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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 5:24:45 GMT
We have spent more than 600 million in four seasons, roughly half of which by the current manager. If that is not enough to get the team playing positive football then we might be better off if the manager orchestrates his exit better than he orchestrates his team. Well we've also spent over a billion in debt repayments so i'm not going to cry over that. The problem is is a large part of that was spent on Lukaku and Pogba. Two high profile signings who cost a bomb. However it was obvious to anyone Rooney was finished. Van Gaal decided to sell all our strikers and left us threadbare with Rashford digging him out of a hole in his last season. We paid a premium as a result. We hadn't bought a decent midfielder for bleeding years and were relying on academy players who weren't good enough and players who should have long since retired. Had Fergie not been so stubborn with an ageing team Pogba may have got his chance and we needn't have paid a ridiculous fee in the first place. 600 million. Already having DDG that means 60 million to sort each outfield position and we still play Valencia, Jones, Smalling and Young across the back. Money has been made available. |
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Post by safariRed on Jul 30, 2018 5:38:26 GMT
De Gea
TFM Smalling Bailly Shaw
Herrera McTominay Perreira
Mata Sanchez Martial
With all the players who are likely to still be missing, this is the best lineup I can think of for our opening game. Which despite being less than ideal, should still be capable of beating Leicester.
Whether we will or not is a different matter.
That team should beat Leicester tbh. Mourinho has us convinced that the current team is not good enough when it actually is. Excluding potential transfers this is the best squad we have had post Fergie hands down and sadly I don't think we will see the best of these players with Mourinho in charge. |
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Post by Stew on Jul 30, 2018 6:49:03 GMT
I'm trying not to admit it to myself, but the whole thing smacks of a shift in power. Nothing lasts forever, and just like Liverpool dominated for most of the 80's, we've been lucky to have had damn near a 20 year spell of domination. That's phenominal when you think about it, but now the club seems to be regressing, and in such a state after Moyes, and LVG that I was more than happy for Jose to come in, but he has always been a manager that has to have a powerful dominant team to work with. If you aren't going to give him the players he needs to do his job, why hire him? Everyone knows how he operates. For a club the stature of Utd, we are looking kinda embarrassing just now because we have allowed everyone to catch up to and in some cases surpass us. The Liverpool game was embarrassing to say the least, weakened team or not, they were weak as well, but were so frikking good to watch it reminded me of us back in the day.
Like I said, Unless Jose and the boys pulls off a miracle next season, and wins the big trophies, I'd say we are in fear of the power shifting to the Blue half of the city, and the bin dippers up the road. Or we could also just act like the powerhouse that we're supposed to be, and give Jose the signings he needs, so he can continue to do the job of getting us back to where we belong which is why he was appointed in the first place!!! Sorry, what? |
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Post by On a break on Jul 30, 2018 7:18:07 GMT
We were never going to beat the scouse with the players available it was always going to be damage limitation, the worry was the lack of grit and aggression.
That wanker of a ref was letting some meaty challenges go un cautioned from Milner and the two CB`s but we were being far too nice in my opinion.
Apart from that I think Jose`s time now is nearing its last phase, I hope we have a fantastic season but it looks like he's already making excuses why it won't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 7:56:16 GMT
I'm trying not to admit it to myself, but the whole thing smacks of a shift in power. Nothing lasts forever, and just like Liverpool dominated for most of the 80's, we've been lucky to have had damn near a 20 year spell of domination. That's phenominal when you think about it, but now the club seems to be regressing, and in such a state after Moyes, and LVG that I was more than happy for Jose to come in, but he has always been a manager that has to have a powerful dominant team to work with. If you aren't going to give him the players he needs to do his job, why hire him? Everyone knows how he operates. For a club the stature of Utd, we are looking kinda embarrassing just now because we have allowed everyone to catch up to and in some cases surpass us. The Liverpool game was embarrassing to say the least, weakened team or not, they were weak as well, but were so frikking good to watch it reminded me of us back in the day.
Like I said, Unless Jose and the boys pulls off a miracle next season, and wins the big trophies, I'd say we are in fear of the power shifting to the Blue half of the city, and the bin dippers up the road. Or we could also just act like the powerhouse that we're supposed to be, and give Jose the signings he needs, so he can continue to do the job of getting us back to where we belong which is why he was appointed in the first place!!! Sorry, what? Reads like a wind up |
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Post by Stew on Jul 30, 2018 8:11:20 GMT
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Post by Bestie on Jul 30, 2018 10:07:32 GMT
We have spent more than 600 million in four seasons, roughly half of which by the current manager. If that is not enough to get the team playing positive football then we might be better off if the manager orchestrates his exit better than he orchestrates his team. Well we've also spent over a billion in debt repayments so i'm not going to cry over that. The problem is is a large part of that was spent on Lukaku and Pogba. Two high profile signings who cost a bomb. However it was obvious to anyone Rooney was finished. Van Gaal decided to sell all our strikers and left us threadbare with Rashford digging him out of a hole in his last season. We paid a premium as a result. We hadn't bought a decent midfielder for bleeding years and were relying on academy players who weren't good enough and players who should have long since retired. Had Fergie not been so stubborn with an ageing team Pogba may have got his chance and we needn't have paid a ridiculous fee in the first place. The debt repayments have nothing to do with it. We have still spent the money on transfers. And the football is still shite. The worrying thing is not that it's pre season it's the fact we looked fucking shite made hardly any chances and it's been the same for the last 2 years. This would be valid if the team sheet had read: DDG Tony V (despite his manager’s nonsense) New CB Bailly (with his head out of his arse) Young/Shaw Matic Fred Pogba Lingard Rom Sanchez So just the 9 players to come back then. People are losing their shit over losing because its Liverpool? All you had to do was watch our reserves last year to see how that was going to play out. Our reserves are shite at present. Because thats what the 2nd half was, in effect. Our reserves. My issue is with Mourinho's gurning about playing the young players. What does that do for their confidence? He's a miserable prick and I wouldn't mind seeing shot of him before the 10th August. |
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Post by Stew on Jul 30, 2018 10:13:20 GMT
Well we've also spent over a billion in debt repayments so i'm not going to cry over that. The problem is is a large part of that was spent on Lukaku and Pogba. Two high profile signings who cost a bomb. However it was obvious to anyone Rooney was finished. Van Gaal decided to sell all our strikers and left us threadbare with Rashford digging him out of a hole in his last season. We paid a premium as a result. We hadn't bought a decent midfielder for bleeding years and were relying on academy players who weren't good enough and players who should have long since retired. Had Fergie not been so stubborn with an ageing team Pogba may have got his chance and we needn't have paid a ridiculous fee in the first place. The debt repayments have nothing to do with it. We have still spent the money on transfers. And the football is still shite. This would be valid if the team sheet had read: DDG Tony V (despite his manager’s nonsense) New CB Bailly (with his head out of his arse) Young/Shaw Matic Fred Pogba Lingard Rom Sanchez So just the 9 players to come back then. People are losing their shit over losing because its Liverpool? All you had to do was watch our reserves last year to see how that was going to play out. Our reserves are shite at present. Because thats what the 2nd half was, in effect. Our reserves. My issue is with Mourinho's gurning about playing the young players. What does that do for their confidence? He's a miserable prick and I wouldn't mind seeing shot of him before the 10th August. Well that’s perfectly valid. It was awful, as was calling out Valencia. |
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Post by Stew on Jul 30, 2018 10:18:03 GMT
Just to be clear- the result and performance the other night didn’t bother me given the team we had out. However, pretty much all the other stuff, the bemoaning of the kids, bleating on about transfers, calling out Valencia etc, I’m as annoyed as anyone on here.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jul 30, 2018 10:46:08 GMT
The annoying thing is that his dumb words are opening himself up to invalid attacks as well as valid ones. Take the F365 article (someone posted it here or in the Jose thread) comparing his words to that of Pep and Klopp about youth on this pre-season - they were positive about the opportunities given to kids, Jose was moaning.
Now in the past two years Jose arguably has a better youth record than either of them. Pep left a spot empty on the bench rather than put a kid there. Yet because Jose chats such shit he's the one who is getting singled out for his youth policy, increasing the pressure and making the wheel spin even faster. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 10:51:53 GMT
The annoying thing is that his dumb words are opening himself up to invalid attacks as well as valid ones. Take the F365 article (someone posted it here or in the Jose thread) comparing his words to that of Pep and Klopp about youth on this pre-season - they were positive about the opportunities given to kids, Jose was moaning. Now in the past two years Jose arguably has a better youth record than either of them. Pep left a spot empty on the bench rather than put a kid there. Yet because Jose chats such shit he's the one who is getting singled out for his youth policy, increasing the pressure and making the wheel spin even faster. Why? At Chelsea, especially in his first spell his players loved the protection he gave them and the 'us against the world' attitude he created in the dressing room, Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc love the guy. It seems now it's gone the opposite way and it's 'him against the world' including his own players. Whatever he had, he's long since lost it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 11:11:16 GMT
Just to be clear- the result and performance the other night didn’t bother me given the team we had out. However, pretty much all the other stuff, the bemoaning of the kids, bleating on about transfers, calling out Valencia etc, I’m as annoyed as anyone on here. That's the issue, with the side we put out we weren't expecting much. Its the rest that's pissing people off. He's making himself look a right mug. Constantly moaning and making excuses to try and justify the shit he's serving up. Cant believe how far he's fallen. When he arrived he brought hope with him. That hope has turned to shit. Only a guess but perhaps the board haven't been so quick to sanction the transfers he's wanted is because they've lost trust in him to deliver I don't know, I mean look at the money he's spent. Considering that, we havent exactly improved all that much. He's brought in 10 players and still doesn't know his best XI or even the tactics to use with them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 11:16:36 GMT
The annoying thing is that his dumb words are opening himself up to invalid attacks as well as valid ones. Take the F365 article (someone posted it here or in the Jose thread) comparing his words to that of Pep and Klopp about youth on this pre-season - they were positive about the opportunities given to kids, Jose was moaning. Now in the past two years Jose arguably has a better youth record than either of them. Pep left a spot empty on the bench rather than put a kid there. Yet because Jose chats such shit he's the one who is getting singled out for his youth policy, increasing the pressure and making the wheel spin even faster. Why? I think Klopp probably has the best history in terms of developing young players but during the last few seasons I think they've all been just as bad. Think Jose has only played as much as he has because he's been forced to do it. If he could have his way they'd all be ready made stars.
But there's no doubting the way he speaks about them is much worse than the other guys. You could say actions speak louder than words but what's the point in playing young players if you've destroyed their confidence? Pep and Klopp usually speak highly of their young guys, so if they do get their chance they're more likely to have the belief and backing to perform.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jul 30, 2018 11:23:17 GMT
Anyone who has looked at our pre-season results over the last 4 years will realize how little this means going into the season.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jul 30, 2018 11:24:18 GMT
The annoying thing is that his dumb words are opening himself up to invalid attacks as well as valid ones. Take the F365 article (someone posted it here or in the Jose thread) comparing his words to that of Pep and Klopp about youth on this pre-season - they were positive about the opportunities given to kids, Jose was moaning. Now in the past two years Jose arguably has a better youth record than either of them. Pep left a spot empty on the bench rather than put a kid there. Yet because Jose chats such shit he's the one who is getting singled out for his youth policy, increasing the pressure and making the wheel spin even faster. Why? I think Klopp probably has the best history in terms of developing young players but during the last few seasons I think they've all been just as bad. Think Jose has only played as much as he has because he's been forced to do it. If he could have his way they'd all be ready made stars.
But there's no doubting the way he speaks about them is much worse than the other guys. You could say actions speak louder than words but what's the point in playing young players if you've destroyed their confidence? Pep and Klopp usually speak highly of their young guys, so if they do get their chance they're more likely to have the belief and backing to perform.
Long term yeah. But over the past two seasons (i.e. the two seasons where they've all been in their respective roles), Jose's record is at the very least a match for theirs, and probably better. Pep is going to waste Foden and all the other promising kids he has there. Klopp's never going to give Solanke a fair run. But Jose increases the pressure on himself for no reason when he could just say a few nice words, or nothing at all, or even defend his youth record - instead, he does none of that. |
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