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Post by bushy1987 on Feb 5, 2018 15:48:05 GMT
The thing with asking pogba to do that role is everybody knows he cant play it, its different asking a ji sung park type of player to do a specific role because he would run all day pogba isnt that type of player
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Post by redcase on Feb 5, 2018 15:57:32 GMT
Dropping Pogba was a bit OTT IMO. Mourinho hasn't learned his lesson that Pogba can't play in a two against a good team especially away and shouldn't have to. Pogbas best game was against Everton, in a 3 on the left with Herrera and Matic. He's an out and out attacking player and awful in defence. Mourinho has had 18 months with him and that hasn't changed, but he still makes the mistake of setting up like that. He should stick to that MF 3 with Pogba, Matic and (McTominay or Herrera) I've said this before the City game. Also he needs to let's say "rotate" Lukaku more, so we can play that MF 3 and Rashford, Martial and Sanchez as a front 3 in bigger games, maybe sometimes with Lingard instead of Rashford. 4-3-3 looks best for us and we have the players for it in big games. It's a big call with Lukaku, but with him leading the line there is no fluidity You are totally missing the point about him getting dropped. He wasn't dropped because of a bad performance, he was probably dropped because he didn't maintain positional discipline like the manager wanted it and he openly argued with the manager when he was told to do as he is asked. The manager's instructions must be followed regardless of what Paul Pogba thinks. That is paramount. What do you think Ferguson would have done? I mean, have we forgotten how ruthless he was? What Pogba did would not fly in the Ferguson era, why do we expect it to fly with Mourinho and why should it ? Tactics is a totally different thing, and of which I am in agreement with you. Pogba should play in a midfield 3. But Pogba must follow the manager's instructions when told. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Feb 5, 2018 17:35:32 GMT
Dropping Pogba was a bit OTT IMO. Mourinho hasn't learned his lesson that Pogba can't play in a two against a good team especially away and shouldn't have to. Pogbas best game was against Everton, in a 3 on the left with Herrera and Matic. He's an out and out attacking player and awful in defence. Mourinho has had 18 months with him and that hasn't changed, but he still makes the mistake of setting up like that. He should stick to that MF 3 with Pogba, Matic and (McTominay or Herrera) I've said this before the City game. Also he needs to let's say "rotate" Lukaku more, so we can play that MF 3 and Rashford, Martial and Sanchez as a front 3 in bigger games, maybe sometimes with Lingard instead of Rashford. 4-3-3 looks best for us and we have the players for it in big games. It's a big call with Lukaku, but with him leading the line there is no fluidity You are totally missing the point about him getting dropped. He wasn't dropped because of a bad performance, he was probably dropped because he didn't maintain positional discipline like the manager wanted it and he openly argued with the manager when he was told to do as he is asked. The manager's instructions must be followed regardless of what Paul Pogba thinks. That is paramount. What do you think Ferguson would have done? I mean, have we forgotten how ruthless he was? What Pogba did would not fly in the Ferguson era, why do we expect it to fly with Mourinho and why should it ? Tactics is a totally different thing, and of which I am in agreement with you. Pogba should play in a midfield 3. But Pogba must follow the manager's instructions when told. All true and fair. The tactics were crap, but it isn’t Pogba’s place to say that, certainly during the game of all times. |
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Post by WhatsTheMata on Feb 5, 2018 21:43:53 GMT
I have no issues with Pogba being dropped for not obeying the tactics. In fact, we were crying for the managers to drop players to teach them a lesson.
Most of us disagree with Mourinho's 4-2-3-1, but a player should do whatever the manager asks him to do.
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Post by WhatsTheMata on Feb 6, 2018 18:07:26 GMT
I have no issues with Pogba being dropped for not obeying the tactics. In fact, we were crying for the managers to drop players to teach them a lesson. Most of us disagree with Mourinho's 4-2-3-1, but a player should do whatever the manager asks him to do. Yes, but not that player. Drop Lukaku for fuck's sake and build the goddamn team around the world-class player. Should Lukaku be dropped to put Martial or Rashford upfront once in a while, and rotate them? Yes. But that doesn't change the touchline spat. When your boss gives you an order, you don't go against him just because it isn't your will, you do it regardless. If that was the real reason, I have no problems with it. As supporters, we can say anything, think whatever we want, moan etc as this is our club and there's no hierarchy between us. That's a bit different for players. Tbf I don't believe much in the whole 'punishment' thing because as a manager, you'd be ultimately punishing yourself. Plus, any game time for McTominay is precious to his development, and it must start somewhere. |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 6, 2018 18:23:43 GMT
Mourinho saw an opportunity to make a point to Pogba, give a youth product a start, and get three points. All in the same match.
Pogba isn't going to be dropped from the regular starting XI any time soon.
Let's not make something out of nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 21:20:26 GMT
I have no issues with Pogba being dropped for not obeying the tactics. In fact, we were crying for the managers to drop players to teach them a lesson. Most of us disagree with Mourinho's 4-2-3-1, but a player should do whatever the manager asks him to do. Yes, but not that player. Drop Lukaku for fuck's sake and build the goddamn team around the world-class player. Deserved to be dropped imo. |
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Post by redcase on Feb 7, 2018 16:05:42 GMT
Deserved to be dropped imo. The whole fucking team deserved to be dropped, why single out Pogba who was assigned a role that anyone who even casually watches football would know he can't perform? It is a fallacy to say that Pogba can only be played in 1 position. When we were ravaged by injury Fergie called upon Carrick and other midfielders to deputise in CB. They did it sans complaint. That's something you just do for your team . Work for the unit , not for yourself. Pogba , with his abundance of ability, can most definitely play at CM for a game when instructed by the manager. In thus case , it was more of "can't do it , or won't do It?". Add to that the manner of his disobedience and subsequent impudence, and he warranted his ban. |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 7, 2018 16:13:55 GMT
Deserved to be dropped imo. The whole fucking team deserved to be dropped, why single out Pogba who was assigned a role that anyone who even casually watches football would know he can't perform? How fucking difficult is it to comprehend being dropped was almost certainly not because Pogba had an absolute shocker. It was because he failed to fulfil the instructions his manager gave him. Or worse, wilfully ignored them, which is the more likely. You do the job your manager tells you to. If you try your best but you're crap at it, people can blame the manager. Swanning off out of position regardless of what you manager tells you is entirely on the player. Good Zeus, this is not a complicated concept. |
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Post by bushy1987 on Feb 7, 2018 17:32:21 GMT
Pogba not doing a job is one thing the bigger problem that needs to be adressed is the weak mentality in these big away games and the shite performances in them
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Post by redcase on Feb 7, 2018 17:42:37 GMT
Pogba not doing a job is one thing the bigger problem that needs to be adressed is the weak mentality in these big away games and the shite performances in them I think a good way to start would be to make it very clear that the manager's game plan has to be respected from the start  |
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Post by caino on Feb 7, 2018 20:34:43 GMT
put your handbags away, lads.
imo, Jose was right to drop pogba. he was shite and he didn't follow instructions. regardless of jose playing a wank system, getting the tactics wrong, etc. we also won the game and McTominay played well. Pogba got a rest, an awakening and he will go into the next games raring to go. or should he should be.
pogba needs to develop his defensive side, in big away games, you defend and do the dirty side of the game before attacking. this is his biggest weakness imo.
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Post by WhatsTheMata on Feb 7, 2018 20:53:50 GMT
"I change a few players and the intention was not to punish anyone," Mourinho said. "Because to punish anyone I also need someone to punish me because we are a team and when we win we win together and we lose together.
"But I made a few changes thinking about the characteristics of this game and I think this kid [McTominay] has a great desire to recover the ball when the team is not in possession, he's a kid that chases the ball, that tries to recover high up the pitch and when he has the ball it is always simple and against opponents like Huddersfield, so close and with so many bodies behind the ball, the simplicity sometimes is genius.
"You don't have space, you have to open spaces by playing simple, so was a decision to play the kid but Paul came on very, very well with a great attitude with the spaces that we had at that time because we were winning 1-0 and Paul could show his talents and his qualities.
"I always try to do what is best for the team in any moment. I prefer to look at it in the beautiful way of a little kid that arrived here with his mum at nine-years-old for the first training session, 10 or 11 years later the kid is playing in a Manchester United shirt in an important match in the Premier League at home at Old Trafford, so I prefer to look at that perspective.
"Paul is a fantastic player, no doubt for me one of the most talented midfield players in the world but to sit on the bench one day is not the end of the world."
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There. Not a major calamity. And I still stand that if this was the case of a disobedient player, Mourinho was completely right to show autorithy.
Also, if we don't start giving youth players a chance on first team on games like Huddersfield when the league seems to be gone - to see if they fit the squad/starting XI - then we are ditching our DNA.
Now can we please have a civil discussion over stuff? Christ. We shouldn't be biting each other, taking it all personally, we should be united to bite the vile scum that hate us.
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Post by ratbag on Feb 8, 2018 7:33:00 GMT
Now can we please have a civil discussion over stuff? Christ. We shouldn't be biting each other, taking it all personally, we should be united to bite the vile scum that hate us. This...I'm all for lively debate but some of the stuff on here gets personal and we lose (IMO) some valuable members of the forum as a result... So chill people...it should be us against the world... |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 8, 2018 10:56:50 GMT
How fucking difficult is it to comprehend being dropped was almost certainly not because Pogba had an absolute shocker. It was because he failed to fulfil the instructions his manager gave him. Or worse, wilfully ignored them, which is the more likely. You do the job your manager tells you to. If you try your best but you're crap at it, people can blame the manager. Swanning off out of position regardless of what you manager tells you is entirely on the player. Good Zeus, this is not a complicated concept. "...almost certainly..." So now you're fucking psychic, awesome. So, Mystic Meg, got the lottery numbers? Since we don't know what happened, when one commenter says Pogba needs to be dropped for being bad, and I say the whole team deserved to be dropped for that specific reason, it's not fucking rocket science either, buddy boy. I defer to the manager. "[McTominay] has a great desire to recover the ball when the team is not in possession" |
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