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Post by Sky Sports 1 on Aug 2, 2012 18:15:57 GMT
Thank you jay. I was going to say the same thing. When Sahin was fit, he started getting games. Yes, even in a midfield including Xabi Alonso, Ozil, Diarra, Kaka, Khedira and occasionally Coentrao, Pepe or Marcelo. @ Sky Sports - It isn't the fact we "only" lost the Title on goal difference to Manchester fucking city that bothers me, it's that we blew an 8 point lead in the final straight. We lost to Wigan and drew at home to Everton. Unacceptable. The trip away to the Etihad was a disgrace, and I lost some respect for Ferguson that night. Shit, old, legless, midfield; didn't start our best player (Valencia was in the form of his life); we set up for the first time in 25 years with fear etched into the tactics. It was a fucking debacle. An 83 point total would've been enough to win the title in 4 out of 5 of the previous seasons. Goal difference was also right up there. You want a player who can win a game vs West Ham away but you don't want the Premier Leagues top scorer I'm not sure there's any winning with you mate!
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Post by traffordbrown on Aug 2, 2012 18:18:53 GMT
We've got a former Premier League Golden Boot winner in our ranks already and he can't get a game. Just play him instead.
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Post by Bestie on Aug 2, 2012 18:41:07 GMT
Thank you jay. I was going to say the same thing. When Sahin was fit, he started getting games. Yes, even in a midfield including Xabi Alonso, Ozil, Diarra, Kaka, Khedira and occasionally Coentrao, Pepe or Marcelo. @ Sky Sports - It isn't the fact we "only" lost the Title on goal difference to Manchester fucking city that bothers me, it's that we blew an 8 point lead in the final straight. We lost to Wigan and drew at home to Everton. Unacceptable. The trip away to the Etihad was a disgrace, and I lost some respect for Ferguson that night. Shit, old, legless, midfield; didn't start our best player (Valencia was in the form of his life); we set up for the first time in 25 years with fear etched into the tactics. It was a fucking debacle. An 83 point total would've been enough to win the title in 4 out of 5 of the previous seasons. Goal difference was also right up there. You want a player who can win a game vs West Ham away but you don't want the Premier Leagues top scorer I'm not sure there's any winning with you mate! I can take such tremendous solace that we allowed city to buy the soul of football in just a few years of winning the oil lottery, but it was very, very close. It makes it okay because it would have won the League in other seasons. Except I can't take that solace and it doesn't make it alright. Forget 83 points, forget high goal difference. First is first and second is nothing. Especially when first was Manchester Goddamned city. I didn't say I didn't want van Persie, in fact I've been one of the people on here excited by the prospect. But if it's at the expense of what we really, desperately need, then no, I don't actually want him. I didn't ask for a match-winner against West Ham either. My point is that I want a midfielder who can actually stop a team from playing up to our 18 yard box with 5-10 minutes of a game left and we're hanging on like Coventry versus Barcelona. Moura nor van Persie both are not that player. Sahin could be. Yet we hear reports of a move to Arsenal close to fruition, and we're off chasing what would be luxuries in our squad like Lucas Moura and Robin van Persie. It's all about context. We've got a former Premier League Golden Boot winner in our ranks already and he can't get a game. Just play him instead. Don't be daft traff, Berbatov has 'had his chances' and 'doesn't fit'. God forbid we put a little faith in a talented footballer and play him in the position he should have been in his entire United career. Interesting that he managed to be a golden boot winner from being the furthest forward striker, yet outside that period he has been played as a second striker. He's had his chances though, hasn't taken them.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Aug 2, 2012 18:48:41 GMT
An 83 point total would've been enough to win the title in 4 out of 5 of the previous seasons. Goal difference was also right up there. You want a player who can win a game vs West Ham away but you don't want the Premier Leagues top scorer I'm not sure there's any winning with you mate! I can take such tremendous solace that we allowed city to buy the soul of football in just a few years of winning the oil lottery, but it was very, very close. It makes it okay because it would have won the League in other seasons. Except I can't take that solace and it doesn't make it alright. Forget 83 points, forget high goal difference. First is first and second is nothing. Especially when first was Manchester Goddamned city. I didn't say I didn't want van Persie, in fact I've been one of the people on here excited by the prospect. But if it's at the expense of what we really, desperately need, then no, I don't actually want him. I didn't ask for a match-winner against West Ham either. My point is that I want a midfielder who can actually stop a team from playing up to our 18 yard box with 5-10 minutes of a game left and we're hanging on like Coventry versus Barcelona. Moura nor van Persie both are not that player. Sahin could be. Yet we hear reports of a move to Arsenal close to fruition, and we're off chasing what would be luxuries in our squad like Lucas Moura and Robin van Persie. It's all about context. We've got a former Premier League Golden Boot winner in our ranks already and he can't get a game. Just play him instead. Don't be daft traff, Berbatov has 'had his chances' and 'doesn't fit'. God forbid we put a little faith in a talented footballer and play him in the position he should have been in his entire United career. Interesting that he managed to be a golden boot winner from being the furthest forward striker, yet outside that period he has been played as a second striker. He's had his chances though, hasn't taken them. POTD Bestie, POTD. (Post Of The Day)
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Post by Sky Sports 1 on Aug 2, 2012 19:02:00 GMT
Thats all fine and everything, but you can't win every single time.
The midfields that have had it consistently over us in the past few years are listed like this: Barcelona Barcelona Barcelona
They are probably the best midfield that there has ever been. You can only create something like that about every 20 years.
Once again, whether you approve of the players or not, we are best covered in numbers in central midfield over any other area of the pitch. I'll bet that aside from the possiblity of Dembele, we will not strengthen there.
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Post by SAF_Legend on Aug 2, 2012 19:13:47 GMT
Sahin would be a nice addition, especially maybe in co-junction with Kagawa (did they get to play together in Dortmund?).
But I don't think we will buy another central midfield, with what it looks like Anderson "giving his all" for this season. Cleverley, Scholes, Giggs, Powell, Carrick - 6 midfielders is enough to go around for 2 positions. I'd like to see a left back come in, or a right back.
If we're going to switch our tactic with an attacking midfielder, such as Kagawa's best role, then I would hope Anderson be given a shot at trying that role too.
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Post by Daz on Aug 2, 2012 19:30:07 GMT
But in most of the important games, we don't play 4-4-2 we go with 3 in midfield, so I think the gaffer knows when putting Scholes in there for creativity we then lack legs so compensates with another player and goes with a trio and goes with two wingers and one up top going in 4-3-3 going forward. I see this happening again and Kagawa probably going left midfield when we do this. So it's 6 into 3 for me.
If we bought Moura he wouldn't play in these tactical games, maybe brought on to create a spark, but his defensive game and tactical side is non-existent at the moment.
Which is why I'm frustrated we don't seem to be in for midfielders. Anderson hasn't done anything to be trusted with injuries and responsibility.. Powell is young and raw. Clevz is still young too. Giggs and Scholes are aged and can't be relied on. Carrick is the only one I'd trust in a big game. For god sake midfield is a problem fucking area. Regardless of formation we need another mobile midfielder because like Bestie said we threw games away when our midfield got ran over by the liked of fucking Everton. It's all well and good saying when our midfield was in it's pomp only Barcelona bettered it, but let's not forget that wasn't last season, last season the likes of Bilbao bettered it.
It's a problem that keeps getting worse and we're polyfiller-ing with youth instead of buying or taking a chance like we do with wingers on tried and tested players.
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Post by Tatty on Aug 2, 2012 20:23:14 GMT
We might be 'well stocked' in Midfield, but really, Manchester United SHOULD not be relying on a 38, nearly 39 year old Ryan Giggs, who despite his willingness should not be playing an active part in a title chasing team. His passing on a bad day, is horrendous. When a ball isn't played to his feet, he stand hands on hips, then gesticulates wildly. We give Berba and Ronaldo shit for that.
Scholes is probably one of the best 5 midfielders in the league, but I think that says more about other midfielders than it does for him. But again, as good as he is, we shouldn't be relying on an OUT OF RETIREMENT 37 year old.
It's bad enough we weren't willing to stump £20mill apiece for either Silva or Mata in the last 3 years, two players who would've made a huge difference. We've addressed that in the signing of Kagawa, so that's by the by, but the annoyance still stands. £20mill for David Silva is one of the bargains of modern football.
I wouldn't mind so much if Fergie were willing to play the likes of Pogba or Tunnicliffe in midfield, but he seems to have lost his faith in what we're producing in-house. What happened to we don't buy stars, we make them? Who was the last player who's come through and really made a difference to the team? I mean, Cleverley looks a player, but as a few people point out, it's all well and good doing it for Watford and Wigan, but it's doing it for us that counts, and doubts remain over his long-term fitness, whether you want to argue the point or not. Add to this the fact that Jones didn't get a look in in midfield after impressing in the few games he played there with Carrick was another clanger dropped. Especially in the Everton game where he could've come on just to help stem the flow.
It's for those reasons above that me and Bestie get fucked off when a player of Sahin's UNDOUBTED ability is not coming here, on loan, for what I would guess would be a fucking pittance, as we could ask Real to subsidise his wage whilst he's here. Instead Fergie's off doing his best Harry Redknapp impressions telling the press how we're in for Lucas and RvP, in what appears to be nothing but an appeasement exercise to us fans, whilst Arsenal, a team who've strengthened significantly this Summer are off out getting players who'd be perfect for us.
And it's not just Barca who've bested our midfield:
Crystal Palace Man City twice Wigan Everton Basle Bilbao Benfica Ajax
All dominated us in that area. Fucking Wigan embarrassed us in midfield. Fucking McArthur and McCArthy. If that wasn't the wake up call Fergie needed then I dread to think what is.
And yes I'm bashing Fergie here, either he's on the biggest wind up in football history in not addressing the midfield situation, or he HONESTLY thinks we're good to go with what we;ve got, despite 95% of United fans and the footballing world at large thinking differently.
FUCK!
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Post by reddub on Aug 2, 2012 20:35:50 GMT
Daz, do you genuinely think that we 'don't seem to be in for midfielders'?
For any United fan to think that Fergie, our scouts and United in general have their collective heads stuck in the sand, ignoring the midfield area, is just plain ridiculous.
It transpired that we were after Ozil, Sneijder and Nasri to name three. With Nasri we were close but he fucked off to City for extra money and Sneijder effectively came out and thanked United for their interest in him, and Ozil ended up at Real.
The situation regarding attempting to sign midfielders is a different issue, but suggesting that we're just not in for midfield players is a misconception.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Aug 2, 2012 20:38:11 GMT
And it's not just Barca who've bested our midfield: Crystal Palace Man City twice Wigan Everton Basle Bilbao Benfica AjaxFUCK! Ironic that we've been linked with a central player from each of these teams in the recent past, clearly they have something people think would better what we have. Which is true.
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Post by Daz on Aug 2, 2012 20:55:08 GMT
Red Dub, whether we've been in for them or not in the past, it's in this current transfer window it doesn't look like it. If our scouts were genuinely looking at midfielders we'd have seen a bit more movement over the years, but our central midfield has been stagnant for a while in my opinion and culminated in embarrassing displays last term against lesser teams. If we're genuinely in for midfielders, we would have had a backup choice to Ozil, Sneijder and Nasri in the form of a detailed shortlist because I'm sure there's quite a few players that would improve our midfield.
But as we talk about this we've actually been linked with a £7 million bid for Victor Wanyama which bucks the fucking trend.
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majorred
United Reserve Player
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Post by majorred on Aug 2, 2012 21:03:26 GMT
Sahin>Wanyama :-(
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Post by jimbonda on Aug 2, 2012 21:12:58 GMT
what's fergies role in this? He publicly said we're interested in Moura and RVP? so he's conspiring to dupe the fans? anyone who thinks he'd blatantly lie to the fans about going in for players with the intent on keeping them sweet needs to have a look at themselves
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Post by Stew on Aug 2, 2012 21:25:35 GMT
Chaps, I've written off us ever getting a top class, international central midfielder while Fergie is still in charge. And you know what? I'm happier for it. Because either things continue as is or I get a huge suprise. It's easier on the soul.
As has been said, we have been in for Nasri, Sneijder, Ozil etc. We've been waiting for Anderson and Cleverley to develop/stay fit. We were unlucky with Hargreaves THE player we most desperately needed to stay clear of injuries. The thing with Fletch is just an unfortunate freak. So a combination of bad luck in injuries and the transfer market (City gazumping us basically) has lead us to this point. So we hope. We hope that by some miracle Fletch returns. We hope that Anderson finally gets consistency to go with his talent. That Clevs physically can toughen up. That Powell can make a huge leap in terms of standard of football. That one of Tunnicliffe or Petrucci can break through. But what we don't not hope for is a major midfield signing. Because that is not happening. didn't happen after Rome. Didn't happen after Wembley. Why would anyone think it's going to now?
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Post by Stew on Aug 2, 2012 21:31:40 GMT
And if any of those things above come through (Clevs being the most likely for me, he's been excellent at the Olympics) then the thing is, we'll be fine. I believe that. But should Utd settle for fine? A club where as far back as I can remember central midfield has been a strength, not a area of the pitch where or opponents attacked us, saw it as a weakness?
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