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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jan 25, 2013 11:58:44 GMT
Hahaha, Bestie, you crack me up. Of course I'm not high, that's just my opinion, silly.
Of course they wouldn't give him the treatment as charity, that would be ludacrous, they're a football club after all and the player they wanted had a condition which, at the time, wasn't being treated. Therefore they got the said player and offered to pay for the treatments which he needed in order to grow normally, i.e. to have any chance of playing competitive football. Even the Barca directors at one stage thought he'd never make it as he was way too small.
But yes, 11-year old, sly Messi knew what the medication (a natural hormone, only considered a drug if miss-used - i.e. Mr. Armstrong) was for (that's obvious) and in the end his elaborate plan to dominate world football paid came together spectacularly well. Seems about right.
In any case, if he was playing for United there wouldn't even be a debate about this, it's pretty sad.
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Post by redom on Jan 25, 2013 12:10:18 GMT
I've no problem whatsoever with Messi having treatment as a child, I certainly don't feel it was part of some master plan by Barca to boost him in some way, it was a necessary procedure to give him the best chance in life and you can't begrudge someone that.
I am interested to know what long term effects the treatment had and whether it accounts for some of his attributes such as his strength and robustness, also his ability to seemingly never be injured but that's just out of curiosity really.
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Post by Bestie on Jan 25, 2013 12:13:02 GMT
Hahaha, Bestie, you crack me up. Of course I'm not high, that's just my opinion, silly.Of course they wouldn't give him the treatment as charity, that would be ludacrous, they're a football club after all and the player they wanted had a condition which, at the time, wasn't being treated. Therefore they got the said player and offered to pay for the treatments which he needed in order to grow normally, i.e. to have any chance of playing competitive football. Even the Barca directors at one stage thought he'd never make it as he was way too small. But yes, 11-year old, sly Messi knew what the medication (a natural hormone, only considered a drug if miss-used - i.e. Mr. Armstrong) was for (that's obvious) and in the end his elaborate plan to dominate world football paid came together spectacularly well. Seems about right. In any case, if he was playing for United there wouldn't even be a debate about this, it's pretty sad. Well we're talking about drugs here, you never know! #eyebrows# I was more referring to the fact that Messi apparently only stopped taking HGH after someone else told FIFA he was taking it. . . |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jan 25, 2013 12:20:24 GMT
Ah, well that's a different story entirely, though the treatment of GHD might require chronic dosages. It would be interesting to know what the stance is with regard to the treatment of a condition that needs to be treated with a hormone that's supposedly illegal to the average player.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 12:22:31 GMT
I've no problem whatsoever with Messi having treatment as a child, I certainly don't feel it was part of some master plan by Barca to boost him in some way, it was a necessary procedure to give him the best chance in life and you can't begrudge someone that. I am interested to know what long term effects the treatment had and whether it accounts for some of his attributes such as his strength and robustness, also his ability to seemingly never be injured but that's just out of curiosity really. This is effictively my whole reason for questioning this. It has to have made a difference. It would be like doing weights everyday but instead of weights you are specifaclly strengthening you muscles to run faster. Kick the ball harder. Messi doesn't have great top speed but he has this little burst of pace & close control that is out of this world. He is physically inferior to Ronaldo in every way, but can play football in a purely unique way. |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jan 25, 2013 12:33:24 GMT
He is physically inferior to Ronaldo in every way, but can play football in a purely unique way. So you obviously don't believe in talent then? If he's quicker out the blocks and strong on his feet it might be his technique and his balance that's superior, it doesn't mean he has to be built like a racehorse. |
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Post by redom on Jan 25, 2013 12:35:26 GMT
I've no problem whatsoever with Messi having treatment as a child, I certainly don't feel it was part of some master plan by Barca to boost him in some way, it was a necessary procedure to give him the best chance in life and you can't begrudge someone that. I am interested to know what long term effects the treatment had and whether it accounts for some of his attributes such as his strength and robustness, also his ability to seemingly never be injured but that's just out of curiosity really. This is effictively my whole reason for questioning this. It has to have made a difference. It would be like doing weights everyday but instead of weights you are specifaclly strengthening you muscles to run faster. Kick the ball harder. Messi doesn't have great top speed but he has this little burst of pace & close control that is out of this world. He is physically inferior to Ronaldo in every way, but can play football in a purely unique way. Even if the treatment has had some effect on the physical attributes he now possesses I wouldn't think any less of him, he wasn't taking these substances with the purpose of giving him a sporting edge like Armstrong did, there were no dark intentions as far as I'm concerned but simply his unique situation that needed specific treatment that then led to a truely unique footballer being developed, it's just an interesting part to his story that I would like to know more about just to see how much effect it had in moulding his physical traits. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jan 25, 2013 12:36:50 GMT
spot on mate. united fans who allow themselves to hate barca cos they win everything (and that is the reason, if you say it isn't then you're either a liar or in denial) should consider the ABUism that's we've all put up with for years...COS WE WERE WINNING EVERYTHING... and vow not to fall into that trap themselves. it's for small timers. if we were also rans for the last 20 years no-one would care and if messi played for United we'd be defending him vehemently to a man. it's hypocrisy I was going to say something here about not telling me and everyone what my own thoughts are, but it isn't even worth it. don't 'even' go there, and don't be so precious old china. it's the way it is, a team wins everything - masses of people hate them. you can talk about the underhand stuff that goes on in the spanish league, but i don't see you whinging about anyone else, and there are worse teams than barca, who finished top of the fair play league i'll remind you. united fans should know better than anyone this principle, ABUism has been rampant in the majority of our lifetimes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 12:38:09 GMT
He is physically inferior to Ronaldo in every way, but can play football in a purely unique way. So you obviously don't believe in talent then? If he's quicker out the blocks and strong on his feet it might be his technique and his balance that's superior, it doesn't mean he has to be built like a racehorse. He obviously had a shit load of talent. That's why Barca invested in a player with a pysical deformity. but for someone with a deformity he sure can jump like a flea while simultaneously dribbling round six defenders, before he chips the keeper from a yard out. |
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Post by SAF_Legend on Jan 25, 2013 12:44:50 GMT
As most know here, in a nutshell - hormones help you grow. This means helping your muscles develop and mature more rapidly. This also means if for example: an average person, takes it - he will be a bit more robust. But this must be a constant intake, otherwise the effects will fade.
Messi's condition is definitely not chronic, since he doesn't require continuous hormonal compensation after his teens - unless I am wrong about this assumption. If it was, then it would be severe, and he would still be undergoing hormone treatments. But what his doctors did do is to give him enough through a period of time when he was young to give him a boost to compensate for the lack of hormones produced in his body while he was a child. The question is How severe this lack of hormones was back then. If the lack is severe, then it could have endangered his life, or cut short his life expectancy due to improper development of certain of his organs.
But since Messi has stop taking it for a long time, I doubt the hormones has any impact on his current top physique. Like many great footballers of the past, and comparatively to Ronaldo, he is just at the apex of his physical prowess. Also, because he is shorter, his center of gravity is low, and he can stay on his feet and move much quicker than say, Peter Crouch or Drogba. Add this with the fact that he actually has the talent, skill and drive... it's not entirely surprising. Plus, Ronaldo rarely gets injured as well. The same can be said for many other players.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jan 25, 2013 12:46:34 GMT
He wasn't deformed though aus, he has a genetic mutation that leads to an inadequately functioning pituitary gland, hence secreting insufficient amounts of HGH (Human Growth Hormone) as a child. It's supposedly not that prominent in adults, explaining why the treatment was stopped.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 12:48:36 GMT
united fans who allow themselves to hate barca cos they win everything (and that is the reason, if you say it isn't then you're either a liar or in denial) or because they're cheating, diving berks. Please do not presume that I am a liar or in denial. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 12:52:14 GMT
As most know here, in a nutshell - hormones help you grow. This means helping your muscles develop and mature more rapidly. This also means if for example: an average person, takes it - he will be a bit more robust. But this must be a constant intake, otherwise the effects will fade. Messi's condition is definitely not chronic, since he doesn't require continuous hormonal compensation after his teens - unless I am wrong about this assumption. If it was, then it would be severe, and he would still be undergoing hormone treatments. But what his doctors did do is to give him enough through a period of time when he was young to give him a boost to compensate for the lack of hormones produced in his body while he was a child. The question is How severe this lack of hormones was back then. If the lack is severe, then it could have endangered his life, or cut short his life expectancy due to improper development of certain of his organs. But since Messi has stop taking it for a long time, I doubt the hormones has any impact on his current top physique. Like many great footballers of the past, and comparatively to Ronaldo, he is just at the apex of his physical prowess. Also, because he is shorter, his center of gravity is low, and he can stay on his feet and move much quicker than say, Peter Crouch or Drogba. Add this with the fact that he actually has the talent, skill and drive... it's not entirely surprising. Plus, Ronaldo rarely gets injured as well. The same can be said for many other players. Just my opinion. Well put. This made a lot of sense to me. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jan 25, 2013 12:52:17 GMT
if you hate every team in the spanish league and almost every player then you're entitled to that opinion carbon. if not, and it's just that you hate barcelona, who are nowhere near the worst team for it, then there's something else going on, and it's because they win everything and they're on a pedestal, and they knocked us out of two finals.
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jan 25, 2013 13:01:48 GMT
Anyone who can't see the connection between the common hatred of Barca and the attitude of the average ABU will eventually get there. You earn that hatred by beating everyone else, and winning everything. Sure you'll have a little help along the way with decisions, creating a minor conspiracy that refs favor you but that happens when everyone wants every decision to go against you.
Just like United have had some hateable characters in the past, so they're going through a patch where they have players like Pedro, Alves, Busquets and Valdez who annoy the living shit out of everyone who watches them.
I dislike Barca, but more because we lost to them in two consecutive finals. That and the fact that they steamroll everyone, it's less exciting and, in essence, every opponent becomes the underdog - who we all support. Makes sense to me at least.
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