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Post by Bestie on Jan 6, 2022 0:01:24 GMT
All I’d say about that is José is as good as anyone at souring the atmosphere at a football club. The Jose we got was Elton John during his coked up days, he wasn't the maverick manager from 2005 anymore. He was being eclipsed by Pep and Kloop when he got here. Ralf's long term job is to help rebuild the squad. If he does that, then I'll settle for 6th if better days are forthcoming. I couldn't give a monkeys about this season anymore. It's been completely ruined. Yet Jose still gave us our most success since Fergie and highest league finish. I was fed up by the end but honestly believe it is the worst decision we have made since 2005. |
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Post by redcase on Jan 6, 2022 3:21:26 GMT
The Jose we got was Elton John during his coked up days, he wasn't the maverick manager from 2005 anymore. He was being eclipsed by Pep and Kloop when he got here. Ralf's long term job is to help rebuild the squad. If he does that, then I'll settle for 6th if better days are forthcoming. I couldn't give a monkeys about this season anymore. It's been completely ruined. He was yesterday’s man, well past his best. Carried the aura of a man who hates football, he pretty much has since he was at Madrid. He won three trophies with us so I don't get what you're saying. At all. He's the only manager since Fergie to win multiple trophies with us. Daz has it right. Everyone on this board wanted Jose gone because he went after martial, Pogba and Shaw and wanted Perisic. I'd much rather we have Perisic over any of those wankers now. |
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Post by Sméagol on Jan 6, 2022 5:16:03 GMT
Let's not rewrite history here. It got bad with Jose and it wasn't going to get any better.
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Post by redcase on Jan 6, 2022 5:26:18 GMT
Let's not rewrite history here. It got bad with Jose and it wasn't going to get any better. Yeah. Don't rewrite history. We won more with Jose than anybody else and the same cunts who got him fucked off are doing it to another. |
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Post by Sméagol on Jan 6, 2022 6:23:06 GMT
Let's not rewrite history here. It got bad with Jose and it wasn't going to get any better. Yeah. Don't rewrite history. We won more with Jose than anybody else and the same cunts who got him fucked off are doing it to another. Was talking about the future with him. The first year was good and I've enjoyed it as much as anyone else but let's not kid ourselves beyond that. |
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Post by dazjoe on Jan 6, 2022 6:27:02 GMT
My point on Jose, and why I said I was contradicting myself, was that I blamed him 100% for the mess that United became in his final months.
He was toxic, no question. But the notion that it would be different under another manager has been well and truly disproven. These aresholes got the friendly "Hey team lets have drinks after work! I'm your mate not your boss. Mr Solksjaer was my father! Call me Ole" manager they wanted, and still fucked him over. And after a few weeks of Ralf they're just doing it again.
Maybe if Jose had been given free reign to dump half this lot things would be different. Maybe it wouldn't be. But I'm certainly not pinning all the blame on him anymore.
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Post by fergiegiveusawave on Jan 6, 2022 8:33:15 GMT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing in terms of Jose. As far as I remember Karma was virtually the only person on here who thought we shouldn't get rid, everyone else hated his treatment of certain players and felt he'd created such a toxic atmosphere at the club he had to go.
In hindsight he's been proven bang on. If people had just listened when he essentially said the likes of Pogba, Martial & Shaw weren't upto it then who knows where we'd have ended up under him.
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Post by redcase on Jan 6, 2022 8:53:18 GMT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing in terms of Jose. As far as I remember Karma was virtually the only person on here who thought we shouldn't get rid, everyone else hated his treatment of certain players and felt he'd created such a toxic atmosphere at the club he had to go. In hindsight he's been proven bang on. If people had just listened when he essentially said the likes of Pogba, Martial & Shaw weren't upto it then who knows where we'd have ended up under him. Karma and SET never wavered. I tried defending him in the beginning, but I was more bothered with league position towards the end rather than anything else. How wrong I was. The precedent set by players downing tools and getting him sacked was watershed. If a manager of his class, stature and level could be pushed out, anybody can. Fans have to turn on players. Can't allow then to keep posting bullshit social media messages and perform like wankers every week. |
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Post by Kojak on Jan 6, 2022 10:19:15 GMT
He was yesterday’s man, well past his best. Carried the aura of a man who hates football, he pretty much has since he was at Madrid. He won three trophies with us so I don't get what you're saying. At all. He's the only manager since Fergie to win multiple trophies with us. Daz has it right. Everyone on this board wanted Jose gone because he went after martial, Pogba and Shaw and wanted Perisic. I'd much rather we have Perisic over any of those wankers now. I wanted José gone because the atmosphere was sour, the football was dreadful and he was doing that thing he does where he makes it as toxic as possible in order to get out. He’s done it everywhere he’s been. Much like many here didn’t enjoy finishing second under Ole, I didn’t take any real joy from that second season under José. Turgid football, the signing of Sanchez, Lukaku up front, still miles off the top. He was yesterday’s man in that proper teams do not play that style of football anymore. Enjoyed having Zlatan and winning trophies early doors like, but let’s not kid ourselves on that José would’ve took us forward if he hadn’t been sacked. And by the way, I’ve nothing against him, absolutely loved him as a character and he’s achieved massive things. Much like LVG, he had the personality to manage Manchester United, the job wasn’t bigger than him. He was just several years too late. |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Jan 6, 2022 10:25:11 GMT
Jose after Fergie would have been perfect
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Post by viking22 on Jan 6, 2022 11:01:59 GMT
Conte was the obvious choice to take over. Ralf is a highly experienced and intelligent coach and could do a good job for us if the players were willing to listen, follow instructions and work hard for him and that is probably why he was successful at smaller clubs where he did not encounter the kind of egos and complacency and sense of entitlement he is experiencing here. But a lot of our players clearly do not respect him and are reacting badly to receiving some criticism and being told what to do after years of Ole giving unjustified praise to players and limited instructions and basically telling them to go out and enjoy themselves. The interim nature of his appointment also makes it difficult for him to impose his authority and I do not see the owners backing him over big name players.
It is also quite obvious in hindsight that Jose massively overachieved with the group of players he had. If he'd received proper backing in the transfer market at the end of his second season and been allowed to get rid of bad apples like Pogba and Martial and (at the time) Shaw then we could have enjoyed a few more successful seasons under him and be in a much better state than we are now.
Ole has taken us backwards. We have a group of players who have been under-coached for years but because they've received nothing but praise from Ole and enjoyed a very easy ride they hate the thought of hard work on the training ground, constructive criticism and detailed game instructions and they know that by downing tools they can get rid of any unpopular manager.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jan 6, 2022 13:10:28 GMT
a) Jose was right that the players are twats
b) Jose was also causing several problems and had to go
Both are true.
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Post by johnboy14 on Jan 6, 2022 13:22:31 GMT
My point on Jose, and why I said I was contradicting myself, was that I blamed him 100% for the mess that United became in his final months. He was toxic, no question. But the notion that it would be different under another manager has been well and truly disproven. These aresholes got the friendly "Hey team lets have drinks after work! I'm your mate not your boss. Mr Solksjaer was my father! Call me Ole" manager they wanted, and still fucked him over. And after a few weeks of Ralf they're just doing it again. Maybe if Jose had been given free reign to dump half this lot things would be different. Maybe it wouldn't be. But I'm certainly not pinning all the blame on him anymore. Jose has never been that kind of manager, sure he lived in a hotel for 3 years. That's not the behaviour of a manager with a long term plan. You hire Jose to win things and he did that but when he stopped winning he wasn't interested in rebuilding or finding a way through it. He wanted the club to spend 50m of Willian and we all know what Arsenal got with him. Jose wanted the sack in the end. |
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Post by kstandhand on Jan 6, 2022 14:58:34 GMT
The Jose we got was Elton John during his coked up days, he wasn't the maverick manager from 2005 anymore. He was being eclipsed by Pep and Kloop when he got here. Ralf's long term job is to help rebuild the squad. If he does that, then I'll settle for 6th if better days are forthcoming. I couldn't give a monkeys about this season anymore. It's been completely ruined. Yet Jose still gave us our most success since Fergie and highest league finish. I was fed up by the end but honestly believe it is the worst decision we have made since 2005. We were all feed up by the end,even Jose. The wheels came off when Woodward & the gimps fucked him over & refused to back him after finishing 2nd,had they backed him, suspect things would have been very different. What makes it even harder to stomach,is the money they then subsequently gave OGS to waste who by comparison was a nobody in the elite football management world. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jan 7, 2022 9:31:31 GMT
Haven’t disliked one of our own players as much as Maguire in a long, long time.
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