vs Valencia (A) (CL) 12/12/2018 20:00 GMT

[aussiegraham]

I tentatively stuck my head above the parapet to see what was going on, and immediately wished I hadn't. I'm not going to go near any electronic devices on Monday morning. If Jose gets sacked, someone please send a messenger pigeon!

[shrike59]

Another disgraceful display. Defense a shambles. Time to gut this team rather than start resigning Young,Valencia etc. I would rather see a young team that cares.Sell Pogba to the French.

[redcase]

Phil Jones should not wear a United shirt ever again. I say this not because of last night, but because his entire tenure as a Manchester United player has been one big joke. Last night was the punch line. This has to be the end for him.

I can't believe I'm saying this , but Pogba should not be starting the upcoming game. That miss yesterday was abysmal.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2018 4:41:51 GMT redcase said:

Phil Jones should not wear a United shirt ever again. I say this not because of last night, but because his entire tenure as a Manchester United player has been one big joke. Last night was the punch line. This has to be the end for him.

I can't believe I'm saying this , but Pogba should not be starting the upcoming game. That miss yesterday was abysmal.

Smalling too and Rojo too. I don't trust Bailly and Lindelof that much but at least they haven't been stinking the place up for years.

[mightyez]

Dec 12, 2018 23:04:09 GMT Karma said:

Dec 12, 2018 22:49:53 GMT mightyez said:

We lost because there is no cohesion or consistency in this team.
Phil Jones is not the sole reason we lost.
Can not understand how you make it all about Ed when Jose has lost the damn plot.
I want whatever Jose is paying you.
Ed is a footballing loser and should be nowhere near what we do on the pitch but to actually blame him for all of it is absolutely ridiculous

Because despite all the calls for a new manager, he isn't going to get anything out of certain players in this team.

Do you think Pep would have kept Jones, Valencia and Rojo had he decided to come here instead of City? 

Everything comes down to Ed/The board

1.Who is obsessed with commercial signings at the expense of the team?
2. Who keeps renewing the players contracts who are shit/Finished?
3. Who said the defenders aren't better than what we have?
4. Who briefed against the manager to start all this shit in the first place?
5. Who refuses to sack failing managers until the end of the season so they can save money/not have to make a decision?

Jose isn't going to walk and why should he? He knows how they work, or don't !

Regardless of whether Pep would have kept them pep would get far more out of this team, mentioning him doesn’t help your argument.
Klopp would, Poch would, heck Sarri probably would.
Jose is a baby, crying for a defender when he has a bunch of attackers that he can’t coach.
Listen the argument becomes stronger if we are playing sexy football and smashing in goals but the defence keeps conceding, reality is the football is dead pants.

What has all 5 points got to do with the lack of passing ability? The lack of cohesion as a team, the poor finishing, lack of creativity? It has nothing to do with it.
This dream defender that we missed out on I guess in yours and Jose’s mind would have scored 30 goals a season? Created 50 chances? Played defence splitting passes? No no and no.
Ed has his documented issues but get real because Ed doesn’t coach the team, train the players or select the team, Jose does and the performances on the pitch lay at the managers feet.
Even Newcastle with Ashley’s and penny pinching come game time everyone knows that it’s all on Rafa as he does that side of things, granted I’ll equipped due to Ashley.

I get your frustration with Ed, we all have it but the difference is we call it as it is and that is the manager is doing a pathetic job with what he has at his disposal.

We will not be the first or last big club to buy a player for commercial reasons, the player that was bought has all the attributes to be world class so we aren’t talking of Ed buying dong mk2.

[Karma]

Dec 13, 2018 6:38:38 GMT mightyez said:

Dec 12, 2018 23:04:09 GMT Karma said:

Because despite all the calls for a new manager, he isn't going to get anything out of certain players in this team.

Do you think Pep would have kept Jones, Valencia and Rojo had he decided to come here instead of City? 

Everything comes down to Ed/The board

1.Who is obsessed with commercial signings at the expense of the team?
2. Who keeps renewing the players contracts who are shit/Finished?
3. Who said the defenders aren't better than what we have?
4. Who briefed against the manager to start all this shit in the first place?
5. Who refuses to sack failing managers until the end of the season so they can save money/not have to make a decision?

Jose isn't going to walk and why should he? He knows how they work, or don't !

Regardless of whether Pep would have kept them pep would get far more out of this team, mentioning him doesn’t help your argument.
Klopp would, Poch would, heck Sarri probably would.
Jose is a baby, crying for a defender when he has a bunch of attackers that he can’t coach.
Listen the argument becomes stronger if we are playing sexy football and smashing in goals but the defence keeps conceding, reality is the football is dead pants.

What has all 5 points got to do with the lack of passing ability? The lack of cohesion as a team, the poor finishing, lack of creativity? It has nothing to do with it.
This dream defender that we missed out on I guess in yours and Jose’s mind would have scored 30 goals a season? Created 50 chances? Played defence splitting passes? No no and no.
Ed has his documented issues but get real because Ed doesn’t coach the team, train the players or select the team, Jose does and the performances on the pitch lay at the managers feet.
Even Newcastle with Ashley’s and penny pinching come game time everyone knows that it’s all on Rafa as he does that side of things, granted I’ll equipped due to Ashley.

I get your frustration with Ed, we all have it but the difference is we call it as it is and that is the manager is doing a pathetic job with what he has at his disposal.

We will not be the first or last big club to buy a player for commercial reasons, the player that was bought has all the attributes to be world class so we aren’t talking of Ed buying dong mk2.

Pep would have got rid of Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian and Young at the very least.

You and I both know he would!

Regardless of whether the team could be coached better we have a CEO who doesn't want to move on shit/past it players because he's scared to death of missing out on potential money for them.



If the manager is doing such a poor job why hasn't he been sacked?

1. The owners haven't a fucking clue who to replace him with.
2. Compensation

Feel free to list which ever order you want.

[Karma]

Dec 13, 2018 5:27:35 GMT @ausred88 said:

Dec 13, 2018 4:41:51 GMT redcase said:

Phil Jones should not wear a United shirt ever again. I say this not because of last night, but because his entire tenure as a Manchester United player has been one big joke. Last night was the punch line. This has to be the end for him.

I can't believe I'm saying this , but Pogba should not be starting the upcoming game. That miss yesterday was abysmal.

Smalling too and Rojo too. I don't trust Bailly and Lindelof that much but at least they haven't been stinking the place up for years.

How on earth can you put Smalling in the same category as those 2?

God knows what Fergie ever saw in Jones.

He had one half decent season and that was when he was deployed playing in midfield.

He is utter gash. I expect he'll get a testimonial though Ed being the useless twat he is.

[mightyez]

Dec 13, 2018 7:41:44 GMT Karma said:

Dec 13, 2018 6:38:38 GMT mightyez said:

Regardless of whether Pep would have kept them pep would get far more out of this team, mentioning him doesn’t help your argument.
Klopp would, Poch would, heck Sarri probably would.
Jose is a baby, crying for a defender when he has a bunch of attackers that he can’t coach.
Listen the argument becomes stronger if we are playing sexy football and smashing in goals but the defence keeps conceding, reality is the football is dead pants.

What has all 5 points got to do with the lack of passing ability? The lack of cohesion as a team, the poor finishing, lack of creativity? It has nothing to do with it.
This dream defender that we missed out on I guess in yours and Jose’s mind would have scored 30 goals a season? Created 50 chances? Played defence splitting passes? No no and no.
Ed has his documented issues but get real because Ed doesn’t coach the team, train the players or select the team, Jose does and the performances on the pitch lay at the managers feet.
Even Newcastle with Ashley’s and penny pinching come game time everyone knows that it’s all on Rafa as he does that side of things, granted I’ll equipped due to Ashley.

I get your frustration with Ed, we all have it but the difference is we call it as it is and that is the manager is doing a pathetic job with what he has at his disposal.

We will not be the first or last big club to buy a player for commercial reasons, the player that was bought has all the attributes to be world class so we aren’t talking of Ed buying dong mk2.

Pep would have got rid of Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian and Young at the very least.

You and I both know he would!

Regardless of whether the team could be coached better we have a CEO who doesn't want to move on shit/past it players because he's scared to death of missing out on potential money for them.



If the manager is doing such a poor job why hasn't he been sacked?

1. The owners haven't a fucking clue who to replace him with.
2. Compensation

Feel free to list which ever order you want.

you clearly don't get it.

[Karma]

Dec 13, 2018 7:51:40 GMT mightyez said:

Dec 13, 2018 7:41:44 GMT Karma said:

Pep would have got rid of Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian and Young at the very least.

You and I both know he would!

Regardless of whether the team could be coached better we have a CEO who doesn't want to move on shit/past it players because he's scared to death of missing out on potential money for them.



If the manager is doing such a poor job why hasn't he been sacked?

1. The owners haven't a fucking clue who to replace him with.
2. Compensation

Feel free to list which ever order you want.

you clearly don't get it.

What don't I get?

What that the coaching could be better?

Would that resolve some issues?

That Valencia, Rojo and Jones are past it/not good enough? 3 of those started last night.

I'm not in denial about the coaching but it seems some fans are about the coaches ability to polish a turd.

Yeah bring in Klopp, Poch, whoever. I'm sure they could coach Jones out of kicking the ball into his own net, Valencia to be good again and Rojo to stop his red card tackles.

[Deleted]

Yeah I'm completely and utterly done with Jones. I've had a love/hate relationship with him for years because sometimes he really does look like an outstanding central defender but he is just thick as fuck. Like properly thick.

It's something that runs through all of our central defenders to be honest. Rojo, Bailly and even Smalling play like right thick twats as well at times.

Lindelof is the shining star amongst this current bunch. We need to get him a quality partner.

[mightyez]

Dec 13, 2018 8:11:51 GMT Karma said:

Dec 13, 2018 7:51:40 GMT mightyez said:

you clearly don't get it.

What don't I get?

What that the coaching could be better?

Would that resolve some issues?

That Valencia, Rojo and Jones are past it/not good enough? 3 of those started last night.

I'm not in denial about the coaching but it seems some fans are about the coaches ability to polish a turd.

Yeah bring in Klopp, Poch, whoever. I'm sure they could coach Jones out of kicking the ball into his own net, Valencia to be good again and Rojo to stop his red card tackles.

Stop looking at one game.
Let’s go through the squad.
Best goalkeeper in the world and a good back up in Romero.
Dalot, Shaw are 2 fine fullbacks that any decent coach should be turning to world class offcourse the players play their role in their developement.
Lindelof and bailly are good Center backs and can become excellent.
Rojo, darmian, Valencia. Young, Smalling and Jones well to be polite just aren’t good enough for what we need.
Matic, Fred, Ander, pogba all players that are better than what we see.
Pereira, martial, mata, Lingard, rashford, lukaku aren’t turkeys a better coach gets them in the back pages for consistent 8/10 performances.
Sanchez can do one for all I care.

So tell me why I should keep banging on about Ed and the glazers when Jose has enough tools and experience to get better out of those names?

Do I want the glazers gone? Yes
Ed gone? Hell yeah
Jose? Yes and before the other goons because he is serving up trash. He more than anyone is damaging the players.

Reality is if we had a pep serving up sexy football the majority who be saying Ed who?

[Rustin Cohle]

www.football365.com/news/this-lamentable-man-utd-xi-fell-over-at-their-audition

This lamentable Man Utd XI fell over at their audition…

No shots on target. No movement. No width. No incision. No precision. No urgency. No suggestion of any kind of plan. In a season of largely terrible first halves from Manchester United this season, this had to be the very worst. It was ponderous and it was pedestrian; Michael Owen’s description of their performance as “very average” was very generous.

“It is Manchester United, professional players, and we want to do well,” Jose Mourinho had said on Tuesday, so we really should have known: this truly was Mourinho’s Manchester United, with as little dynamism as width. There was no change of pace to worry Valencia, no switch of play to find non-existent wide men and no defensive prowess to offer the slimmest of silver linings on a miserable night.

What’s worse? The notion that United players simply ignored Mourinho’s instructions, or the alternative scenario that he had actually instructed those players to occupy the middle ground, with Andreas Pereira and Juan Mata coming inside to join a wild party of five in the central midfield? There was no forward motion from the lamentable Marcos Rojo on the left, while Antonio Valencia was lucky to make it past the first ten minutes after a reckless tackle. So very narrow and so very easy to defend against.

As Valencia moved from one box to another in three passes, United took 13 passes to move forward less than two yards, like a live re-enactment of the Battle of the Somme but with mercifully fewer casualties. At half-time it was over to Mourinho to rouse this United side, to give them purpose and presumably a plan. Two minutes into that new plan – which now featured Ashley Young – Phil Jones produced his own piece of performance art, called ‘Phil Jones’, putting through his own net seven years after United’s last Champions League own goal, scored by Phil Jones.

This was truly dire. And remained largely dire even after the introductions of Marcus Rashford and then Jesse Lingard, though the former did at least produce United’s first shot on target after 72 minutes. That it was a weakly-struck effort from outside the area which bobbled through to the keeper as the England man fell down seemed apt.

It took until the 87th minute for Manchester United players to realise that they could carry the ball into the box, could exchange quick passes, could cross the ball from somewhere other than the corner flag. And they scored, the three substitutes combining to embarrass the pathetic starting XI. Then, having finally worked out the clearest route to goal, they almost claimed an undeserved equaliser as Valencia suddenly looked as ordinary as their league form suggests. It would have been a travesty.

If this was indeed an audition for Paul Pogba – as it was billed – ahead of Sunday’s visit to Liverpool then it is clear there will be no recall. There is zero chance of him or any of his fellow Valencia starters reprising their role at Anfield, unless injuries leave Mourinho with absolutely no option. Nobody was even whispering – never mind screaming – ‘pick me’ in the Mestalla. The only case made was for a slew of January exits. If only anybody wanted this shower.

[juanveron]

Dec 13, 2018 8:11:51 GMT Karma said:

Dec 13, 2018 7:51:40 GMT mightyez said:

you clearly don't get it.

What don't I get?

What that the coaching could be better?

Would that resolve some issues?

That Valencia, Rojo and Jones are past it/not good enough? 3 of those started last night.

I'm not in denial about the coaching but it seems some fans are about the coaches ability to polish a turd.

Yeah bring in Klopp, Poch, whoever. I'm sure they could coach Jones out of kicking the ball into his own net, Valencia to be good again and Rojo to stop his red card tackles.

I'm struggling to understand why the two of you are arguing, as you are both right. 

This team could do better with a different manager - our squad, while isn't perfect and especially lacks the right characters, isn't nearly as bad as some people are saying it is. It boggles the mind that we are defending so poorly this season because we're playing with the same defenders as last season. It is even more infuriating to think about that when you realize just how bad we are at going forward, hence - what the actual fuck are we doing all week in training?

But, here's the thing (this is for you Karma) - Jose is the least of our problems and when he is sacked/leaves two things will be disgustingly obvious:
1. He was sacked too late due to the board's incompetence and lack of actual need to see us doing well on the football pitch (this is what happens when the board's success isn't measured by trophies but on commercial deals and revenue).
2. The person who'll follow Jose will need to rebuild this team, AGAIN, for the 3rd time in 6 years. And guess what? Unless something changes, when that guy inevitably fails, we'll need to rebuild after him as well! 

My point is, sacking the manager and expecting that to solve our problems is just burying your head in the sand. The real problem at the club is that the people who are actually making decisions aren't truly motivated by success on the football pitch. Until that changes, we're not going to go back to the top. 

[Karma]

Dec 13, 2018 9:00:56 GMT mightyez said:

Dec 13, 2018 8:11:51 GMT Karma said:

What don't I get?

What that the coaching could be better?

Would that resolve some issues?

That Valencia, Rojo and Jones are past it/not good enough? 3 of those started last night.

I'm not in denial about the coaching but it seems some fans are about the coaches ability to polish a turd.

Yeah bring in Klopp, Poch, whoever. I'm sure they could coach Jones out of kicking the ball into his own net, Valencia to be good again and Rojo to stop his red card tackles.

Stop looking at one game.
Let’s go through the squad.
Best goalkeeper in the world and a good back up in Romero.
Dalot, Shaw are 2 fine fullbacks that any decent coach should be turning to world class offcourse the players play their role in their developement.
Lindelof and bailly are good Center backs and can become excellent.
Rojo, darmian, Valencia. Young, Smalling and Jones well to be polite just aren’t good enough for what we need.
Matic, Fred, Ander, pogba all players that are better than what we see.
Pereira, martial, mata, Lingard, rashford, lukaku aren’t turkeys a better coach gets them in the back pages for consistent 8/10 performances.
Sanchez can do one for all I care.

So tell me why I should keep banging on about Ed and the glazers when Jose has enough tools and experience to get better out of those names?

Do I want the glazers gone? Yes
Ed gone? Hell yeah
Jose? Yes and before the other goons because he is serving up trash. He more than anyone is damaging the players.

Reality is if we had a pep serving up sexy football the majority who be saying Ed who?

I don't know how many times I have to argue that the coaching should be better but who is

1 Allowing failing managers to see out the rest of the season ?

2 Renewing the contracts of past it/here for the money/shit players?

Do something about those 2 issues and we might see some improvement in what is happening on the pitch.

Ed was practically begging Van Gaal to stay in his second season. This two bob shower of shit haven't a fucking clue what to do next.

Any half competent board would have moved Jose on by now but they haven't. We know how bad things get because we have been down this road twice before.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2018 9:08:03 GMT juanveron said:

Dec 13, 2018 8:11:51 GMT Karma said:

What don't I get?

What that the coaching could be better?

Would that resolve some issues?

That Valencia, Rojo and Jones are past it/not good enough? 3 of those started last night.

I'm not in denial about the coaching but it seems some fans are about the coaches ability to polish a turd.

Yeah bring in Klopp, Poch, whoever. I'm sure they could coach Jones out of kicking the ball into his own net, Valencia to be good again and Rojo to stop his red card tackles.

I'm struggling to understand why the two of you are arguing, as you are both right. 

This team could do better with a different manager - our squad, while isn't perfect and especially lacks the right characters, isn't nearly as bad as some people are saying it is. It boggles the mind that we are defending so poorly this season because we're playing with the same defenders as last season. It is even more infuriating to think about that when you realize just how bad we are going forward, hence - what the actual fuck are we doing all week in training?

But, here's the thing (this is for you Karma) - Jose is the least of our problems and when he is sacked/leaves two things will be disgustingly obvious:
1. He was sacked too late due to the board's incompetence and lack of actual need to see us doing well on the football pitch (this is what happens when the board's success isn't measured by trophies but on commercial deals and revenue).
2. The person who'll follow Jose will need to rebuild this team, AGAIN, for the 3rd time in 6 years. And guess what? Unless something changes, when that guy inevitably fails, we'll need to rebuild after him as well! 

My point is, sacking the manager and expecting that to solve our problems is just burying your head in the sand. The real problem at the club is that the people who are actually making decisions aren't truly motivated by success on the football pitch. Until that changes, we're not going to go back to the top. 

I haven't seen anyone thinking we'll suddenly become a top club again because we've sacked the manager. This will be a huge rebuild, something that jose isn't capable of end of story.