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Post by Bestie on Jun 24, 2012 10:25:16 GMT
Seriously mate, either you have something against Cleverley, or you're temporarily football blind. What a ridiculous statement. how the fuck is it ridiculous? i might be right. i'm saying he might never be a fixture in the first team, not that he's a cunt or something i'd like to be wrong, if he ever becomes that player who plays all the time and in the big games i'll be pleased to be wrong. i've never actually written him off and i won't, i just have a doubt or two. i've got nothing against him at all, i think he can be a good player for the club. but from what i've seen so far i can see him being a squad player for the forseeable future. i think he's the most over-hyped player on this forum since i started posting on it. if i didn't know better i'd have thought i'm on an arsenal board talking about one of their young players It's ridiculous because last season proved when he's fit he starts. It's that simple. Unless in his entire career he gets hacked down early in the season a la by the Cunt Davies, he's going to be a important feature for our starting XI. I know this because THE GAFFER HAS SAID AS MUCH. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 10:56:20 GMT
we'll see. would love it if he is good enough to be a fixture in that side and my doubts were wide of the mark.
ok besto if you are in the know then tell me how our midfield is going to line up next season? lets presume clevers doesn't get crocked. with cleverley a fixture in the midfield, who else should be starting regularly and also i'm specifically interested in who loses their place?
and i know you are a fan of the idea of another signing in midfield like everyone else, so i'm interested in how this all fits together
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Post by Bestie on Jun 24, 2012 11:30:17 GMT
Where did I say I'm in the know? If you hear/read Sir Alex Ferguson's comments on Cleverley, it's obvious the manager sees him as a future mainstay, not a bit-part player. As for midfield: Valencia/Nani -- Carrick -- Cleverley -- Young/Nani
Kagwa Easy question. Going on a 50-ish game season (through the European Cup group and half-decent runs in both domestic Cups) Giggs and Park to almost never play, Anderson and Scholes to rotate for about 20/30 with sub games a piece. Fletcher may or may not be coming back but I'm not expecting him to get more than 25 odd appearences as well. Who am I missing? That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. But as it stands, that should be automatic first choice midfield (variables permitting) for basically every match apart from city, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Arsenal and Carling Cup. |
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Post by Raf's Hairdryer Treatment on Jun 24, 2012 11:35:17 GMT
I wouldn't. We would be murdered defensively. I've said this before but, if we keep the ball well in midfield then we don't need to defend as much. We have a potential front 6 that can pass and move brilliantly, which wears the opposition down both physically and mentally. If we press high up the pitch then we give them less time to pick out a decent ball and they end up punting it more. When I saw us dropping deep because we were out played and out passed by fucking Wigan, I damn near shot myself. There'll be teams we can try new ideas with (edit) next season. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 11:39:38 GMT
Where did I say I'm in the know? If you hear/read Sir Alex Ferguson's comments on Cleverley, it's obvious the manager sees him as a future mainstay, not a bit-part player. As for midfield: Valencia/Nani -- Carrick -- Cleverley -- Young/Nani Kagwa Easy question. Going on a 50-ish game season (through the European Cup group and half-decent runs in both domestic Cups) Giggs and Park to almost never play, Anderson and Scholes to rotate for about 20/30 with sub games a piece. Fletcher may or may not be coming back but I'm not expecting him to get more than 25 odd appearences as well. Who am I missing? That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. But as it stands, that should be automatic first choice midfield (variables permitting) for basically every match apart from city, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Arsenal and Carling Cup. three questions then. 1. as it stands, presuming you've not dropped rooney, neither welbeck nor hernandez start football matches regularly. this is the way forwards is it? 2. if the top central midfielder you [and the rest of us] want comes in, who makes way? 3. if powell is shit-hot then what do you do? |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 11:40:10 GMT
Where did I say I'm in the know? he's going to be a important feature for our starting XI. I know this because |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 11:42:43 GMT
That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. ok this answers one of the questions partially. 'less games for cleverley' - you say this after you said my theory that cleverley could be a bit-part player was ridiculous.. also in another thread you touted cleverley to wear our number 7. forget michael owen, should the number 7 shirt be worn by a player who would get 'less games' if another midfielder comes in? i ask because i'm sure you hold the number 7 in the highest regard and see it as a status that whoever wears it is a talisman... playing less games and being a talisman seems to be at odds |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 24, 2012 12:13:23 GMT
Where did I say I'm in the know? he's going to be a important feature for our starting XI. I know this because. . . THE GAFFER HAS SAID AS MUCHDon't be a journo. Use my whole quote. Sir Alex has said a whole bunch of times that Cleverley is more ready than even he and the coaching staff thought to be a starting regular. Also the fact that when he was fit at the start of last season, Cleverley was starting every week is a decent indication of what the Gaffer is thinking. Where did I say I'm in the know? If you hear/read Sir Alex Ferguson's comments on Cleverley, it's obvious the manager sees him as a future mainstay, not a bit-part player. As for midfield: Valencia/Nani -- Carrick -- Cleverley -- Young/Nani Kagwa Easy question. Going on a 50-ish game season (through the European Cup group and half-decent runs in both domestic Cups) Giggs and Park to almost never play, Anderson and Scholes to rotate for about 20/30 with sub games a piece. Fletcher may or may not be coming back but I'm not expecting him to get more than 25 odd appearences as well. Who am I missing? That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. But as it stands, that should be automatic first choice midfield (variables permitting) for basically every match apart from city, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Arsenal and Carling Cup. three questions then. 1. as it stands, presuming you've not dropped rooney, neither welbeck nor hernandez start football matches regularly. this is the way forwards is it? 2. if the top central midfielder you [and the rest of us] want comes in, who makes way? 3. if powell is shit-hot then what do you do? Rooney and Welbeck rotate, with Welbeck and Rooney playing together in games that Kagawa doesn't play - Shinja-Ninja won't play in every single game. Welbeck can also start on the outside of a forward three. e. g. Carrick -- Cleverley
Kagawa
Welbeck --- --- --- --- --- --- Young
Rooney Hernandez doesn't start for me, he's a super-sub and we should maximise his best qualities. I've said it plenty of times before, let Rooney/Welbeck and the supporting cast of swarming midfielders/wingers knacker oppo defenses, then unleash the pace and poacher of Hernandez on them with 25 minutes to go. Especially in games where we are a goal up and the other team has to chase an equaliser, Hernandez could get 20 goals from the bench easily. That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. ok this answers one of the questions partially. 'less games for cleverley' - you say this after you said my theory that cleverley could be a bit-part player was ridiculous.. I think we may be talking about two competely different things now. What is your view on "bit-part"? How many games are we talking about, inc. subs appearences? Also, remember that Carrick is 30. In 2/3 years, Cleverley would take Carrick's spot as starter every week. Particularly as you said "might only ever be a bit-part player for us", your theory is pretty ridic. EDIT: In fact, I'm not sure I wouldn't mind seeing a 30 year old Carrick no playing in a number of games so we can play Cleverley and Kagawa, with a front two of Rooney and Welbeck. Save Carrick for the very biggest games, and also start to get out of the Giggs habit of playing midfielders well into their 30's in the centre of the park for Manchester United. Youth and vibracy, that's what I'm looking for! |
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Post by fletchabey on Jun 24, 2012 12:22:24 GMT
Where did I say I'm in the know? If you hear/read Sir Alex Ferguson's comments on Cleverley, it's obvious the manager sees him as a future mainstay, not a bit-part player. As for midfield: Valencia/Nani -- Carrick -- Cleverley -- Young/Nani Kagwa Easy question. Going on a 50-ish game season (through the European Cup group and half-decent runs in both domestic Cups) Giggs and Park to almost never play, Anderson and Scholes to rotate for about 20/30 with sub games a piece. Fletcher may or may not be coming back but I'm not expecting him to get more than 25 odd appearences as well. Who am I missing? That's all with our current players, if we signed another midfielder then it'll be less games for Cleverley, obviously. But as it stands, that should be automatic first choice midfield (variables permitting) for basically every match apart from city, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Arsenal and Carling Cup. three questions then. 1. as it stands, presuming you've not dropped rooney, neither welbeck nor hernandez start football matches regularly. this is the way forwards is it? 2. if the top central midfielder you [and the rest of us] want comes in, who makes way? 3. if powell is shit-hot then what do you do? Lets not over simplify to much, after we are Man Utd. I remember last summer 1 or 2 (stupid) people say we should sell Evans as we didn't need him. It only take 1 injury and people get a lot more game time than we might think and we do play a lot of games. In a different thread I worked out that even 7 players for 4 attacking spots still works out at ~30 start per player across a season. Rotation and injuries are part and parcel of a season and we should not look at 'making way' as negative thing, we need that depth. Get the players then let them fight it out for the start spots, so to speak. On Powell, lets not get too carried away. Looks talented and has some first team football under his belt, but lets not put the burden of expectation to high, he's only 18 and he's shifting up 3 leagues. If at 18 hes good enough to cause selection head aches in the first team, I'll be to busy fapping over that bit of business to care that someone is dropped  So yeh, basically better to have to many options than not enough. |
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Post by Dan United on Jun 24, 2012 12:23:54 GMT
I'm with Jimbo here. As promising as Cleverly is, he hasn't shown enough for all the hype. If from what you've seen of him in the first team so far is enough for you to think he's going to be a star, it just highlights how starved we've been of world class midfielders in recent years.
That's not to say he won't become a star, but he needs to do more than he already has done. He could just as easily be the next Anderson, who, let's not forget, was just as good, if not better than him at the start of the season.
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Post by Bestie on Jun 24, 2012 12:26:05 GMT
three questions then. 1. as it stands, presuming you've not dropped rooney, neither welbeck nor hernandez start football matches regularly. this is the way forwards is it? 2. if the top central midfielder you [and the rest of us] want comes in, who makes way? 3. if powell is shit-hot then what do you do? Lets not over simplify to much, after we are Man Utd. I remember last summer 1 or 2 (stupid) people say we should sell Evans as we didn't need him. It only take 1 injury and people get a lot more game time than we might think and we do play a lot of games. In a different thread I worked out that even 7 players for 4 attacking spots still works out at ~30 start per player across a season. Rotation and injuries are part and parcel of a season and we should not look at 'making way' as negative thing, we need that depth. Get the players then let them fight it out for the start spots, so to speak. On Powell, lets not get too carried away. Looks talented and has some first team football under his belt, but lets not put the burden of expectation to high, he's only 18 and he's shifting up 3 leagues. If at 18 hes good enough to cause selection head aches in the first team, I'll be to busy fapping over that bit of business to care that someone is dropped So yeh, basically better to have to many options than not enough. Everything that I said, and all of that ^^!!! Excellent point fletch. Including and especially the part about an 18 year old moving from League 1 to the Premier League being good enough to cause talk of displacing a senior United player for well under £10 million. Strength and depth wins Titles! |
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Post by Jayrannasaurus on Jun 24, 2012 12:27:22 GMT
he needs to do more than he already has done. He could just as easily be the next Anderson, who, let's not forget, was just as good, if not better than him at the start of the season. Essentially we all agree with this, there's potential but it's entirely in it's infancy and he needs to step up big time this season. He's looked very good without being spectacular, this could be a big season for him. |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 24, 2012 12:34:06 GMT
I'm with Jimbo here. As promising as Cleverly is, he hasn't shown enough for all the hype. If from what you've seen of him in the first team so far is enough for you to think he's going to be a star, it just highlights how starved we've been of world class midfielders in recent years. That's not to say he won't become a star, but he needs to do more than he already has done. He could just as easily be the next Anderson, who, let's not forget, was just as good, if not better than him at the start of the season. That isn't it though. It's that I've seen him come through the Academy, Reserves, and his loan spells. His time at Watford was where you could tell he was going big. Just looked a class apart. |
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 12:42:34 GMT
besto, you are now saying rooney and welbeck will rotate? are you serious, you think rooney will become a squad player? not a chance. the only times rooney will not play are through injury/suspension/desperate need of a rest.
and you are talking about cleverley taking over full time from carrick...in 2-3 years. so for the next 2-3 years this is a moot point if we are talking about cleverley being a fixture in the side from next season onwards. you said about saving carrick for the big games. does this mean cleverley misses out?
now i know all about injuries, suspensions, and squad rotation...and this fits in with my theory about cleverley AS OF YET only looking like a bit part player to me. because by bit part player i mean a player who is not always first choice when available. there are only x amount of players in our squad of this status, and i don't see cleverley joining them next season
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Post by jimbonda on Jun 24, 2012 12:47:09 GMT
Don't be a journo. Use my whole quote. didn't think it mattered how you know, point was you said you know cleverley is going to be a fixture in the side. hence why i said you are 'in the know'. i'm taking on a lawyer here aren't i...i'll get my coat |
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