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Post by irishredmufc on Jul 12, 2010 21:58:47 GMT
i'd definitly have hargo ahead of Rio and on par with Evra and Valencia.. actually come to think of it they could be just ahead of him, if we saw more of hargo people would rate him much higher. its very unfair to judge him due to his unlucky injury problens.
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peejay80
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Post by peejay80 on Jul 12, 2010 22:01:24 GMT
i'd definitly have hargo ahead of Rio and on par with Evra and Valencia.. actually come to think of it they could be just ahead of him, if we saw more of hargo people would rate him much higher. its very unfair to judge him due to his unlucky injury problens. when i talk about man united or Hargreaves i dont even put the 2 together. i dont really class him as a united player having played so little. his quality is beyond question, could have been a great. to late now though. he is finished.
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Post by irishredmufc on Jul 12, 2010 22:10:58 GMT
he's 29 so he hasnt too long left imo. has he always been this injury prone? didnt think he was at bayern.
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Post by Raf's Hairdryer Treatment on Jul 12, 2010 22:52:47 GMT
I think the fact that half of this thread is about something other than Carrick speaks volumes.
Carrick the squad player also says a lot.
I originally thought that he was the ideal "central midfielder" for us. Playing the role in a more traditional sense perfect for 4-4-2. Not quite box 2 box, but a fluid role, where he drops deep when a partner pushes up, and vice versa.
Now I've changed my mind. Last season proved that one up top worked best as we had no prolific forward pairing, and in a 3 man mid Carrick offers very little.
In that system with the players we have, I can't see it working without 2 playing the holding role. One destroyer, that has to be Fletch, and one to spray the ball around. Sadly there's still only one player in the squad who can do that with any consistency. Paul Scholes. Certainly not Michael Carrick.
Right now Carrick, (IMHO,) is on par with Gibson. Both nowhere near good enough to demand a place in the first team. I highlighted the right now because, though I agree form is temporary and class is permanent, you cannot put a full season down to form. I saw little more from him than 20-30mins worth of quality in a handful of games.
Sad really, as when he's on his game, he can run a midfield, but I have no confidence in that happening now, and by the looks of things, neither does he.
On transfers, I'd happily take anywhere between the touted £12 to £17M for him. Mainly because there's a shed-load of players I'd pick ahead of him.
Now that I've balanced the books a little on this thread, anyone fancy a chat about John O'Shea?
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Post by ericactor1 on Jul 12, 2010 23:32:37 GMT
So if Hargreaves goes on too never play for United again will we all still say that he was a fantastic player for us ?
I like him don't get me wrong I just can't stop myself from getting annoyed at the fact that he hasn't touched a ball in almost two years.
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peejay80
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Post by peejay80 on Jul 13, 2010 0:19:23 GMT
I think the fact that half of this thread is about something other than Carrick speaks volumes. Carrick the squad player also says a lot. I originally thought that he was the ideal "central midfielder" for us. Playing the role in a more traditional sense perfect for 4-4-2. Not quite box 2 box, but a fluid role, where he drops deep when a partner pushes up, and vice versa. Now I've changed my mind. Last season proved that one up top worked best as we had no prolific forward pairing, and in a 3 man mid Carrick offers very little. In that system with the players we have, I can't see it working without 2 playing the holding role. One destroyer, that has to be Fletch, and one to spray the ball around. Sadly there's still only one player in the squad who can do that with any consistency. Paul Scholes. Certainly not Michael Carrick. Right now Carrick, (IMHO,) is on par with Gibson. Both nowhere near good enough to demand a place in the first team. I highlighted the right now because, though I agree form is temporary and class is permanent, you cannot put a full season down to form. I saw little more from him than 20-30mins worth of quality in a handful of games. Sad really, as when he's on his game, he can run a midfield, but I have no confidence in that happening now, and by the looks of things, neither does he. On transfers, I'd happily take anywhere between the touted £12 to £17M for him. Mainly because there's a shed-load of players I'd pick ahead of him. Now that I've balanced the books a little on this thread, anyone fancy a chat about John O'Shea? +1. excellent post. the system does indeed count for a lot. he doesnt work with 3 in the middle. it almost makes him and his style redundent doesnt it?
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peejay80
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Post by peejay80 on Jul 13, 2010 0:23:02 GMT
So if Hargreaves goes on too never play for United again will we all still say that he was a fantastic player for us ? I like him don't get me wrong I just can't stop myself from getting annoyed at the fact that he hasn't touched a ball in almost two years. if he never playes again? then he was a full on, 5 star flop. not in the sense of the word like Berbatov is a flop, hargo is different. Hargo would have dominated our midfield had he been fit. ive no doubt about that. but a return of 30 odd games over many years in exchange for 18m quid just isnt on. and thats despite him doing more in those 30 odd games than Berbatov has done in going on for 100. still cant get over the fact we actually signed him knowing full well his knees were fucked. beggers belief.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 1:06:07 GMT
Only sell Carrick if we're gonna be able to re-invest the money received in the squad. Otherwise it's way too risky. If Hargreaves never makes it back to the top level, and Giggs and Scholes form dies away due to being 37 and 36, and Anderson suffers after his cruciate injury and struggles to get back to his debut season form, and these are all very possible scenarios, then leaves us with pretty much only Fletch as the bit of quality in the centre of the park (Gibson will never, ever be a quality player for us). At least Carrick has some class, as seen in his first couple of season's, is young enough to not be 'over the hil', and has a lot of experience. If we can go and spend the 10 - 15 million on another centre mid, then perhaps we should let him go, but otherwise, a big no no from me
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Post by proximityinfotech3 on Jul 13, 2010 6:46:12 GMT
.i doubt sunderland cud afford 7m and even if they cud i dont think carrick will go to a club like sunderland..after winnig a trophy in united evry season..beats me why they waste their time with such rumours ______________________________________________ Pallet Racking | Fitflop Boots
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deroiste
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Post by deroiste on Jul 13, 2010 9:31:57 GMT
Can't see him going to Sunderland. A Spurs return if anything.
Hopefully Cleverly will do well on tour and SAF will keep him rather than loaning him out. I'd love to see him getting a run.
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Post by NR7 on Jul 13, 2010 9:59:33 GMT
@ rax
Good points made but can you name realistic targets in the region of 15mil than can slot in right away ? I honestly can't think of anyone else apart from Ireland and in that case, we are better off persisting with Carrick till hopefully a couple of youngsters step up..
Carrick should have been effective in a 3 man midfield. The same way Seedorf, Pirlo and Kaka worked a treat for Milan. It terms of playing style, Carrick is similar to Pirlo (deep lying playmaker who spreads play). It's all a confidence thing I guess and whether he will eve regain it, am not sure but I believe that Carrick can still do a job against bottom half teams and unless we sign a real quality mid, offloading Carrick is a non starter.
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deroiste
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Post by deroiste on Jul 13, 2010 10:05:19 GMT
Steven Defour is a quality player NR7
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Post by NR7 on Jul 13, 2010 10:28:44 GMT
He maybe quality but having signed a 4 year contract extension, I highly doubt he ll be sold for anything under 20-25mil.. Fergie sending him a letter is no random act of sympathy & either a) His foot injury has stalled his development that SAF dropped his interest or b) SAF feels we don't need him.. Read that he has very good vision & passing range. Defour is a candidate for replacing Carrick but is he a realistic option ?
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deroiste
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Post by deroiste on Jul 13, 2010 11:11:47 GMT
He said (Defour) that he was ready for the next stage of his development in Jan 2009, i.e, a move abroad.. The signing of a new contract goes against that though. So I don't know where that leaves a move for him. But as you said, the new contact means a higher fee. I do think he would be a good replacement for Carrick, but realistic? Probably not.
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Post by irishredmufc on Jul 13, 2010 11:16:18 GMT
@ericator - i'm not saying Hargo wont go down as a United flop, he more than likely will. I just think its unfair to label him a flop as he obviously has the talent but has been cursed with injuries. Anyone that plays sport and has suffered a long term injury know how frustrating it is, but sadly theres nothing you can do.
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