become a cliche but it rings true; get stuck into Arsenal and they crumble. Not only are they physically fragile but they're mentally weak too; every year they go through a purple patch of playing wonderful football, the Arsenal-loving press inevitably starts creaming themselves over it and then BAM, they crumble, the title bid falls apart and they end up in 4th, the only consolation being that they finished above Spurs and maybe had a decent cup run. They need a fresh approach. Wenger is out of ideas and has banked on his earlier success and reputation for far too long. It definitely reminds me of Clough and even though I despised Arsenal at the height of our rivalry with them, it's never nice to see a once-great manager on the decline like that, and again as much as I hated Arsenal, nothing since has really matched that intensity and fierceness for me. The battles between Keane and Viera, the arguments over who was better out of van Nistelrooy and Henry, the 1999 FA Cup semi-final replay, Neville and Viera's bust-up in the tunnel followed by Keane stepping in, Keown screaming in Ruud's face after the missed penalty etc.. I kinda miss it. The rise of City helped bring back that intensity a bit and of course there's always been Liverpool and, to an extent, Chelsea. However the matches against City, while fierce, always felt kind of hollow knowing that City bought their way to success rather than built, like Arsenal and United had. The hatred, passion and fierceness was there but not the mutual respect. It's there to an extent with Liverpool I guess, but their flirtations with renewed greatness over the past 15-20 years have been brief flashes in the pan. Don't forget pizza-gate |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 12:24:39 GMT
Nope, he's not won the European cup they have been cheated out of it to be fair at least once, I'm talking about the red card at the Nou Camp for kicking the ball away |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 12:27:46 GMT
Nope, he's not won the European cup they have been cheated out of it to be fair at least once, I'm talking about the red card at the Nou Camp for kicking the ball away Agent Robin  |
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Post by Rorschach on Oct 9, 2014 12:31:06 GMT
I think there perhaps is some respect in that Liverpool are also a team with a trophy-laden history but one which wasn't built by unlimited funds from a sugar daddy, it was earned. They've had their share of very dark periods in their history but I have some respect for any team which manages to be so successful without buying it. Other than that I fucking hate them, successful or not, albeit mainly their awful fans more than the club itself. You know, no-one ever talks about Moores and the Littlewoods Football Pools money being used to fund Liverpool during their most successful period ... True, I had forgotten about that actually. Fuck them then! I redact them from my original statement! |
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Post by CaajScot on Oct 9, 2014 13:04:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 13:13:12 GMT
To be fair, There injury list isn't that big at all. It just looks worse because its the only players you see week in and week out since they have 0 depth in the squad
we have two more injuries compared to them
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Post by Rorschach on Oct 9, 2014 14:16:55 GMT
It's because Wenger has a core first 11, which is a mixture of experience and youth and then from the sub bench downwards it's just all unheard-of, unproven youngsters. Now obviously that can work well, look at how well Blackett and McNair have performed, but they're both big, strong young guys and they're inexperienced but mixed in with a very experienced first team overall. At Arsenal it's almost all flimsy little flair players from obscure European teams who, while technically brilliant, are physically and mentally frail.
It's something that concerns me with United at the moment. There's lots of technical brilliance, pace and excitement but in the midfield in particular there's no power, strength or grit. The current Arsenal team is the same and also has a situation where they have no real leaders in their squad, which is how I feel about the current United team.
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Post by ratbag on Oct 9, 2014 16:22:24 GMT
It's because Wenger has a core first 11, which is a mixture of experience and youth and then from the sub bench downwards it's just all unheard-of, unproven youngsters. Now obviously that can work well, look at how well Blackett and McNair have performed, but they're both big, strong young guys and they're inexperienced but mixed in with a very experienced first team overall. At Arsenal it's almost all flimsy little flair players from obscure European teams who, while technically brilliant, are physically and mentally frail. It's something that concerns me with United at the moment. There's lots of technical brilliance, pace and excitement but in the midfield in particular there's no power, strength or grit. The current Arsenal team is the same and also has a situation where they have no real leaders in their squad, which is how I feel about the current United team. Disagree slightly...Blind has grit and I also think Herrera has something about him...not monsters by any means but I reckon they can hold their own against many if not most midfields. Still would like a bit of an enforcer though... |
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