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Post by Karma on Feb 15, 2018 12:10:13 GMT
Well Roy Keane disagrees and basically says he should be able to play in a 2 or a 3. He should be good enough to do either. Are you secretly that guy who was obsessed with Roy Keane  I've mentioned him once. |
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Post by Karma on Feb 15, 2018 12:34:52 GMT
Playing a midfield 3 makes a lot of sense and would suit many of our key players well, but I also think that Pogba should be able to do a good job in a midfield 2 when we're playing games that are supposed to be more comfortable, because he is a good enough player and is supported by good enough players. I'm mostly bothered with the decision to continuously play a midfield 2 in tough away games against teams that are going to be playing with a midfield 3. What makes this even worse is that it doesn't work at all and we keep getting completely overrun in midfield and lose these games (or we somehow manage to scrape a goalless tie). What's the point? The reason I'm not getting upset over the 2 versus 3 situation is because I don't think it's the main reason we are falling behind the likes of Liverpool and Spurs in terms of performances. Its kind of the same argument fans have when they argue that if only they had player X and Y they'd be doing better. For any Red caf fans there used to be a thread about slow Zombie passing. It's as relevant now as was then. Look at the difference between how quickly we move and pass the ball compared to the likes of those mentioned earlier. It was creeping into the games under Fergie and it has got worse. When you see some teams going forward you can see players running into space to receive the ball. How often do we do that? Often ours are looking round for a team mate, more often than not it ends up being passed back. We can't accommodate Lingard, Martial and Sanchez so that needs to stop. Imo Lingard is a winger not a no10. If you want to play Martial and Lingard on the wings then Sanchez might be able to drift around in more of a free role. I would rather see Pogba in a 3 but I agree with Keane that he should be able to do both. Young needs dropping and Shaw get a run of games. Jones and Smalling together needs to stop. They both bring out the worst in each other, in the long term both need selling. Look at the difference now City have addressed their full back positions. We need to do the same. Ours don't get forward enough, don't take a man on enough and very rarely put a decent cross into the box. Look at how good Evra and Rafael were at getting forward and creating chances. Lukaku would have loved to have played with those two at their peak. He's having the same problem Rooney did, feeding on scraps. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 12:44:56 GMT
I need to mention that Pogba is in the wrong for openly having it out with Jose on the side of the pitch. If I have a problem with something I'm asked to do, I do it first and speak later in private.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 12:57:04 GMT
I need to mention that Pogba is in the wrong for openly having it out with Jose on the side of the pitch. If I have a problem with something I'm asked to do, I do it first and speak later in private. It's too late if he waits until they can talk privately, maybe he had a valid point? If your manager asked you do do something you know/think wouldn't work, would you not debate it? I would. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 13:14:35 GMT
I need to mention that Pogba is in the wrong for openly having it out with Jose on the side of the pitch. If I have a problem with something I'm asked to do, I do it first and speak later in private. It's too late if he waits until they can talk privately, maybe he had a valid point? If your manager asked you do do something you know/think wouldn't work, would you not debate it? I would. No, infront of people I would absolutly do what I was asked and not argue with my boss like that. It's career limiting. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 13:17:35 GMT
It's too late if he waits until they can talk privately, maybe he had a valid point? If your manager asked you do do something you know/think wouldn't work, would you not debate it? I would. No, infront of people I would absolutly do what I was asked and not argue with my boss like that. It's career limiting. Fair enough, but we can sit on here all day questioning the managers decisions and he'll never see it, Pogba might of been saying exactly the sort of thing we do every day but only to his face. Which might actually make a difference...eventually. And like I said, in private is already too late for that specific game. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 13:26:21 GMT
No, infront of people I would absolutly do what I was asked and not argue with my boss like that. It's career limiting. Fair enough, but we can sit on here all day questioning the managers decisions and he'll never see it, Pogba might of been saying exactly the sort of thing we do every day but only to his face. Which might actually make a difference...eventually. And like I said, in private is already too late for that specific game. Don't get me wrong, Pogba probably was saying what we all say however there is a time and a place. Infront of thousands of fans at the ground and at home isn't the place. Its about showing respect. But I get what you're saying. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 13:41:07 GMT
Is it really that uncommon and disrespectful for an employee to question a manager's decision there and then? I wouldn't say so, not automatically anyway.
None of us fully know the content of their conversation. If it was just a matter of Pogba saying "Boss, It isn't working. We're getting outplayed all over the park. We need 3 in midfield." I don't see the issue. I'd also say that contrary to popular belief, it also shows how much he cares about what's happening on the pitch.
On the other hand, if Pogba was flat out refusing to do the job he was asked then he is out of order but as I said at the time, Mourinho has to shoulder a portion of the blame for his clearly fucked up tactics.
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Post by mightyez on Feb 15, 2018 13:41:21 GMT
really cant understand why Jose wont change the formation.
I genuinely think he gets the best out his best midfielder and it allows the front 3 to really try and be flexible like ron, rooney and tevez.
The blueprint is there, the ability is there the manager just needs to give it 6/7 games and surely the players will deliver.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 14:56:00 GMT
Is it really that uncommon and disrespectful for an employee to question a manager's decision there and then? I wouldn't say so, not automatically anyway. None of us fully know the content of their conversation. If it was just a matter of Pogba saying "Boss, It isn't working. We're getting outplayed all over the park. We need 3 in midfield." I don't see the issue. I'd also say that contrary to popular belief, it also shows how much he cares about what's happening on the pitch. On the other hand, if Pogba was flat out refusing to do the job he was asked then he is out of order but as I said at the time, Mourinho has to shoulder a portion of the blame for his clearly fucked up tactics. no, just not in public and not in that fashion. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Feb 15, 2018 15:12:00 GMT
Are you secretly that guy who was obsessed with Roy Keane I've mentioned him once. Was meant in a jokey tone! |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Feb 15, 2018 15:19:58 GMT
Pogba was wrong, got punished and has hopefully learned his lesson about being more discreet. Whether Jose interprets the lesson as 'never question me' rather than 'never question me in public' we don't know - hopefully the latter, but with his history it could possibly be the former.
The main problem is Pogba likely made the correct point in the incorrect manner. Jose is as wrong about the formation as Pogba was for bringing it up there and then, but there is no mechanism to punish him accordingly - Pogba was dropped before coming back but you can't do that with a manager, and even if you could we couldn't trust those above Jose to wield that power whatsoever.
(Worth saying this once again relies on the assumption we are all making about what specifically was said)
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Post by alt on Feb 15, 2018 15:47:21 GMT
really cant understand why Jose wont change the formation. I genuinely think he gets the best out his best midfielder and it allows the front 3 to really try and be flexible like ron, rooney and tevez. The blueprint is there, the ability is there the manager just needs to give it 6/7 games and surely the players will deliver. It's truly baffling. We play it against Everton and it looked and worked well - we haven't seen it again since and have played dogshit. I cannot for the life of me understand why Jose seems so against when with the players at his disposal, it seems the most naturally suited to get the best out of them. |
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Post by Karma on Feb 15, 2018 16:06:29 GMT
Was meant in a jokey tone!   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 16:25:27 GMT
really cant understand why Jose wont change the formation. I genuinely think he gets the best out his best midfielder and it allows the front 3 to really try and be flexible like ron, rooney and tevez. The blueprint is there, the ability is there the manager just needs to give it 6/7 games and surely the players will deliver. It's truly baffling. We play it against Everton and it looked and worked well - we haven't seen it again since and have played dogshit. I cannot for the life of me understand why Jose seems so against when with the players at his disposal, it seems the most naturally suited to get the best out of them. It may be potentially down to arrogance. No one really likes being told they are wrong. |
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