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Post by johnboy14 on Dec 16, 2012 17:06:59 GMT
Vicky Soto - What a hero. My heart goes out to all the victims' families... what a shame.  The sad part is people will talk more about this idiot than the poor girl that saved so many lives. Thats the sad part about any of these tragedies, they get too much attention. I hope this girl is remembered forever, Not many people would do such a selfless act. Youd be surprised what people do in circumstances like that. Soliders lying on grenades to save there mates. Your right though, the press will dig into this guys past big time but there is a demand from the public as to why anyone would do this. |
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Post by fletcherini on Dec 16, 2012 17:57:48 GMT
Saw this earlier.  "Have you ever wondered what a hero looks like? Well heres one, Vicki Soto age 27 a teacher at Sandy Hook Elementery. When the shooting started she hid her 1st graders in closets and cabinets. When the shooter came to her room there was no place for her to hide, she told him that her kids were in the gym. She was killed but none of her kids were injured. We salute you Ms. Soto, as there is a special place in hell for the monster who did this there is a special place in heaven for you"Such a young, beautiful girls life ended because of one vile bastard. I read this. What a hero she is. The parents of those kids still alive thanks to her will never forget this lady. The planet needs more of these people. I dunno , I agree with john that it is a stupid country. 11000 deaths due to gun violence and they still haven't realised that it is easier to ban guns rather than figuring out who's the next nutjob to gun down a shopping mall? It's a stupid country that has failed to amend a law which is archaic at this point in time. Its a stupid country for thinking that the rest of the world are idiots for banning guns in their country. Its a stupid country that cannot see the direct statistical relationship between banning guns and fewer gun violence victims. If it was just about the politics its fine. But the number of fucking morons coming out and saying its not because of the gun, its because of the man, makes it a stupid country. If his mother didn't have a mini-arsenal in her garage, her deranged child wouldn't have any fucking weapons to choose from to carry out this disaster. Its a stupid country. You just cannot generalise like that. The United States of America is a 'stupid country' because a selection of nutters decide to go out and gun down people, while millions of licenced gun-holders are responsible people, who restrict acess to their arms and keep them safe? It's about access to guns and tightening up the law dramatically. Tatty's just pointed out that 22 kids were stabbed to death in China. So we're now going to label China a 'stupid country' because their laws on the possession of knifes simply doesn't exist? This is China we're talking about, one of the strictest communist countries in the world..!! With respect, saying that certain countries are 'stupid' due to the fact that certain atrocities happen to take place there, is a niave point of view. Bad things happen worldwide. Life is tough. |
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Post by Dan United on Dec 16, 2012 18:03:39 GMT
Can I say something controversial -
I don't think that Vicki Soto is that much of a hero. Hiding the kids is just a natural thing to do. Then when the killer comes, her life doesn't depend on giving the kids up, so why would she say "they're in the closet". He was going to kill her regardless, ratting on the children would have just been a dick move.
Sorry, it's just one of my pet peeves is the mis/over-use of the word hero.
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Post by Dan United on Dec 16, 2012 18:16:48 GMT
On reflection, I was wrong and a bit of line. I focused on the bit where she said the kids were in the gym, as if her main achievement was not ratting on the kids.
But what she did was hide the kids knowing that she wouldn't be able to hide herself. That is 100% heroic and, while I wish most people would do the same, I know not everyone would. I was wrong and I'm happy to admit it.
Well done Ms Soto. You're a credit to humanity and this story, while sad, is a rare glimpse of beauty in an otherwise ugly affair.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 18:36:23 GMT
Its not the country thats stupid, its the laws. Obama has a chance now to gain so much praise by doing something about it, however just because theres a law it doesnt mean it wont be broken. Been reading up about it and for all involved its really sad 2 think about knowing kids of 7 years of age have been subject to that. Also feel for the emergency services dealing with it. It cant be easy clearing it up and dealing with it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 23:12:54 GMT
There's not much Obama can actually do, he can't just implement new laws, he has to have the backing of congress and the house of representitives. As has already been touched on, the redneck gun nuts pretty much run the country, there is no way the law will be changed.
That's the saddest part of all this, the facts that firstly, no one (or at the very least me) was in the slightest bit shocked by it, just put the news on and thought "Oh, another one, and yeah, what a surprise, it's in America" and the fact that no matter how often this keeps happening, the gun laws will not, ever, change and so this kind of thing will continue to happen, again and again and again.
Can't even begin to think how the families of the people involved must be feeling. I consider myself a pretty mentally strong person, but I don't know if I could handle something like this happening to a child of mine.
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Post by Bestie on Dec 16, 2012 23:31:01 GMT
The point it really hit home for me was hearing on the news, 'in the Kindergarten classrooms'. Jesus Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 23:37:11 GMT
Apparently one of the kids was British.
Not that his death is worse than any of the others, but just thinking that this family has emigrated for a better life and a new start and this happens. Christ.
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Post by redcase on Dec 17, 2012 5:09:42 GMT
I read this. What a hero she is. The parents of those kids still alive thanks to her will never forget this lady. The planet needs more of these people. I dunno , I agree with john that it is a stupid country. 11000 deaths due to gun violence and they still haven't realised that it is easier to ban guns rather than figuring out who's the next nutjob to gun down a shopping mall? It's a stupid country that has failed to amend a law which is archaic at this point in time. Its a stupid country for thinking that the rest of the world are idiots for banning guns in their country. Its a stupid country that cannot see the direct statistical relationship between banning guns and fewer gun violence victims. If it was just about the politics its fine. But the number of fucking morons coming out and saying its not because of the gun, its because of the man, makes it a stupid country. If his mother didn't have a mini-arsenal in her garage, her deranged child wouldn't have any fucking weapons to choose from to carry out this disaster. Its a stupid country. You just cannot generalise like that. The United States of America is a 'stupid country' because a selection of nutters decide to go out and gun down people, while millions of licenced gun-holders are responsible people, who restrict acess to their arms and keep them safe? It's about access to guns and tightening up the law dramatically. Tatty's just pointed out that 22 kids were stabbed to death in China. So we're now going to label China a 'stupid country' because their laws on the possession of knifes simply doesn't exist? This is China we're talking about, one of the strictest communist countries in the world..!! With respect, saying that certain countries are 'stupid' due to the fact that certain atrocities happen to take place there, is a niave point of view. Bad things happen worldwide. Life is tough. This is America we're talking about, superpower and all that. Yet the politics prevent any real change in a topic as clear cut as this. It didn't take Britain that long to realise. And its done good ever since. Yes it is a stupid country because its not just a selection of gun nutters anymore. Its not just a few people who are dying. 11,000 deaths due to gun violence a year ! Is that acceptable to you? Is it still okay to say that there are majority of good gun users its only very few that are bad? 11000 deaths a year and its still okay to sell guns without any REAL regulations on the streets? It is a stupid country that allows a civilian access to a bushmaster rapid fire assault rifle. It is a stupid country for not having tightened the laws at least 10 years ago ! Now here we are, 20 kindergarten students riddled with as many as 10 bullets per child. Yet you say I am naive for wanting as many guns off the street as possible. With regard to the knife incident in China, while it is a tragedy again, is not comparable to this. Because regulation of a kitchen knife is tough, seeing as it is in large public demand for, well, using in the kitchen. But regulation of guns on the other hand shouldn't be that tough. Because last I checked guns weren't very good use in vacuuming my carpet. So lets not compare the two. There is no comparison. That was almost an NRA-esque comment. |
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Post by Bestie on Dec 17, 2012 9:17:44 GMT
Bad things happen worldwide. Life is tough. Less bad things happen when crazy people aren't allowed free access to firearms. |
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Post by johnboy14 on Dec 17, 2012 10:51:10 GMT
Bad things happen worldwide. Life is tough. Less bad things happen when crazy people aren't allowed free access to firearms. The argument about self defence is valid but why do people need 50 cal rifles or assault rifles. Are they expecting to pick them off at the picket fence. |
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Post by SAF_Legend on Dec 17, 2012 14:49:39 GMT
I think it is easy to categorise the two cases in China and the US, but they should be viewed differently.
A knife is a daily necessity and essential to everyday life. While a gun, is not. Although China is up and coming economically, they still have a lot of rural and undeveloped land, where access to healthcare or modern facilities can be poor. China's population is also at a staggering 1.4 billion... this means statistically, even if the frequency of such actions may be higher than any other country in the world, this might simply reflect the fact that China is the most populated country in the World (therefore more chance of such events occurring), with equalling landmass to that of the less populated US (300 million).
Also, rather than focusing on the access to weapons, maybe another perspective is to increase studies and knowledge about those that are mentally disturbed - not in a demeaning way, but psychological disorders are not well known to the public and are viewed with little understanding, little sympathy and stigma.
Now, there is only so much we can do about the education of mental issues - essentially they cannot be stopped, but limiting the access to firearms (or other unnecessary weaponry) and making it that tad more difficult can help reduce the frequency of cases. Plus, the stabbing in the recent China case did not have any fatalities, which brings to mind that a melee weapon is obviously less lethal than that of a firearm.
However, considering that firearms are a big industry in the US, I really doubt they will stop. Coupled with the general (generalising) American belief that one should be able to hold weaponry in their homes so they can "protect" themselves (which in itself is a bit silly... if you're able to arm yourself so easily, so can the intruder)... a change will be unlikely.
It is almost akin to asking the British to stop drinking because binge drinking causes obesity and a range of diseases, and doesn't really have any much health benefits to drink at all.
The World's safest countries such as New Zealand, Singapore, have comparatively, a small population and a much smaller landmass with limited access to weaponry, plus, healthcare facilities and education is also rated world-class (higher than that of the US and UK). As we can see, it doesn't only take the banning of weaponry to reduce (note: not stop) such incidents, but also a collative of other issues.
Most of all, I agree with everyone here who states that the people who gave their life up to secure the children's safety are true blue heroes and should be bestowed more limelight. These are the attributes of human kind that should be encouraged. People who have perished should be given more light (with consensus of their relatives) rather than the murderer. People should be mourning for the loss of lives, and not simply just shocked at the what the murderer had achieved. Unfortunately, in history, men always seem to idolise other men who kills the most (i.e. victorious generals), and seldom the perished - "Vae Victis" - woe to the vanquished.
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Post by fletchabey on Dec 17, 2012 18:03:04 GMT
Also another example of safe counties would be Switzerland. There every man owns a rifle but also has the training from National Service. There everything is organised, everyone has them and they have one of lowest gun crime rates around. This actually fits better with the 'right to bear arms' as it was originally intended. Not just the right to have guns freely but the right for civilians to arms themselves if the US was ever threatened.
I just dont see them changing though, its just in the fabric of their society. An attack on guns is an attack on freedom, so no politician would touch it. Combined with the fact some people make a hell of a lot of money from it, even less likely to be changed. so things like this happen again and again. And again.
In regards to Atlantas comment about healthcare/education, actually the UK is ranked 6th in world for Education, just behind Singapore in 5th and ahead of NZ in 8th. USA is way down in 19th, that would be a better way for some to call them a 'stupid country'.
Thats diabolical really, the richest country in the world with such a shoddy education system. To much of their budget goes onto 'Defence'. They spend so much so they actually spend more than the next 19 highest spenders combined. The vast majority of which are also their allies. So for that reason I'd say they are stupid.
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Post by Tatty on Dec 17, 2012 18:11:59 GMT
Maybe there should more of a concentration identifying the signs of mental illness, and ensuring the people get the help they need, whether that means America needs to open more Asylums, I don't know.
At the end of the day, guns don't kill people, idiots do.
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Post by fletchabey on Dec 17, 2012 18:19:32 GMT
Maybe there should more of a concentration identifying the signs of mental illness, and ensuring the people get the help they need, whether that means America needs to open more Asylums, I don't know. At the end of the day, guns don't kill people, idiots do. True but then guns make it a hell of a lot easier, safer and more detached way of killing people. |
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