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Post by Bestie on Nov 8, 2020 11:38:38 GMT
I can’t want us to lose. Especially to Scouse. At least we're away so actually have some chance of a result. Yay. |
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Post by GeniusCantona on Nov 8, 2020 14:51:41 GMT
It’s a shame the international break has come after a good result. Martial is close, he’s getting in the right spaces and making the right runs but is just a bit off at the moment. I think in the next run of games, we’ll see Martial scoring quite a number of big goals for us, just a matter of time.
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Post by Paul on Nov 8, 2020 15:51:00 GMT
Martial getting all the pelters, yet Rashford missed two sitters, one was reprieved by a fortunate bounce off the post from a Bruno cross. Not criticising either player, but providing balance. And Martial missed a sitter too. Yesterday definitely. Overall I find with Martial its flipping a coin as to whether he performs whereas with Rashford even when he's not on his game he still tries to put the effort in. Last season they proved what a dangerous partnership they could be. Need to see more of that. |
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Post by Reduntildeath on Nov 8, 2020 18:31:33 GMT
Martial getting all the pelters, yet Rashford missed two sitters, one was reprieved by a fortunate bounce off the post from a Bruno cross. Not criticising either player, but providing balance. And Martial missed a sitter too. Yesterday definitely. Overall I find with Martial its flipping a coin as to whether he performs whereas with Rashford even when he's not on his game he still tries to put the effort in. Last season they proved what a dangerous partnership they could be. Need to see more of that. No idea how you manage Martial, he must be so bloody frustrating to handle, do you put your arm around him, or kick him repeatedly in the ‘nads? |
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Post by Paul on Nov 8, 2020 19:57:46 GMT
Yesterday definitely. Overall I find with Martial its flipping a coin as to whether he performs whereas with Rashford even when he's not on his game he still tries to put the effort in. Last season they proved what a dangerous partnership they could be. Need to see more of that. No idea how you manage Martial, he must be so bloody frustrating to handle, do you put your arm around him, or kick him repeatedly in the ‘nads? I'm not sure you can manage him. Hes played under 3 managers now and still something seems off. Last season was his best season for us and thought he might push on from there but hes gone backwards again to the previous season. Its frustrating because Rashford also has spells of inconsistency. We have a ridiculous attack yet cant go more than a few games without one or more of them having a shitter. It's odd. |
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Post by Ole's Red Whiteknight03 Army on Nov 8, 2020 20:26:48 GMT
Apologies if I was unclear. Asking about the players was a general observation. However, even Bruno and Rashford have been inconsistent this season, not to the point of doing anything stupid btw. There are plenty of posters who were spitting vitriol prematch and after we went behind who are conspicuously absent now. We both know RoM would’ve been a tire fire at the moment had we lost/drew. I too am reluctant to criticize Ole and didn’t post after midweek either bc I don’t want to hear all the Ole out bs and negativity. I, and I assume Paul as well, see the true cause of inconsistency being the players and a board who didn’t back the manager with more consistent ones. Answer me this - What is Ole's job? What are his responsibilities as manager? To get the best out of the players he has. Entertainment. Winning. He’s got room to improve in all three areas. However, he’d need to be more magician than manager to win the league with this lot. The things Ole is criticized for (tactics, man management, substitutions, lack of criticism re: the board) are things Jose is renowned for, and yet he failed. The common denominators are the board and this group of players. Most of them have had 3 very different managers and have produced the same thing for all three. Varying degrees of inconsistency. Change the manager and you’ll see an instant uptick in results. We might even win a game 5-0, but once the pressure is off the players, they’ll resort to type. There’s a large enough sample size there by now to go on. |
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Post by dazjoe on Nov 8, 2020 23:01:18 GMT
Thoughts on two topics that most are talking about.
As most have said, Ole is not the right man for the job. It's fine to admit this. It's been two years, he's a legend and seems a lovely bloke as well, and not one single United supporter would want him to fail, obviously. But he has not been able to get this side to anything like acceptable, consistent, levels. There have been some great highs, but woeful lows as well. This United is almost a carbon copy of the United team of the 80's, Big Ron's United.
Some stand out players (Bruno, Rashford, I'll say Greenwood too as this kids ceiling is impossibly high - Robson, McGrath, Whiteside), capable of taking on the very best and beating them (3-0 vs Barca, our 80's record against Liverpool was excellent, in the whole decade of the 1980's we played Liverpool 20 times in the league, won 7 of them and lost only twice 1-0 at OT in 1982 and and 1-0 at Anfield in 1988). But then we would go out and lose to some shite like Coventry, Luton or Oxford.
A better manager gets more out of this team, they just simply do. I don't think Ole is a bad manager, he's just an average one. A top manager coming in now could get this side back to the very top (maybe a bad thing if we want the Glazers to sell up but that's another argument for another day). Ole will keep us doing well in the cups and finishing 3rd to 6th. Big Ron mark 2.
2nd, on Martial. He's good. Sometimes very good, sometimes shite, generally good. If he could play to his best all season he would be a lethal weapon, in all seriousness one of the stand out forwards in the world. But it doesn't look like he has that in him, for whatever reason. Lets see how he reacts when Greenwood is made the regular starter at no 9.
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Post by Stretty on Nov 9, 2020 6:23:54 GMT
Thoughts on two topics that most are talking about. As most have said, Ole is not the right man for the job. It's fine to admit this. It's been two years, he's a legend and seems a lovely bloke as well, and not one single United supporter would want him to fail, obviously. But he has not been able to get this side to anything like acceptable, consistent, levels. There have been some great highs, but woeful lows as well. This United is almost a carbon copy of the United team of the 80's, Big Ron's United. Some stand out players (Bruno, Rashford, I'll say Greenwood too as this kids ceiling is impossibly high - Robson, McGrath, Whiteside), capable of taking on the very best and beating them (3-0 vs Barca, our 80's record against Liverpool was excellent, in the whole decade of the 1980's we played Liverpool 20 times in the league, won 7 of them and lost only twice 1-0 at OT in 1982 and and 1-0 at Anfield in 1988). But then we would go out and lose to some shite like Coventry, Luton or Oxford. A better manager gets more out of this team, they just simply do. I don't think Ole is a bad manager, he's just an average one. A top manager coming in now could get this side back to the very top (maybe a bad thing if we want the Glazers to sell up but that's another argument for another day). Ole will keep us doing well in the cups and finishing 3rd to 6th. Big Ron mark 2. 2nd, on Martial. He's good. Sometimes very good, sometimes shite, generally good. If he could play to his best all season he would be a lethal weapon, in all seriousness one of the stand out forwards in the world. But it doesn't look like he has that in him, for whatever reason. Lets see how he reacts when Greenwood is made the regular starter at no 9. Good post on the first point about being like big Ron’s Utd(I never knew we only lost twice in the 80s against the top side at the time and I was at Anfield in 88 with a steaming hangover to make things worse). if you look at the 2 best sides over the last few years it shows you need either world class owners(city) or a world class manager(scouse) we have neither. |
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Post by johnboy14 on Nov 9, 2020 7:59:43 GMT
Thoughts on two topics that most are talking about. As most have said, Ole is not the right man for the job. It's fine to admit this. It's been two years, he's a legend and seems a lovely bloke as well, and not one single United supporter would want him to fail, obviously. But he has not been able to get this side to anything like acceptable, consistent, levels. There have been some great highs, but woeful lows as well. This United is almost a carbon copy of the United team of the 80's, Big Ron's United. Some stand out players (Bruno, Rashford, I'll say Greenwood too as this kids ceiling is impossibly high - Robson, McGrath, Whiteside), capable of taking on the very best and beating them (3-0 vs Barca, our 80's record against Liverpool was excellent, in the whole decade of the 1980's we played Liverpool 20 times in the league, won 7 of them and lost only twice 1-0 at OT in 1982 and and 1-0 at Anfield in 1988). But then we would go out and lose to some shite like Coventry, Luton or Oxford. A better manager gets more out of this team, they just simply do. I don't think Ole is a bad manager, he's just an average one. A top manager coming in now could get this side back to the very top (maybe a bad thing if we want the Glazers to sell up but that's another argument for another day). Ole will keep us doing well in the cups and finishing 3rd to 6th. Big Ron mark 2. 2nd, on Martial. He's good. Sometimes very good, sometimes shite, generally good. If he could play to his best all season he would be a lethal weapon, in all seriousness one of the stand out forwards in the world. But it doesn't look like he has that in him, for whatever reason. Lets see how he reacts when Greenwood is made the regular starter at no 9. Good post on the first point about being like big Ron’s Utd(I never knew we only lost twice in the 80s against the top side at the time and I was at Anfield in 88 with a steaming hangover to make things worse). if you look at the 2 best sides over the last few years it shows you need either world class owners(city) or a world class manager(scouse) we have neither. You need both, a top coach can work wonders but they need to get hold of the players they need. This club is in desperate need of a football director who understands the transfer market and can organise our huge scouting network, to find quality players who dont cost 80m a pop. If you want an example of that club you just have to look at Bayern or Liverpool. This club is still living in the 90s. Managers like Ferguson dont exist anymore. |
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Post by keanosdog16 on Nov 9, 2020 11:48:26 GMT
Just thinking back to the game saturday.....
Surely DVB could have started on Saturday instead of mata, could easily do the exact same job and obviously he is more mobile and would offer more, we don't play with traditional wingers anyway so he could easily have got involved in play. Something just doesn't add up. Ole saying he will get plenty of games, well you've been rotating players Ole but still no room for him. weird.
As for Martial, how long do you keep hold of a player in the hope he'll reach his potential, he's showing no signs of having the right mentality to get there, it wouldn't bother me one bit if we let him go, he's just not got it in him. He's 24 and been around the first team long enough, we can't keep making excuses that he's still young etc, he isn't.
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Post by Karma on Nov 9, 2020 16:54:41 GMT
Good post on the first point about being like big Ron’s Utd(I never knew we only lost twice in the 80s against the top side at the time and I was at Anfield in 88 with a steaming hangover to make things worse). if you look at the 2 best sides over the last few years it shows you need either world class owners(city) or a world class manager(scouse) we have neither. You need both, a top coach can work wonders but they need to get hold of the players they need. This club is in desperate need of a football director who understands the transfer market and can organise our huge scouting network, to find quality players who dont cost 80m a pop. If you want an example of that club you just have to look at Bayern or Liverpool. This club is still living in the 90s. Managers like Ferguson dont exist anymore. Yes and no. Still think Liverpool’s owners got lucky with Klopp. I don’t know enough about their ownership to make a judgement but they have had success in the US in football haven’t they unlike the Glazers . We are living in the 90’s. Liverpool’s 90’s and making similar mistakes they did. |
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Post by johnboy14 on Nov 9, 2020 18:11:08 GMT
You need both, a top coach can work wonders but they need to get hold of the players they need. This club is in desperate need of a football director who understands the transfer market and can organise our huge scouting network, to find quality players who dont cost 80m a pop. If you want an example of that club you just have to look at Bayern or Liverpool. This club is still living in the 90s. Managers like Ferguson dont exist anymore. Yes and no. Still think Liverpool’s owners got lucky with Klopp. I don’t know enough about their ownership to make a judgement but they have had success in the US in football haven’t they unlike the Glazers . We are living in the 90’s. Liverpool’s 90’s and making similar mistakes they did. Klopps availability helped but they were bold and replaced Rodgers early in the season, they knew he was the man to hire and were ruthless about it. You see the same thing playing out with Ole, Ed and Glaciers always make difficult decisions when there not difficult anymore. |
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Post by Karma on Nov 9, 2020 19:18:43 GMT
Yes and no. Still think Liverpool’s owners got lucky with Klopp. I don’t know enough about their ownership to make a judgement but they have had success in the US in football haven’t they unlike the Glazers . We are living in the 90’s. Liverpool’s 90’s and making similar mistakes they did. Klopps availability helped but they were bold and replaced Rodgers early in the season, they knew he was the man to hire and were ruthless about it. You see the same thing playing out with Ole, Ed and Glaciers always make difficult decisions when there not difficult anymore. The only time the Glazers showed anything near ruthlessness was when they sacked Jose. Imo that was done for 3 main reasons 1 He was calling them out 2 The replacement would be so grateful for the opportunity he wouldn’t rock the boat and make demands. 3 They didn’t want to spend in January if they could get away with it. I know many think they got giddy and rushed making him permanent but so many briefs previously suggested they wouldn’t rush it. I think they liked the idea that he was the perfect shield for them as long as he wasn’t an absolute disaster. Would any other manager get away with some of our results over the last 18 months. So he’s turned out to be a good gamble for them>pre Covid anyway. |
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Post by Stew on Nov 9, 2020 19:29:05 GMT
You need both, a top coach can work wonders but they need to get hold of the players they need. This club is in desperate need of a football director who understands the transfer market and can organise our huge scouting network, to find quality players who dont cost 80m a pop. If you want an example of that club you just have to look at Bayern or Liverpool. This club is still living in the 90s. Managers like Ferguson dont exist anymore. Yes and no. Still think Liverpool’s owners got lucky with Klopp. I don’t know enough about their ownership to make a judgement but they have had success in the US in football haven’t they unlike the Glazers . We are living in the 90’s. Liverpool’s 90’s and making similar mistakes they did. FSG are vastly superior owners to the Glazers. They did with the Red Sox what they did with the scouse- take a former giant in the doldrums and restore them to glory. The Glazers won something of significance about 20 years ago. |
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Post by Stretty on Nov 9, 2020 21:19:09 GMT
Yes and no. Still think Liverpool’s owners got lucky with Klopp. I don’t know enough about their ownership to make a judgement but they have had success in the US in football haven’t they unlike the Glazers . We are living in the 90’s. Liverpool’s 90’s and making similar mistakes they did. FSG are vastly superior owners to the Glazers. They did with the Red Sox what they did with the scouse- take a former giant in the doldrums and restore them to glory. The Glazers won something of significance about 20 years ago. TBF the glazers did this but in reverse |
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