Barcelona Debate Thread (née Messi HGH)

[johnboy14]

Chelsea were lucky though, messi missing a penalty and the hat full of chances they missed over two legs would suggest so. Milan weren't lucky at all, they were setup perfectly, to condense messi's space and iniesta. They played a perfect game defensively and deserved to win. You don't hear any barcelona players moaning about referees or negative tactics on milans part. They didn't have one chance last night that I thought was a great chance.

[tommyred]

If Barca have a good day you're not beating them. Thought that was obvious?

Chelsea were about as disgustingly lucky as I've ever seen a team be in the Champions League, in both the semi and the final. It's a travesty that they won it.

[jimbonda]

basically yeah. when you are the best team on the planet, or you have the best player on the planet, by a distance in both cases, you need them to be playing below their usual level. barca have both of these and it's a compounding effect. you need them to be slightly off, or you need an improbable set of luck. some people can't swallow it but that's how it is.

[ScholesEvilTwin]

So just because they are the best they are unbeatable unless they decide they can't be bothered that day?

So when we ended Arsenal's unbeaten run it was because they were bored of it?

When Sociedad beat Barca a month ago it was cos Barca let them? Same goes for when Celtic beat them?

[jimbonda]

playing below par does not always equate to 'can't be bothered that day' or 'barca letting them win'

look at them against chelsea. luck aspect aside for a minute. they dominated the possession as you'd expect, more or less played well enough to knock them out. but they had sanchez leading their line, who i don't especially rate, and they seriously missed Villa, who was a key player until that spell out injured. that is a below-par barcelona outfit.

[ScholesEvilTwin]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the Chelsea game?

We were talking about last nights game. And so far the Barca fans here have been loathed to admit they were outplayed and keep making excuses for them.

[Bestie]

Feb 21, 2013 17:06:23 GMT Dan United said:

Allegri would be chuffed to hear you say that Jim. No credit for executing a good game plan after probably weeks of studying Barca's game and extensive work on the training ground.

And as far as you're concerned, his pre-match team talk might as well have been 'finger's crossed lads'. But probably in Italian.

I grinned at this.

@ jim & tom - So every time, as in, every single time, Barcalona lose a game, it's an accident. A fluke. A cosmic fart. A fata anomalia.

Have a break lads, you're not making any sense.

[ScholesEvilTwin]

Feb 21, 2013 18:35:56 GMT jimbonda said:

look at them against chelsea. luck aspect aside for a minute. they dominated the possession as you'd expect, more or less played well enough to knock them out. but they had sanchez leading their line, who i don't especially rate, and they seriously missed Villa, who was a key player until that spell out injured. that is a below-par barcelona outfit.

Using that logic we can look at the 2009 final and say that without Hargreaves, with Ronaldo having most of his focus on winning it on his own due to leaving for Real, with Fletcher suspended, Rio struggling for fitness due to being out for nearly a month United were below par when Barca beat us.

[tommyred]

Bestie I think you're misunderstanding. A team playing below par and the other team winning does not constitute a "fluke", it's just part of football. When a team is as good as Barcelona, you need them to perform below par if you want to beat them, because they have better players and are a better unit than anyone else. Naturally they're not going to be at their imperious best every time. But to capitalise on a Barca off day, you need to be organised, determined and bloody effective yourselves, as Milan were last night. They played it perfectly, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an off day for Barca. A normal Barca off day could have resulted in 0-0, so for Milan to have won 2-0 is a great achievement.

The only "fluke" they've lost is the Chelsea one last year.

[jimbonda]

Feb 21, 2013 18:42:51 GMT ScholesEvilTwin said:

Why does everyone keep bringing up the Chelsea game?

We were talking about last nights game. And so far the Barca fans here have been loathed to admit they were outplayed and keep making excuses for them.

fine, on to last nights game.

barca were relatively poor, milan were good. course i'm not stupid enough to think that some of barca's shiteness had nowt to do with the job milan was doing on them. they frustrated them. but when iniesta comes on and starts mis-hitting passes you can attribute the result somewhat to barca being slightly off.

[Bestie]

Feb 21, 2013 18:55:06 GMT tommyred said:

Bestie I think you're misunderstanding. A team playing below par and the other team winning does not constitute a "fluke", it's just part of football. When a team is as good as Barcelona, you need them to perform below par if you want to beat them, because they have better players and are a better unit than anyone else. Naturally they're not going to be at their imperious best every time. But to capitalise on a Barca off day, you need to be organised, determined and bloody effective yourselves, as Milan were last night. They played it perfectly, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an off day for Barca. A normal Barca off day could have resulted in 0-0, so for Milan to have won 2-0 is a great achievement.

The only "fluke" they've lost is the Chelsea one last year.

The "best" does not have to be having an off day to be out-thought, out-worked. They can be forced off their game, of course, but that is by the hard-work and organisation of their opponents. Saying everybody needs to catch Barcelona 'having a funny one' to beat them is just silly.

As I said earlier, that means that, overall, most teams shouldn't even bother trying against Barcelona. Apparently no matter how well they are drilled and no matter how well they play, Barca will beat them if Barca wake up on the correct side of the bed.

[tommyred]

I think it's a combination of the two.

Let me ask you something, when United lose to "lesser" opposition are you on here saying "fair play, we did everything we could, they were just better than us". No you're not. Because we're better than them, so we have to do something wrong for them to beat us.

I already said I'm in no way trying to discredit Milan, and it was their hard work and organisation (and composure in attack) which turned a slight off day for Barca into a shock 2-0 loss, and very possibly, elimination from the tournament (though I still think Barca can do it).

[Bestie]

Feb 21, 2013 19:01:24 GMT @cavelly2k said:

All of this Barca are unbeatable is beef shit. On our day there isn't a team we can't beat, same goes for all of the big clubs in Europe. Barca are one of the best in the world there is no doubt about that but they aren't untouchable. God forbid me for saying a bad thing about them but some of their tippy tappy football is pointless and just there to add effect. over 50% of their passes are one touch 1-2's where they gain no ground, however when they are attacking some of their football can be sublime. It's down to personal opinion but sometimes I find the tippy tappyness boring to watch. (Yes I said it)

For example the Celtic game, Barca had 955 passes to Celtic's 166. That's makes Barca look good, until you see the scoreboard.

*Hides from the Barca anal brigade because no doubt this will stir it up a little.

[Bestie]

Feb 21, 2013 19:07:24 GMT tommyred said:

I think it's a combination of the two.

Let me ask you something, when United lose to "lesser" opposition are you on here saying "fair play, we did everything we could, they were just better than us". No you're not. Because we're better than them, so we have to do something wrong for them to beat us.

I already said I'm in no way trying to discredit Milan, and it was their hard work and organisation (and composure in attack) which turned a slight off day for Barca into a shock 2-0 loss, and very possibly, elimination from the tournament (though I still think Barca can do it).

Most of the time, no, of course not. But at least sometimes we all hold our hands up and say we were beaten by the better side. 2009 European Cup final comes to mind. If we had lost to say, Southampton a few weeks ago, we couldn't have complained, as they out-played us completely.

The other point to do with that is apparently Milan, or Dortmund, are all so inferior sides that they are equated to "lesser" opposition we face.

You are still saying that A. C. Milan wouldn't have beaten Barcelona if they hadn't been lucky enough to catch Barca having an off day. And that's still just silly. Teams can force bad days. Any team can out-think, out-prepare, and out-organise any other. That's football. No team, is immune to that. Not even the media-beloved Barcelona.

[ScholesEvilTwin]

Barca had 72.5% posession but could do fuck all with it cos Milan knew how to close the space down and stop them playing their usual game.

If you think that's down to Barca having an off day rather than Milan figuring out how to stop them then fine.

But it proves how far you 2 are up Barca's arse.