|
|
Post by missunited on Jan 22, 2007 17:13:53 GMT
Neville hit hard by defeatCAPTAIN Gary Neville described Manchester United's 2-1 defeat to Arsenal as "a kick in the teeth" - but insisted his men will bounce back. The Premiership leaders had been on course to open a nine-point advantage over Chelsea when Wayne Rooney broke his scoring duck to put them ahead at the Emirates Stadium. But Arsenal levelled late through Robin Van Persie and then snatched the victory deep into injury time with a brilliant header from Thierry Henry. Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger suggested United had been 10 minutes from winning the title - and it certainly was a missed opportunity after Chelsea's defeat to Liverpool on Saturday. Neville told MUTV: "It's a kick in the teeth for us but we have to recover from that. "The fact we're still six points clear is no consolation to us. It's difficult to think of the positives. We've played a lot worse here and won. "Overall it was a good performance but it was ruined. We're disappointed to say the least." Neville added: "It's a hard defeat but we'll recover, we'll be OK. We've got to get back on the winning track." Denied United dominated the first half but were denied just before the interval by Jens Lehmann's brilliant reaction save from a Henrik Larsson header. Rooney spent most of the game on the right flank as United packed the midfield and he arrived at the far post to score his first goal since December 9. United then paid for trying to kill the game off and Neville was frustrated with their defending in the closing stages as Arsenal threw everything forward. "We defended well until the last five minutes, then they started putting a lot of long balls forward which is unusual for them," said Neville. "Every goal can be avoided, things could have been done differently but we've got to pick ourselves up and get on with it. We must look at what went wrong in those five minutes." Victory completed a league double over United for Arsenal this season. But Gunners boss Arsene Wenger believes United are still comfortable favourites for the title. He said: "With 10 minutes to go Manchester United were maybe champions, but at the end of the game you cannot say that. "This will be a big disappointment for Manchester United - but do not expect them to crumble because of it. "Of course Manchester United will still be strong challengers for the title."
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jan 22, 2007 17:25:46 GMT
Bleurgh too sick to talk about it.
Draw would have been fair. Loads of shots for Arsenal, but VDS didnt have to make a single decent save...aside from the goals.
Oh well, 6 points clear.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sky Sports 1 on Jan 22, 2007 17:26:27 GMT
What annoys me isn't just the fact that we lost the game, but We lost it with a full squad available and on form.
Fergie made random tactical mistakes playing world class players out of position and then comes out after the game saying 'we won't make the same mistake's again'.
He has a habit of putting Giggs up top against top 4 sides and for some seemingly pointless reason, putting Rooney on left midfield. He's done it before, he'll do it again. It's getting annoying watching Fergie changing United's game against the big sides when they're steamrolling through the premeirship as it is, the others don't give us the same respect. The things he changes aren't even playing to our strengths...
|
|
|
|
Post by Stew on Jan 22, 2007 18:39:30 GMT
From tonights Guardian:
Ferguson needs to free the United 11
If Sir Alex Ferguson continues to straitjacket his players in big matches, he will sabotage their chances of winning as much as they should
Rob Smyth
January 22, 2007 05:32 PM
Arsène Wenger said that Manchester United were 10 minutes away from the championship at the Emirates Stadium yesterday. He was wrong: they were a second away. That, as Brian Clough famously pointed out, is how long it takes to score a goal. The problem was that United, a team with some of world football's more lustrous attackers, had absolutely no interest in scoring a goal. Their sole concern was to hold onto their lead, and as a result they allowed Arsenal to attack with impunity. In the end, United got exactly what their caution deserved.
Sir Alex Ferguson has done a lot of extremely good work this season, which has in part righted the wrongs of the lost years of 2003-06: he got rid of Ruud van Nistelrooy, albeit a year too late, persuaded Cristiano Ronaldo to stay, formed a midfield pairing of Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes, thrillingly rediscovered his transfer-market mojo, prescribed humble pie for those who'd written him off. He even realised that points accrued before Christmas count just the same as those in the new year. But the one thing he hasn't done is break the spell cast by his assistant, serial failure Carlos Queiroz, who has created in Ferguson a ruinous obsession with tactical sophistication and 4-5-1.
It manifests itself typically when United play away in Europe, or visit the Premiership's big three, but Ferguson isn't prejudiced when it comes to spreading the stealth; he has even played 4-5-1 away to mediocre teams like Reading, Wigan and Aston Villa this season. Given how well United have been performing, it amounts to an incomprehensible lack of trust in his players' considerable abilities. If Ferguson can't go for it when his side are bang in form, with the pressure off because of Chelsea's defeat at Liverpool, and against opposition missing their defensive screen, Gilberto Silva, when will he?
He is hardly alone in this - 4-5-1 and caginess are a lamentable norm of modern football - but the difference is that Ferguson talks constantly of adhering to the attacking traditions that are woven into the fabric of the club. And for the most part he does, as an unmatched record of 54 goals in 24 games in the Premiership this season suggests. But when the heat is really, really on, he loses his nerve. No question.
The statistics are revealing: United have scored only two goals in their last nine Champions League away games, and in the last 16 matches in that tournament they have only scored more than one goal on one occasion. And that was at Lyon, when they were 2-0 down and had no choice but to go for it. It's the same in the major domestic contests: United haven't scored a goal at Stamford Bridge since 2002 and have only scored one in the last three visits to Anfield. The one time they really cut loose was at Highbury in 2005, when machismo rendered strategy redundant in the Pizzagate rematch and United flattened Arsenal 4-2.
The reasons for Ferguson's fixation with tactical cuteness have been discussed at length, but the policy remains largely unfathomable. His squad, the majority of which are English or anglicised, are simply not cut out to play in such a passive way. Besides, why pick a team with no defensive midfielder and with two full-backs who are brilliant going forward but can't defend, and then play cagily? It's as incongruous as going to a nudist beach and nervously covering your modesty.
It was an approach for which Sven-Goran Eriksson was justly derided, yet Ferguson these days is little different. This should not, as if often the case, be confused with advocating the absurdly romantic tactics proffered by someone like Kevin Keegan. It is not about being recklessly gung-ho. It's about doing what you're on the pitch to do: play football, pass the ball, try and score a goal. Just as United did during their Treble season, when Ferguson's side gave two masterful examples of how to preserve a lead. Away to Internazionale, when United were 2-1 up on aggregate but getting battered, Ferguson brought on an attacking midfielder, Paul Scholes, for a defensive one, Ronny Johnsen, knowing that every successful pass meant another few seconds they wouldn't have to defend. United got a grip on the game and, for good measure, Scholes scored the tie-clinching goal.
A month later, in Juventus, United were drawing 3-3 on aggregate but ahead on away goals. For the final 45 minutes they held Juve at arms' length with rare comfort, immersing themselves in a zone of controlled aggression and rhythmic passing. Crucially, they maintained a considerable goal threat, and could have scored long before Andy Cole sealed the tie.
But Ferguson is a different animal now. Whereas once his mantra was to score one more than the opposition, now it is to concede one fewer. After the 1999 European Cup final, Ferguson of all people should know about the inherent fragility of a one-goal lead. But it is not like yesterday's defeat hasn't happened before. United were stung in La Coruna in almost identical circumstances in 2001; they were dumped out of the Champions League at the death by Porto in 2004; and they surrendered the initiative and a point to Chelsea with a pathetically subservient second-half performance at Old Trafford in November. It keeps on happening, Ferguson keeps on lamenting his bad luck, and then a month later he does it again. Surely there are only so many times you can be mugged before you start taking a different route home?
Apparently not. It was bad enough to start the match with 4-5-1 yesterday, with Rooney an intermittent influence on the wing and Ryan Giggs swallowed up in the hole, a position in which he is consistently ineffective, for the umpteenth time in his career, but the manner in which United settled for 1-0 - and, even worse, 1-1 - was impossible to reconcile with Ferguson's rhetoric. The palpable time-wasting was just embarrassing, a stain on the reputation of a club at which winning alone should never be enough.
While the decision to take off Ronaldo, and thus allow the previously engaged Emmanuel Eboué to burst forward and create the winner, was a palpable example of United's flawed logic, the manifestations were generally more subtle. Against a team as forensic and talented as Arsenal, incessant defending can overwhelm the senses - tracking movement, watching for one-twos, intercepting threaded through-balls, trying to stay focused on the ball and not Thierry Henry's seductively twinkling toes.
You need time to breathe, recover and go again, but the constant, almost wilful surrendering of possession meant that Arsenal's attacks were increasingly regular. It became footballing Tetris and, without a pause button, something had to get through eventually. The overwhelming mental strain resulted in a costly lack of concentration in the final minute, when the otherwise outstanding Nemanja Vidic failed to pick up Henry. It only took a second to undo 93 minutes' good work from him. If Ferguson doesn't start to believe in his players when it really matters, he might undo a whole season's work.
Mmmm...Some good points and some bollox ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jan 22, 2007 18:46:48 GMT
What we have too look at is that we're in a better position than we were before this weekend. Same points difference, but one less game to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stew on Jan 22, 2007 19:01:08 GMT
What we have too look at is that we're in a better position than we were before this weekend. Same points difference, but one less game to go. True and Our next four games apart from Spurs away look pretty straightforward. |
|
|
|
Post by redom on Jan 22, 2007 19:32:23 GMT
We're still in a good position but our impotent peformances against the better teams this season doesn't fill me with confidence considering the tough away games we have left, and I fear this dreaded 4-5-1 may appear again and cost us more points so we're going to have to hope Chelsea don't come out of this slump they're in anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Yank on Jan 22, 2007 19:42:30 GMT
We're still in a good position but our impotent peformances against the better teams this season doesn't fill me with confidence considering the tough away games we have left, and I fear this dreaded 4-5-1 may appear again and cost us more points so we're going to have to hope Chelsea don't come out of this slump they're in anytime soon. I agree Redom, not to mention possibly meeting either Chelsea or Arsenal again in the FA Cup or CL. |
|
|
|
Post by Sky Sports 1 on Jan 22, 2007 19:43:25 GMT
What we have too look at is that we're in a better position than we were before this weekend. Same points difference, but one less game to go. At some point though, behind the scenes, Fergie really needs to look at his tactics against the big teams. To play well United need to attack, and to attack well United need people like Wayne and Giggs in the right places.. Changing our game for the big teams playing people out of position won't do us any favours. I agree with parts of that article, especially the opening paragraph or so. Don't agree with the part about Queiroz, if you read Fergie's book he goes on about thinking about big games like Juve, playing Giggs up top to challenge people with his different assets. He didn't win the treble by being tactically retarded. But during the treble winning season and most title winning seasons, he rarely played people out of position like he does Wayne in the big games. |
|
|
|
Post by redom on Jan 22, 2007 19:49:37 GMT
We're still in a good position but our impotent peformances against the better teams this season doesn't fill me with confidence considering the tough away games we have left, and I fear this dreaded 4-5-1 may appear again and cost us more points so we're going to have to hope Chelsea don't come out of this slump they're in anytime soon. I agree Redom, not to mention possibly meeting either Chelsea or Arsenal again in the FA Cup or CL. You would hope if it came to a knock out competition we would be forced to play in a more offensive way and push for a win rather than looking as timid as we have in league games so it might not be the worst thing in the world to meet them in that situation but I'd still rather avoid them. |
|
Buliwyf
United Bench Warmer
fear has never helped a man
Posts: 513
|
Post by Buliwyf on Jan 22, 2007 19:53:34 GMT
hey yank how were the gooners in your pub?
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Yank on Jan 22, 2007 21:04:27 GMT
hey yank how were the gooners in your pub? Unfortunately I wasn't able to go because my daughter got some kind of stomach virus and started vomitting just as I was getting ready to leave. I think she's gifted with clairvoyance and started vomitting when she saw ARSEnal was going to win. I'm sure it must have been crazy there which in a way I'm glad not to have been there because the gooners her are pretty annoying, even more so than the scousers and rent boys. |
|
|
|
Post by missunited on Jan 22, 2007 21:06:53 GMT
Yesterdays match was a great spectucal and I am at a loss to how we lost that game after playing what I thought was one of the best games we have all season. Defensively we were solid and in the end Arsenal had to resort to tactics they personally slate other teams for using. Evra, Vidic and carrick were excellent and Rooney scored as he always does against the Arsenal. I think it was a glorious chance to potentially put the title beyond the chasing pack. Its been a fustrating part of our season because when it looks like we are gonna put some proper distance between ourselves and the rest something goes wrong.
Though I take heart because we proved we can go to a big ground and at times play good opposition off the park. It gives me great encouragement for those big away games yet to come.
;D Keep the faith.
johnboy14
|
|
|
|
Post by danishred on Jan 23, 2007 12:10:01 GMT
In the 98/99 season we didnt beat arsenal in the league and lost to them in the Charity shield. We will meet them in the FA Cup and win and then we will go on to win the treble...trust me. It is FATE!  |
|
|
|
Post by Manc Fever on Jan 23, 2007 12:24:01 GMT
In the 98/99 season we didnt beat arsenal in the league and lost to them in the Charity shield. We will meet them in the FA Cup and win and then we will go on to win the treble...trust me. It is FATE! AMEN  |
|
