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Post by Stretty on Aug 22, 2021 19:53:42 GMT
Whether you buy it or not isn’t the point. The point is the group of players Ole inherited wasnt a complete disaster, which your post had suggested. No it didn’t. DDG, Pogba, Rashford, Lukaku and even Lingard are not a complete disaster. They were part of a considerably inferior squad to what we have today. Ole has done very well to improve the squad. I hope he’s lucky enough to reap the reward. His successor will inherit a squad in a much better state than he did. he’s spent around 400 million. If any Sunday league manger was given the Utd job they would also have improved the squad. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 20:01:13 GMT
How the fuck is Ole bringing Lingard on instead of VdB? Lingard shouldn't even be at the club. Bad line up, bad subs. VDB is a mystery. No idea what’s going on there. Last week Ole got the same level of abuse before kick-off. We battered Leeds. Bruno and Pogba got the credit. Today we missed chances, conceded a freak goal which shouldn’t have stood, Bruno was non existent, Sancho too and Ole gets all the abuse. It’s not that he was flawless, but isn’t it odd that unless we get three points then it’s on Ole but when we do win it’s our players that “save” him? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 20:03:16 GMT
No it didn’t. DDG, Pogba, Rashford, Lukaku and even Lingard are not a complete disaster. They were part of a considerably inferior squad to what we have today. Ole has done very well to improve the squad. I hope he’s lucky enough to reap the reward. His successor will inherit a squad in a much better state than he did. he’s spent around 400 million. If any Sunday league manger was given the Utd job they would also have improved the squad. Anyone would improve Jose’s squad? Is that what you’re saying? How does this fit with the concept of elite managers? |
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Post by Chris on Aug 22, 2021 20:11:09 GMT
How the fuck is Ole bringing Lingard on instead of VdB? Lingard shouldn't even be at the club. Bad line up, bad subs. VDB is a mystery. No idea what’s going on there. Last week Ole got the same level of abuse before kick-off. We battered Leeds. Bruno and Pogba got the credit. Today we missed chances, conceded a freak goal which shouldn’t have stood, Bruno was non existent, Sancho too and Ole gets all the abuse. It’s not that he was flawless, but isn’t it odd that unless we get three points then it’s on Ole but when we do win it’s our players that “save” him? Because Ole picked that terrible line up today and made those terrible subs. Against Leeds, the midfield had free reign to have a go, probably because it was at home. Away from home, he's gone negative again with essentially that back 6. Pogba was our best attacking threat. He brought Lingard on and dropped Pogba back. He could have kept Pogba advanced and brought VdB on. These are obvious changes. Today was always going to be more difficult than Leeds. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 20:13:48 GMT
Jose came 2nd in the league and won the Europa League and League Cup. Even if the squad he left behind needed a refresh, Ole has been able to spend over £400 million as well as benefiting from the emergence of Greenwood and the growing maturity of Scotty and Rashford and getting a player the calibre of Cavani on a free. And if you look over recent years Chelsea and Liverpool have both won the league in spite of City's dominance as well as both scooping up Champions League trophies. They didn't have perfect squads or even a perfect first XI. And signing Varane and Sancho have gone a long way towards addressing the remaining weaknesses in our team. In an ideal world we'd also sign a CDM and a RB and another CB. But we've got a squad that is good enough to mount a proper title challenge and be positioned to benefit if Chelsea or Manchester City slip up and win one of the domestic cups and get at least to the QF of the Champions League. But I cannot see us achieving any of those targets under Ole. Oh, yes… Ole was benefiting. He also got Bruno on a plate, although he can’t be considered a bargain because everyone knew how good he was. It’s OK to want a more experienced manager and all that, but this is lazy. How can you argue that the manager did not have a pivotal role in the emergence of our young players after he inherited Jose’s/LVG’s squad of mediocre deadwood? He brought in youngsters and let them express themselves. Some did better, others didn’t grasp the opportunity. I agree with the second part. Because Progress has been made, it’s make or break now. Ole needs a trophy to keep his job. Unfortunately it’s not a level playing field, and I feel it’s City’s title to lose. Even if he does go, I feel he’ll leave us in a considerably better shape looking forward compared with what we had when he first got here. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 20:17:50 GMT
VDB is a mystery. No idea what’s going on there. Last week Ole got the same level of abuse before kick-off. We battered Leeds. Bruno and Pogba got the credit. Today we missed chances, conceded a freak goal which shouldn’t have stood, Bruno was non existent, Sancho too and Ole gets all the abuse. It’s not that he was flawless, but isn’t it odd that unless we get three points then it’s on Ole but when we do win it’s our players that “save” him? Because Ole picked that terrible line up today and made those terrible subs. Against Leeds, the midfield had free reign to have a go, probably because it was at home. Away from home, he's gone negative again with essentially that back 6. Pogba was our best attacking threat. He brought Lingard on and dropped Pogba back. He could have kept Pogba advanced and brought VdB on. These are obvious changes. Today was always going to be more difficult than Leeds. Just to make myself clear, Ole didn’t cover himself in glory today. I tried to avoid the Ole in/Ole out ritual, but failed miserably. I guess it’s just annoying that he’s never credited for success but the knives are out following every dropped point. |
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Post by Stretty on Aug 22, 2021 20:34:39 GMT
Because Ole picked that terrible line up today and made those terrible subs. Against Leeds, the midfield had free reign to have a go, probably because it was at home. Away from home, he's gone negative again with essentially that back 6. Pogba was our best attacking threat. He brought Lingard on and dropped Pogba back. He could have kept Pogba advanced and brought VdB on. These are obvious changes. Today was always going to be more difficult than Leeds. Just to make myself clear, Ole didn’t cover himself in glory today. I tried to avoid the Ole in/Ole out ritual, but failed miserably. I guess it’s just annoying that he’s never credited for success but the knives are out following every dropped point. At the end of the day look where ole was before he got the Utd job and let’s see where he ends up after his time here. He won’t be hunted by any big club because he’s just not at that level(I wish he was but he just isn’t). |
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Post by Stew on Aug 22, 2021 20:35:26 GMT
Tuchel won the Champions League last season. I think that trumps what he did or didn’t do with PSG. Fair play. Avram Grant was a John Terry away from winning that too I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. |
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Post by viking22 on Aug 22, 2021 20:53:12 GMT
There is a difference between being a caretaker manager of an experienced team that is used to winning trophies and being a permanent manager of a side that needs restoring to its former glory. If we are feeling generous you can say that Ole has served a purpose in restoring harmony and providing some continuity after the tumultous post-Fergie years and helping us move away from the negative football LVG and Jose had us playing.
But he's been here long enough and he still hasn't won anything and has messed up a number of domestic cup semi-finals as well as the Europa League final and gifted City the title last season. Any other club he would have been sacked by now. But this season really is last chance saloon.
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Post by Bestie on Aug 22, 2021 21:00:02 GMT
If you want to go by League 'progress' then look at the points total. How many times has that improved? Once? Which was an improvement in comparison with the manager's best, not the club's in recent seasons. And that in a season where all major title contenders were hampered for at least half a season for various reasons. We were miles off winning the League last season. Absolute miles. Progress only counts if you win things. Without trophies 'progress' is just failure. I’ll try to make my point clearer. 2019-20 stopped than restarted. 2020-21 started with no real preparation and was played behind closed doors. This probably had substantial effect on results (our strange home and away records last season are good examples). I therefore think comparing points total across seasons is futile. On the other hand, league standings are the best comparative index as for how well a club did under given circumstances How is comparing points totals because 'COVID' futile but final positions not? Wouldn't a 'COVID' anomaly season be a COVID anomaly season for everything? |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 22, 2021 21:03:03 GMT
A few posts ago you were complaining Ole didn't have the squad to properly compete for the title. Now he's done really well improving the squad. Which is it? Also - Lingard is shite. Shouldn't be near the club. Isn't title winning level. Any manager who picks him for a title-challenging side is an idiot. Why are these mutually exclusive? It’s not complete, but it’s getting there. Progress and process are not popular words here, unless we lose and then they make a sarcastic guest appearance. Lingard could be an important member of the squad, if he accepts the role. You don’t win titles with 11 players. Sir Alex picked Jesper fucking Blomquist for a Champions League final, and we’ll agree he wasn’t a fool Progress and process aren't popular words because they're a pathetic excuse for failure. Frank Lampard said in January it would take five years for that Chelsea team to "gel". Lingard won't be an important member of a title-winning squad. He isn't good enough. |
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Post by thesheepdog on Aug 22, 2021 21:03:44 GMT
Look its only 2 games in and you can understand him not throwing the new signings in straight away as they are not likely to be anywhere near match fit.
That said to play matic and fred was a disaster waiting to happen. Compounded by playing martial who seems to have totally lost the ability to give a fuck.
We have to get all our players match fit and see where we are.
I do however agree with some on here that Ole is severely lacking and at times looks out of his depth.
Nothing is surer than he will be sacked if he wins nowt this year and I think that's highly likely
Poyba will then be off if bruno doesn't win trophies he will also want out.
This year really is shit or bust.
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Post by dazjoe on Aug 22, 2021 21:07:30 GMT
3 years and Ole's in game management is still utterly and completely woeful.
How can this not improve in 3 whole years?
We still sit around waiting for his changes when not winning a game, knowing he'll make the 3 subs in the 75th, 83rd and 89th minutes. How many times has this worked for him? How the fuck has he not got it into his thick head yet when it's 55 - 60 minutes on the clock, nothing is happening for us on the pitch, we're behind or drawing and he's still sitting there, gormlessly grinning and thinking "just keep waiting".
At which point does the light switch on for him? How can he not think "Actually, hold on. We've been here before; me waiting until the death before finally changing something. And from memory, it keeps not working. Could I............... change something now???"
He is easily at Moyes level for his substitutions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 21:09:13 GMT
I’ll try to make my point clearer. 2019-20 stopped than restarted. 2020-21 started with no real preparation and was played behind closed doors. This probably had substantial effect on results (our strange home and away records last season are good examples). I therefore think comparing points total across seasons is futile. On the other hand, league standings are the best comparative index as for how well a club did under given circumstances How is comparing points totals because 'COVID' futile but final positions not? Wouldn't a 'COVID' anomaly season be a COVID anomaly season for everything? We finished second last season. The fact our point total was perhaps not as high as Jose once achieved is insignificant in my opinions. Circumstances were different. Circumstances were (more or less) similar for everyone last season. Therefore comparing records within that bracket is more informative IMO |
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Post by dazjoe on Aug 22, 2021 21:12:04 GMT
Look its only 2 games in and you can understand him not throwing the new signings in straight away as they are not likely to be anywhere near match fit.That said to play matic and fred was a disaster waiting to happen. Compounded by playing martial who seems to have totally lost the ability to give a fuck. We have to get all our players match fit and see where we are. I do however agree with some on here that Ole is severely lacking and at times looks out of his depth. Nothing is surer than he will be sacked if he wins nowt this year and I think that's highly likely Poyba will then be off if bruno doesn't win trophies he will also want out. This year really is shit or bust. Probably why Grealish, Lukaku, Ings, Armstrong, Dennis, are all sitting on their clubs bench having to wait? Or did they all start and score on their first starts? No one else is doing this "ooh no, we can't start you yet. You have to wait" act with their big new signings. Except Ole of course, what a fucking surprise. |
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