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Post by ginger18legend on Aug 28, 2012 22:57:11 GMT
That would be my fantasy team at least. Kagawa might be superb in his current role but he too will have days when he finds the going tough. As for having a proper winger there, both Nani and Young are expendable in my book if the alternative is playing those three together. Nani might have good close control but he first needs to up his level of consistency for me to have more faith in him. Besides, I'm not to sure if he'll be here beyond August.Why not? It would be retarded to sell Nani. the only conceivable reason would be some extreme level of drama we haven't been privy too and at what point? He wouldn't then have started at Everton. On the consistency point all i'll add is this and then will discontinue on talking about him in this thread for my own benefit. Last season in terms of goals and assists he produced almost as much as Valencia did his own bestest award winning season and with the Nani vitriol around here the impression is Nani had quite a terrible year, which seems ironic. Also he showed a hell of a lot of consistency over the period of Jan 2010- March 2011. He dragged us through that time period where Rooney had his contract tantrum and disappeared for 3 months, setting up more goals than anyone that year by a clear margin. Over the time period mentioned he was scoring and assisting at a combined rate of once per game. Last year wasn't good by the standard he set before, fair enough. Lets not pretend he's never shown any consistency ever though. That would just be goldfish syndrome, which seems to be a bit of a problem on here at times. If we were to sell him and regains that form, well done, we'd have just sold a £50m player. Me though I'd rather we just keep him as he enter his peak years and get him back to his best and maybe even another step beyond. A best that is better than certain other players in our squad. Easy now. I didn't say I want to see him gone. Neither did I say he has never been consistent. If you read carefully what I said I was just lending some credibility to rumours of the Zenit bid for him. Stats might show otherwise, but Valencia is a way more consistent player than Nani for me. Especially in terms of not wasting possession at critical times in important areas. Stats can never reflect that. And you can't convince me that Nani is more consistent than Kagawa, Rooney and Van Persie. We have deviated from the topic. I just wanted to say I'd like to see a fluid formation. For the record - I'd be happy if Nani stays but I won't lose any sleep if he leaves. |
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 28, 2012 23:13:36 GMT
Hah sorry I didn't mean to direct it square at you, but the flippant talk of Nani going off to Zenit for £18mill is just so retarded that its wound me up  I'm not arguing Nani performed more consistently last year than Valencia, he didn't but then it was Valencias best season. Tony still didn't really deliver that much more. You can say about giving the ball away, but if Tony V many many crosses don't end up as goals, well where's the ball gone? He's a solid performer but people on here overrate the actual cutting edge he provides. Based on the views of some on here you'd think he hits 25-30 assists a year with his wanktastic, pin point, consistent crosses. Nani was consistent and did deliver repeatedly in the period I mentioned before and had way more cutting edge than Tony V has on his best days. I just don't get the flippant attitude thats developed. One key aspect for our future success is getting Nani back too his best form, which he undeniably has shown over an extended period before. One middling season and fair amount seemed to have care so little and want to weigh up selling him. |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 28, 2012 23:18:05 GMT
The problem with Nani is that when he's off form (which is more often than on these days) you can tell from about 5 minutes in. And in those days, he's a liability. A genuine detriment to the team, not a 'carried' player, but an actual hindrance to the rest of the lads.
A bit like Rooney on his off days. And a lot like Giggs, on his basically every days.
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 28, 2012 23:27:16 GMT
Yeh he seemed to have more bad games last season, which I admit wasn't his finest season. Valencia though has his days where he just doesn't seem to have beating of his man (kind of important to his style), which to me seems a bit of a confidence issue. Against Fulham he was rather quiet and never seemed to get around the LB that much. Oddly enough his better crosses were off his left peg which was nice to see. Though Rafael was cutting through them at will so it was just a bit weird overral. He does have his off days but I guess with his style his is just less overtly annoying. He just sticks on his wing and doesn't achieve much.
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Post by ginger18legend on Aug 28, 2012 23:28:46 GMT
I agree that from Jan 2010 to March 2011 Nani was excellent. He was our best player. And I was happy to see him win the end of season award too. He deserved it. But his form seems to have tapered after that - not through any fault of his own. Valencia on the other hand is on the up. You can see a gradual improvement in performances since his return from that horrific injury. Towards the end of last season he was literally unplayable.
We now have the quandary of having two amazing wingers and one very good winger. One of those amazing wingers frustrates me a lot more than the other two. So if I (and I'll stress on 'I' here) had to chose one to start, it would be Valencia. If the second spot was also up for grabs I'd give it to either one of Nani or Young (whoever is playing better at that time).
The thing about Valencia's crosses losing possession - they don't happen as often as Nani's.
Zenit bid - Its beginning to gather more and more momentum by the day. Their manager has expressed his interest publicly. We haven't refuted it and I don't think Sir Alex wants to give Nani 130k/week. Whether he deserves it or not is a different issue altogether.
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Post by fletchabey on Aug 28, 2012 23:39:21 GMT
It would be a full time PR job to refute everything said about us. Largely we just dont, unless our own fans start chatting shite about Fergie and payoffs.
About the form, one thing not mentioned - the Euro's. Nani was superb if you caught any of Portugals games. If they'd had a a real goalscorer he would have set up a hatful of goals and he outshone Ronaldo most of the time*. One game back for us and that gets forgotten. He not all tapered off, the forms there we just need to get it out. A singular game off the back of next to no pre-season ain't the best to judge either. All the guys in that boat were turd.
*based on those games if he was an unknown, everyone would have been clamouring to break the bank for him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 1:18:40 GMT
I think we should get rid of him, and Rooney and Valencia. Fuck it put the whole side up for auction then well have enough money to play fantasy football with players from the reject bin.
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Post by ginger18legend on Aug 29, 2012 6:46:53 GMT
About the form, one thing not mentioned - the Euro's. Nani was superb if you caught any of Portugals games. If they'd had a a real goalscorer he would have set up a hatful of goals and he outshone Ronaldo most of the time*. One game back for us and that gets forgotten. He not all tapered off, the forms there we just need to get it out. A singular game off the back of next to no pre-season ain't the best to judge either. All the guys in that boat were turd. *based on those games if he was an unknown, everyone would have been clamouring to break the bank for him. While I agree he was good at the Euros he didn't exactly set them alight. Anyway, that doesn't count for me. I was talking about his form for United over the past season (not just vs Everton). You yourself mentioned that he had more bad games than usual. Bottom line - He is an excellent player on his day. Going back to the root of the argument, I just said I'd include him ahead of Rooney, RVP and Kagawa if he adds more consistency to his game. Don't want to point out his flaws any more. Makes me feel dirty when I take aim at a player who plays (and plays well) for us. |
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Post by kstandhand on Aug 29, 2012 7:09:41 GMT
About the form, one thing not mentioned - the Euro's. Nani was superb if you caught any of Portugals games. If they'd had a a real goalscorer he would have set up a hatful of goals and he outshone Ronaldo most of the time*. One game back for us and that gets forgotten. He not all tapered off, the forms there we just need to get it out. A singular game off the back of next to no pre-season ain't the best to judge either. All the guys in that boat were turd. *based on those games if he was an unknown, everyone would have been clamouring to break the bank for him. While I agree he was good at the Euros he didn't exactly set them alight. Anyway, that doesn't count for me. I was talking about his form for United over the past season (not just vs Everton). You yourself mentioned that he had more bad games than usual. Bottom line - He is an excellent player on his day. Going back to the root of the argument, I just said I'd include him ahead of Rooney, RVP and Kagawa if he adds more consistency to his game. Don't want to point out his flaws any more. Makes me feel dirty when I take aim at a player who plays (and plays well) for us. Anyone who is more consistent than Rooney,RVP & Kagawa is some fuckin player....probably Messi I would think. |
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Post by Dan United on Aug 29, 2012 8:03:27 GMT
Valencia is more consistent than Nani, but Nani in top form is better than Valencia in top form. The problem, as everyone has pointed out, is that Nani has found top form increasingly infrequently in recent times. If we sell him, for the prices being bandied around, then the buying club is going to have one hell of a bargain. If we keep him, he will be a major part of any success we have this season.
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sleel6
United Bench Warmer
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Post by sleel6 on Aug 29, 2012 8:07:58 GMT
Hate to nit pick, but Rooney scored all our 3 goals against Bilbao, there wasn't much more he could do. Our midfield cost us that tie by failing completely against their midfield. This is my problem, Rooney gets away with being poor by his standards, but nobody says anything because he scored goals. Yes, that's a strikers job, but Rooney isn't just our striker, is he? He's supposed to be the talisman, the spark, and the leader in the opposition half. He doesn't give us that in the biggest games (anymore). I think that's what sleel was getting at. It's how I view Rooney anyway. This. Besto, I know you think Rooney's form has decreased over recent years so what do you think to giving him the role on the left wing? More so a free role really ala Ronaldo. I think he could flourish out there and it might bring back some of the flair we used to see in his early days. Also, I think we could still expect 15-20 goals a season from him and probably a fair few assists. |
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Post by Bestie on Aug 29, 2012 9:17:57 GMT
I'm guessing your plan wopuld have RvP up top through the middle. I like that plan. Not a traditional chalk on the boots winger, but the really old school outside forward sort of role.
He would have the options of rotating in and out of either the Kagawa or van Persie positions, to give us fluidity, but playing him out there might force him to rediscover some of his 'lost arts'. Bullishly rinning at defenders, fierce shots from outside the box, getting involved in between right up front and deep in midfield.
EDIT: Wikipedia says this about the outside forward role - The responsibilities of an outside forward include:
- They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.
- They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.
So, Rooney taking vicious pot-shots from around the edges of the box as priority one, very much approve.
Rooney getting assists, very much approve.
Rooney looking to make openings for chances and set up other players to get assists, very much approve.
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No.7
United Bench Warmer
Can they score? man utd always score!plg%%Ryan Giggs %%
Posts: 785
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Post by No.7 on Aug 29, 2012 9:27:35 GMT
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Aug 29, 2012 9:52:36 GMT
When I saw that they rate Valencia and Nani equal in strength it lost validity. |
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Post by ginger18legend on Aug 29, 2012 9:53:35 GMT
When I saw that they rate Valencia and Nani equal in strength it lost validity. And they rate Modric's strength higher  |
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