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Post by Bestie on Jun 5, 2016 12:12:17 GMT
Not a fucking clue what to vote for. I hate Cameron and Boris, and find it very frustrating that the whole thing has just become a pathetic squabble between the two of them. Hopefully I'll be able to make a proper decision over the next couple of weeks. Everyone I know is still undecided and mainly that's based on the lack of proper information that's been shown on TV and the lack of any real attempt to educate the general public on the benefits and negatives of voting either way. It's just two knobheads scaremongering. No one will tell you the 'proper information' you seek. No one knows. Within the Leave campaign you have at least 3 different visions (Leave but stay in the EEC so freedom of movement stays, Leave and rip up their regulations moving towards the right, Leave and add more regulations moving towards the left). Stay is pretty simple - more of the same. But that isn't always a good thing. You just have to make a decision. Look at the EU and some stats about it and then decide whether you think we'd be better off in or out. I did a politics degree and follow it a lot so if you have any questions drop me a PM if you want. I'm biased to Stay though, I must admit. DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM THIS MAN.   |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:13:26 GMT
So what we've found out is that we're about as capable of putting up a balanced argument as the politicians are.  |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jun 5, 2016 12:14:07 GMT
Stay for me. If we leave I think we'll have a recession (even a lot of Leavers admit this will happen in the short term), and in recessions young workers are the first to be cut. At age 22 having only recently got a job after 6 months I'd be bang in trouble. You can't just think about right now and next year when making this decision though. It has to be a long term view as well. In three years say (after leaving) will you and everybody be better off in a fully independent UK? My view would be yes, much better off and definitely. I would say this - firstly, I think the country will be worse off in the long run anyway. The short term shock would be bad and most economic forecasts suggest we'd be worse off for leaving even as far forward as 2030. Hard to predict much further than then. Secondly, the long term for me personally could be two+ years unemployment which would just totally fuck me for years and years. |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 5, 2016 12:15:34 GMT
Also, the poll is wrong, because leaving the EU doesn't mean we won't be part of Europe anymore, just the way Norway, Russia, Iceland or Switzerland are still part of Europe without being a member of the European Union.
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jun 5, 2016 12:15:42 GMT
No one will tell you the 'proper information' you seek. No one knows. Within the Leave campaign you have at least 3 different visions (Leave but stay in the EEC so freedom of movement stays, Leave and rip up their regulations moving towards the right, Leave and add more regulations moving towards the left). Stay is pretty simple - more of the same. But that isn't always a good thing. You just have to make a decision. Look at the EU and some stats about it and then decide whether you think we'd be better off in or out. I did a politics degree and follow it a lot so if you have any questions drop me a PM if you want. I'm biased to Stay though, I must admit. DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM THIS MAN. Perhaps he could PM both of us to get both sides of the argument. You won't find anyone who is both knowledgable and unbiased at this stage. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jun 5, 2016 12:16:10 GMT
Also, the poll is wrong, because leaving the EU doesn't mean we won't be part of Europe anymore, just the way Norway, Russia, Iceland or Switzerland are still part of Europe without being a member of the European Union. True, but many Leavers would want to get rid of that status too. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jun 5, 2016 12:18:01 GMT
So what we've found out is that we're about as capable of putting up a balanced argument as the politicians are. Its arguably the most divisive issue in UK politics today. It illicits the same reactions that abortions and guns do in the USA. Anyone who knows what they're talking about will have long since taken a side. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:19:36 GMT
www.eureferendum.gov.uk/On Thursday the 23rd of June 2016 the UK will vote either to remain in or leave the European Union. Just to clarify what the poll options are..
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Jun 5, 2016 12:20:36 GMT
www.eureferendum.gov.uk/On Thursday the 23rd of June 2016 the UK will vote either to remain in or leave the European Union. That's the only fact both sides agree on! |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 5, 2016 12:21:12 GMT
You can't just think about right now and next year when making this decision though. It has to be a long term view as well. In three years say (after leaving) will you and everybody be better off in a fully independent UK? My view would be yes, much better off and definitely. I would say this - firstly, I think the country will be worse off in the long run anyway. The short term shock would be bad and most economic forecasts suggest we'd be worse off for leaving even as far forward as 2030. Hard to predict much further than then. Secondly, the long term for me personally could be two+ years unemployment which would just totally fuck me for years and years. Those economic forecasts commissioned by Arch-In campaigner George Osbourne of course. The 'threat' of mass long term unemployment feels like yet another scare tactic thrown about that is likely to be proven incorrect. You said it yourself, nobody really knows. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:21:47 GMT
DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM THIS MAN. Perhaps he could PM both of us to get both sides of the argument. You won't find anyone who is both knowledgable and unbiased at this stage. Or just let it play out in here, don't need any Kool-aid tactics going on  |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 5, 2016 12:22:05 GMT
DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM THIS MAN. Perhaps he could PM both of us to get both sides of the argument. You won't find anyone who is both knowledgable and unbiased at this stage. Nah, just talk about it in here! |
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Post by Bestie on Jun 5, 2016 12:22:24 GMT
Perhaps he could PM both of us to get both sides of the argument. You won't find anyone who is both knowledgable and unbiased at this stage. Or just let it play out in here, don't need any Kool-aid tactics going on Beat me to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:24:22 GMT
Rustin Cohle Pretty sure all those politicians have degrees in Politics, and I don't trust a single one of them. 
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:26:28 GMT
So what we've found out is that we're about as capable of putting up a balanced argument as the politicians are. Its arguably the most divisive issue in UK politics today. It illicits the same reactions that abortions and guns do in the USA. Anyone who knows what they're talking about will have long since taken a side. It is. But surely most people can see benefits and negatives on both sides. I can, which means I won't judge anyone who votes either way and understand people's reasons for wanting to leave/stay. I've been very much stay since the news of the referendum came out. So as far as I'm concerned the leave campaign had to try and convince me to change by giving clear reasons for why leaving will benefit me and the nation long term. They've failed to do this to me. The way I see it. I know how this country works as part of the EU (for the most part, law making aside ). Yeah it's not perfect but it works for me and I'm not sure leaving would. It's very possible it could and maybe it would benefit us all long term but I prefer to not take the risk that things could be better in 20 years. |
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