vs Wolves (A) (PL) - Tuesday 02/04/19 K.O 19:45 GMT

[kstandhand]

Apr 3, 2019 10:01:08 GMT Karma said:

Apr 3, 2019 9:58:09 GMT kstandhand said:

To think we have been talking about top 4 for nearly 6 years now.

It won't be long & we will be talking about top 6,7 or 8.

That’s next season. Mark my words!

I agree with you,anything above 5th & Ole has to be highly praised.

We will be further behind City,Liverpool,Juve,Barca,PSG etc after the summer market in terms of squad quality & strength in depth.

Spurs will strengthen,so will Arsenal.

Chelsea will probably end up with a new owner & fairly significant investment.

Even Wolves will stick to their current structure/model & invest again.

Ole has already said 'we will do some business',whilst he can't come out & say too much 'some' would suggest that the investment will not be at a level that gets us anywhere near where it should & needs to be.

[Stew]

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

[Deleted]

Come on guys. Chill out.

[Karma]

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

I know I get grief for Jose but unless things change soon we will look back at that EL with love and affection!

We are in a right mess!

[Karma]

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

Probably because that search for a DOF is just window dressing?

The Sancho is too expensive /unattainable rumours are already here. Though how his replacement and to re sign Zaha will be cheap god knows!

We should try and get Tielemans while we can! Or Dacoure? Quite a few players from Watford and Wolves would improve us!

[kstandhand]

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

Couldn't agree more.

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2019 9:40:29 GMT Jayrannasaurus said:

Our front trio weren't at the races yesterday and Wolves, much like they've done to many sides this season, dominated midfield with Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker.

Wolves offered very little going forward in the second half, so our implosion was largely self-created.

If we (i.e. Lukaku) took our chances we'd have won the match comfortably.

Frustrating, but I genuinely don't think that's the end of the top 4 race.

Most positive for me was McTominay, played well and adds much needed energy to our midfield even though many have not given him much of a chance at United for the last year.

Their first shot on target in the second half was when they hit the bar in injury time. During that time Smalling tested DDG twice, scoring once and forcing a smart save for the other

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

Yep. I think what is often overlooked with that 09 season is we also failed to keep hold of Tevez. Watched the premier league years 08/09 a few days ago and in that game at Wigan towards the end of the season we at one point had Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and Giggs all on the pitch at the same time.

A far cry to what we see now.

[Rustin Cohle]

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

We (myself included) do sometimes forget just how far we are already down this path of mediocrity. It's six years since we won the title, and not once in that time have we been challenging for it past Christmas. Would anyone bet against that stretching to a decade or longer? 

As I said before, we've got the ambition of 2010s Arsenal combined with the incompetence of 1990s Liverpool. It's a toxic mix.

[Rustin Cohle]

Apr 3, 2019 10:42:33 GMT @redpilgrim said:

Apr 3, 2019 9:40:29 GMT Jayrannasaurus said:

Our front trio weren't at the races yesterday and Wolves, much like they've done to many sides this season, dominated midfield with Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker.

Wolves offered very little going forward in the second half, so our implosion was largely self-created.

If we (i.e. Lukaku) took our chances we'd have won the match comfortably.

Frustrating, but I genuinely don't think that's the end of the top 4 race.

Most positive for me was McTominay, played well and adds much needed energy to our midfield even though many have not given him much of a chance at United for the last year.

Their first shot on target in the second half was when they hit the bar in injury time. During that time Smalling tested DDG twice, scoring once and forcing a smart save for the other

Hitting the bar isn't a shot on target.

[kstandhand]

Apr 3, 2019 10:55:23 GMT Rustin Cohle said:

Apr 3, 2019 10:13:02 GMT Stew said:

I’ve been reading Jimmy Burns book about Messi and Ronaldo, which is really good. However it’s also infuriating because Utd fade into the background in 2009. And that’s exactly the same time we faded into the background in terms of European football. Ronaldo was never close to being replaced and the team, though still competitive in Europe until 2011, didn’t have areal chance again. And since Fergie left we’ve been an irrelevance in terms of the premier league now for 6 years.

Think about those numbers. 10 years without a chance of winning in Europe, 6 in the league. Bar AC Milan, who have reasons financial for it, what other huge club is in similar trouble? We are truly in an absolute state as a football club. So much waste, so little coherence. Huge transfers paid with what, about 5 players now to show for it? Managers being told the CBs we have are as good as Toby A, managers whose football is the polar opposite of what Utd’s should be, managers picking fights they can’t win, we have become little short of a joke, despite Ole’s great work recently.

Unless there’s a miracle we’re going to get killed by Barca over two legs. We will also struggle to get top 4, which will make it 4 out of 6 seasons out of it under Ed. Again, think of that number- 4 out of 6. Incredible. We are at another crossroads, having taking yet another wrong turn. Already the stories about not needing another CB resurface. Anyone think that last night? Won’t be long till the Sancho is too expensive stories start. Where’s the DoF? 4 months since that was floated. That’s quite a search...

We (myself included) do sometimes forget just how far we are already down this path of mediocrity. It's six years since we won the title, and not once in that time have we been challenging for it past Christmas. Would anyone bet against that stretching to a decade or longer? 

As I said before, we've got the ambition of 2010s Arsenal combined with the incompetence of 1990s Liverpool. It's a toxic mix.

The Glazers are replicating their business model of the Tampa Bucks,it serves it's purpose,in so much as it provides the family with comfortable income.

[Rustin Cohle]

www.football365.com/news/f365-says-man-utd-regress-to-the-mean-after-solskjaer-bounce

F365 Says: Man Utd regress to the mean after Solskjaer bounce

After one defeat in 17, it is now three losses in their last four. The adrenaline shot administered by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has worn off and Manchester United are showing weaknesses that are all too familiar.

The United players cannot say they weren’t warned about the magnitude of their latest failed mission or the expectation placed upon them for the swift return to Molineux. Solskjaer was damning in the wake of the 2-1 FA Cup quarter-final defeat just over a fortnight ago and the then-caretaker boss demanded a reaction. The response: a stodgy, sporny win at home to Watford, and another humbling at Wolves that could do untold damage to their top four hopes.

After the first loss to Nuno’s men, it was reported that some of Solskjaer’s players had been left “shellshocked” by the manager’s “stroppy” reaction to their dismal cup exit and the evidence since that dressing-room dressing-down suggests too many of the individuals within United’s squad are still nursing hurt feelings. Upon being told bluntly for the first time by this manager to stand up and be counted, many of Solskjaer’s players were to be found still cowering in the corner.

These United stars are fortunate that Opta haven’t yet fathomed a method for measuring heart and character because for too many, the data would not make pretty reading. Jose Mourinho had his faults, one of them being that he could not find a way to help these ‘boys’ become men, but his assessment of the mentality within the squad was not far wrong.

Solskjaer prefers the carrot to Mourinho’s stick but even the smiling Norwegian will tire of dangling it in front of players without the will to reach for it. Perhaps he already has.

Solskjaer made six changes back at Wolves, with only Paul Pogba of the front six retaining their place from the win over Watford which left the United dressing with a funereal feel. The manager’s wish was simple: “Start the game well and play with more tempo and urgency.”

United managed that, with Jesse Lingard taking the game straight to Wolves – literally – with the attacker receiving the kick-off before dribbling through the hosts and hitting a shot which forced Rui Patricio into a save after eight seconds. The Red Devils stayed on the front foot and Scott McTominay’s first goal for United gave them a deserved lead. Had Romelu Lukaku or Lingard scored simple headers either side of that opener, Wolves could not have complained.

But, as we’ve become accustomed to, United quickly wilted. Fred wasted his good early work in the middle of midfield with a loose touch after receiving a pass from David De Gea and Diego Jota made the Brazilian pay for his sloppiness. The sucker-punch of losing the lead combined with Wolves shaking off their confusion over Solskjaer’s change to a 3-5-2 formation saw the Red Devils relinquish the initiative.

There rarely seemed much hope of them wrestling it back, even less so when Solskjaer’s skipper Ashley Young gave Mike Dean an excuse to reach for his 100th red card after a couple of cautions within five minutes of each other before the hour mark. United treaded water for the final half hour, but they were eventually sunk in fittingly-shambolic fashion when Chris Smalling stabbed the ball into his own net after De Gea, for the second time in the half, appeared reluctant to put his body on the line for the cause.

Again, though, Solskjaer’s rearguard is the least of his problems. The manager’s priority for the summer is reportedly the recruitment of an attacker and Lingard offered nothing but graft to persuade Solskjaer that he doesn’t really need to blow over £100million on Jadon Sancho to add the requisite quality to his forward line. Lukaku was similarly unsuccessful in appealing his demotion from the first XI.

Pogba was the only player among the front six retained from Saturday – but he need not have been. The France star was as wretched against Watford as Nemanja Matic and Ander Herrera and he fared no better tonight. Here was another opportunity to demonstrate that he can be the leader and the driving force he sees himself as, but once again, all Pogba provided was frustration amid a flurry of one-touch-too-many contributions on the periphery.

What have United got to lose by selling Pogba? If the midfielder’s feelings for Real Madrid and Zinedine Zidane really are reciprocated and Florentino Perez is willing to put a satisfactory offer to Ed Woodward, United should resist the temptation to fight it. Pogba wants to go, if not now, then certainly in the not-too-distant future. The likelihood of him signing a new deal is as remote as the prospect of the 26-year-old offering some consistent evidence on the pitch of deserving the huge money he would inevitably demand.

Shifting Pogba offers Solskjaer the opportunity to begin to address the soft underbelly within a group of players too content to live on reputation and momentum. The United squad is not one which needs tweaking; it requires a midfielder and an attacker before a defender. In other words, a new spine and some backbone too.

[.]

Apr 3, 2019 10:17:08 GMT @ausred88 said:

Come on guys. Chill out.

I'm in a rotten mood today, but I'm totally chilled 100%.

But if I'm seeing a couple of extremely underwhelming performances in the last couple of league games, coupled with basically a hugely lackadaisical, incompetent approach from the hierarchy within the club...

... well then, I'm going to call both out.

[Jayrannasaurus]

Apr 3, 2019 10:56:28 GMT Rustin Cohle said:

Apr 3, 2019 10:42:33 GMT @redpilgrim said:

Their first shot on target in the second half was when they hit the bar in injury time. During that time Smalling tested DDG twice, scoring once and forcing a smart save for the other

Hitting the bar isn't a shot on target.

Sure, but this bit was funny.

[Karma]

Apr 3, 2019 11:13:14 GMT Rustin Cohle said:

www.football365.com/news/f365-says-man-utd-regress-to-the-mean-after-solskjaer-bounce

F365 Says: Man Utd regress to the mean after Solskjaer bounce

After one defeat in 17, it is now three losses in their last four. The adrenaline shot administered by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has worn off and Manchester United are showing weaknesses that are all too familiar.

The United players cannot say they weren’t warned about the magnitude of their latest failed mission or the expectation placed upon them for the swift return to Molineux. Solskjaer was damning in the wake of the 2-1 FA Cup quarter-final defeat just over a fortnight ago and the then-caretaker boss demanded a reaction. The response: a stodgy, sporny win at home to Watford, and another humbling at Wolves that could do untold damage to their top four hopes.

After the first loss to Nuno’s men, it was reported that some of Solskjaer’s players had been left “shellshocked” by the manager’s “stroppy” reaction to their dismal cup exit and the evidence since that dressing-room dressing-down suggests too many of the individuals within United’s squad are still nursing hurt feelings. Upon being told bluntly for the first time by this manager to stand up and be counted, many of Solskjaer’s players were to be found still cowering in the corner.

These United stars are fortunate that Opta haven’t yet fathomed a method for measuring heart and character because for too many, the data would not make pretty reading. Jose Mourinho had his faults, one of them being that he could not find a way to help these ‘boys’ become men, but his assessment of the mentality within the squad was not far wrong.

Solskjaer prefers the carrot to Mourinho’s stick but even the smiling Norwegian will tire of dangling it in front of players without the will to reach for it. Perhaps he already has.

Solskjaer made six changes back at Wolves, with only Paul Pogba of the front six retaining their place from the win over Watford which left the United dressing with a funereal feel. The manager’s wish was simple: “Start the game well and play with more tempo and urgency.”

United managed that, with Jesse Lingard taking the game straight to Wolves – literally – with the attacker receiving the kick-off before dribbling through the hosts and hitting a shot which forced Rui Patricio into a save after eight seconds. The Red Devils stayed on the front foot and Scott McTominay’s first goal for United gave them a deserved lead. Had Romelu Lukaku or Lingard scored simple headers either side of that opener, Wolves could not have complained.

But, as we’ve become accustomed to, United quickly wilted. Fred wasted his good early work in the middle of midfield with a loose touch after receiving a pass from David De Gea and Diego Jota made the Brazilian pay for his sloppiness. The sucker-punch of losing the lead combined with Wolves shaking off their confusion over Solskjaer’s change to a 3-5-2 formation saw the Red Devils relinquish the initiative.

There rarely seemed much hope of them wrestling it back, even less so when Solskjaer’s skipper Ashley Young gave Mike Dean an excuse to reach for his 100th red card after a couple of cautions within five minutes of each other before the hour mark. United treaded water for the final half hour, but they were eventually sunk in fittingly-shambolic fashion when Chris Smalling stabbed the ball into his own net after De Gea, for the second time in the half, appeared reluctant to put his body on the line for the cause.

Again, though, Solskjaer’s rearguard is the least of his problems. The manager’s priority for the summer is reportedly the recruitment of an attacker and Lingard offered nothing but graft to persuade Solskjaer that he doesn’t really need to blow over £100million on Jadon Sancho to add the requisite quality to his forward line. Lukaku was similarly unsuccessful in appealing his demotion from the first XI.

Pogba was the only player among the front six retained from Saturday – but he need not have been. The France star was as wretched against Watford as Nemanja Matic and Ander Herrera and he fared no better tonight. Here was another opportunity to demonstrate that he can be the leader and the driving force he sees himself as, but once again, all Pogba provided was frustration amid a flurry of one-touch-too-many contributions on the periphery.

What have United got to lose by selling Pogba? If the midfielder’s feelings for Real Madrid and Zinedine Zidane really are reciprocated and Florentino Perez is willing to put a satisfactory offer to Ed Woodward, United should resist the temptation to fight it. Pogba wants to go, if not now, then certainly in the not-too-distant future. The likelihood of him signing a new deal is as remote as the prospect of the 26-year-old offering some consistent evidence on the pitch of deserving the huge money he would inevitably demand.

Shifting Pogba offers Solskjaer the opportunity to begin to address the soft underbelly within a group of players too content to live on reputation and momentum. The United squad is not one which needs tweaking; it requires a midfielder and an attacker before a defender. In other words, a new spine and some backbone too.

So as well as having a squad swimming with dross, we can add powder puff mentality to the equation!

We need a firing squad for both board and players!