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Post by Bestie on Dec 21, 2017 14:33:56 GMT
This. And I’m sorry if it seems like sour grapes but the Oil clubs have largely destroyed football. The likes of PSG and City are a cancer to the sport. Very soon we’ll need an NFL style salary cap in order to keep fans interested as the same teams will win league after league and cup after cup. However, an NFL style cap is virtually impossible to agree so football is fucked. It does sound like sour grapes, and it's not that I do not agree that PSG and City contribute to the destruction of the sport. It's that they are "just" another, perhaps bigger-scale, ugly symptom of the commercialization of football. Most of their fans will not give a shit, and I can't blame them. Did we care that TV money has widened the gap between the Premiership and the rest? Do we care that it still does, and will do? Those celebrating Bristol City fans we saw last night will never see their club win a trophy and we feel miserable having missed on the league for 5 years running. Do we care the ugly money machine that the CL is has destroyed national leagues altogether as their best talent took off to the bigger clubs? Once European titans like Ajax, Anderlecht among others have become the equivalent of Championship clubs as long as European competition is concerned. We never cared as long as we were the big fish in the pond feeding on others. I think it's fair to question our motives when our concern for the purity of the sport coincides with our decline. |
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Post by Karma on Dec 21, 2017 14:36:58 GMT
It does sound like sour grapes, and it's not that I do not agree that PSG and City contribute to the destruction of the sport. It's that they are "just" another, perhaps bigger-scale, ugly symptom of the commercialization of football. Most of their fans will not give a shit, and I can't blame them. Did we care that TV money has widened the gap between the Premiership and the rest? Do we care that it still does, and will do? Those celebrating Bristol City fans we saw last night will never see their club win a trophy and we feel miserable having missed on the league for 5 years running. Do we care the ugly money machine that the CL is has destroyed national leagues altogether as their best talent took off to the bigger clubs? Once European titans like Ajax, Anderlecht among others have become the equivalent of Championship clubs as long as European competition is concerned. We never cared as long as we were the big fish in the pond feeding on others. I think it's fair to question our motives when our concern for the purity of the sport coincides with our decline. Except that every single pound we spent was earned, not handed out by Russian or Arab oilmen. Earned by the success of Busby and Fergie, not a chav lottery. 11 points ahead in December with only 1 game drawn. Even when we were flying it was always more competitive and more often than not a much closer race. Plenty of league titles went to the final day. I went to the last game at Wigan in the 2007/08 season when it went to the last day. 2 retaken penalties, a Thunderstorm and a Wigan side who certainly gave us a game. Is that in danger of being lost? Last day seems to be top 4 trophy day now. Had Newcastle and Villa not bottled it against us we certainly wouldn't have had it all our own way. If next season continues like this how long before the penny drops with some of these pundits? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 15:16:54 GMT
Yes, we earned our money, and yes the gap between the rich and poor is widening but I still maintain that we didn't give two shits as long as league titles poured into our trophy room.
My only reservation about the "our money" argument is that mechanisms were created with the help of the big clubs that made sure that English football would be less competitive than it used to be. It's true that good arguments for that new order could be brought up ("our money" and so on...) but the end result undermines the sport nationally. CL has done similarly for European leagues, some of which have become primary producers for the big leagues, losing any hint of competitiveness in the process. Ironically, this has come back to haunt fans of the now privately-owned big clubs like ourselves, as winning the title isn't that important to the money men as finishing forth and guaranteeing CL money the following season. Why invest 100s of millions to finish top when the "franchise" can enjoy CL money by finishing fourth?
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Post by Bestie on Dec 21, 2017 15:19:50 GMT
Yes, we earned our money, and yes the gap between the rich and poor is widening but I still maintain that we didn't give two shits as long as league titles poured into our trophy room. My only reservation about the "our money" argument is that mechanisms were created with the help of the big clubs that made sure that English football would be less competitive than it used to be. It's true that good arguments for that new order could be brought up ("our money" and so on...) but the end result undermines the sport nationally. CL has done similarly for European leagues, some of which have become primary producers for the big leagues, losing any hint of competitiveness in the process. Ironically, this has come back to haunt fans of the now privately-owned big clubs like ourselves, as winning the title isn't that important to the money men as finishing forth and guaranteeing CL money the following season. Why invest 100s of millions to finish top when the "franchise" can enjoy CL money by finishing fourth? What are you on about? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 15:22:48 GMT
The realisation that we may end up with nothing this season is making me very bitter, again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 16:05:12 GMT
Football isn't a sport anymore and hasnt been for some time. Its just a business to make mega rich cash cows even richer.
That's not me being bitter either because were not winning the league. Money has ruined the game and instead of it being about the best team, its going towards who has the biggest pockets.
Players like Sigurdsson and Kyle Walker being worth £50m are prime examples of how ridiculous its become, very rare now will you spend less than 30-40m on a single player, regardless of who they even are. Heard a rumour we're interested in bring back Evans...for £30m.
We've spent over half a bn since Fergie left and were still not getting certain things right. There has been an improvement but its not enough of one as we're still using/signing players that aren't at the level we need to be aiming at.
Best thing Fergie left us with was Dave in goal. God knows where we'd be had he not had him in place when he left.
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Post by RAZ on Dec 21, 2017 16:40:05 GMT
Football isn't a sport anymore and hasnt been for some time. Its just a business to make mega rich cash cows even richer. That's not me being bitter either because were not winning the league. Money has ruined the game and instead of it being about the best team, its going towards who has the biggest pockets. Players like Sigurdsson and Kyle Walker being worth £50m are prime examples of how ridiculous its become, very rare now will you spend less than 30-40m on a single player, regardless of who they even are. Heard a rumour we're interested in bring back Evans...for £30m. We've spent over half a bn since Fergie left and were still not getting certain things right. There has been an improvement but its not enough of one as we're still using/signing players that aren't at the level we need to be aiming at. Best thing Fergie left us with was Dave in goal. God knows where we'd be had he not had him in place when he left. i've lost that "buzz" about football some years ago.dont get me wrong,i still love it and i absolutely love united. but it just doesnt feel the same anymore than it was before. some may not want to hear it but it was nice seeing the bristol fans,players and coaches celebrate last night.some real passion there. players like sigurdsson or walker going for 50m doesnt help the cause but its no surprise when you see a fucking neymar and an 19 year old mbappe going for a combined fee of about 400mil to the same shithole club. the other huge problem about football for me is fifa.that joke of an organisation destroyed this sport and will keep doing so. its all nice and good to have people who fight against fifa and try to bring some of those cunts to prison or convict them but the organisation itself wont change so easy. it starts with stuff as their no to racism campaign and saying a few years later that the problem is solved now. did anyone get into psg for their recent transfers? how come that moron blatter is still running around in zürich as a free man? how come the world cups in russia and quatar havent been changed yet? its not just fifa,its the politics itself and football has become way more politics than it ever should have been allowed to. when it gets to this point of political influence in sports,you'll need to move fucking mountain chains to be able to change it to the better.and that is pretty much impossible |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 16:45:52 GMT
True. FIFA and UEFA are two of the biggest problems. This is why the FFP is a complete joke. The purpose of it isn't fair play, its to easily line the pockets of those in charge. Hence why the only punishment they give are fines.
Fines to these clubs are like peanuts so both sides win. Again another example of how football is ruined by money.
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Dec 21, 2017 16:49:07 GMT
Those fines get distributed amongst the compliant clubs competing in that competition.
We received something like 200k from citys fine recently. As did the other English clubs competing in Europe at the time.
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Post by RAZ on Dec 21, 2017 16:51:48 GMT
Those fines get distributed amongst the compliant clubs competing in that competition. We received something like 200k from citys fine recently. As did the other English clubs competing in Europe at the time. what do you mean? |
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Post by Stew on Dec 21, 2017 16:54:27 GMT
Yes, we earned our money, and yes the gap between the rich and poor is widening but I still maintain that we didn't give two shits as long as league titles poured into our trophy room. My only reservation about the "our money" argument is that mechanisms were created with the help of the big clubs that made sure that English football would be less competitive than it used to be. It's true that good arguments for that new order could be brought up ("our money" and so on...) but the end result undermines the sport nationally. CL has done similarly for European leagues, some of which have become primary producers for the big leagues, losing any hint of competitiveness in the process. Ironically, this has come back to haunt fans of the now privately-owned big clubs like ourselves, as winning the title isn't that important to the money men as finishing forth and guaranteeing CL money the following season. Why invest 100s of millions to finish top when the "franchise" can enjoy CL money by finishing fourth? Why would we have given a shit? Those titles were never bought, they were earned. Utd were a huge side and were in a position to capitalise on the money being pumped into the game by Murdoch because the club was successful. The sponsorships, the gate receipts, the prize money was all clean. Built on the success that Busby brought, the huge fan base earned worldwide because of the romantic nature of the babes and the re-birth with Best, Law and Charlton. Which was carried on by Fergie through spending and an infusion of youth. If anything Utd made things even more interesting by not spending as they should have (again, spending their own money, not some suger daddy’s). Jim White hit the nail on the head by saying if you wanted to see the effect the Glazer’s had on Utd then look at Bayern. That should have been Utd and the English league. Surprised to have to point this out to a Utd fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 16:58:52 GMT
Those fines get distributed amongst the compliant clubs competing in that competition. We received something like 200k from citys fine recently. As did the other English clubs competing in Europe at the time. Do they? Didn't know that part. In that case I stand corrected  They're still leeching cunts though. |
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Post by ScholesEvilTwin on Dec 21, 2017 17:03:48 GMT
Those fines get distributed amongst the compliant clubs competing in that competition. We received something like 200k from citys fine recently. As did the other English clubs competing in Europe at the time. what do you mean? When city, psg & Zenit all got fined (Was probably a couple years ago now actually) the fines were distributed amongst the teams in the european comps. We got something like 200k. As did arsenal, chelsea, swansea (i think) and a couple other english clubs. Along with all the other teams competing in those comps that season. |
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Post by thesheepdog on Dec 21, 2017 17:07:45 GMT
Where do I start, didn't see the match and kind of glad city fans in pub taking the piss and I lost my shit. As a club we need to keep improving as I don't want to end up being bitter reds. We have to be positive , even though we have been on a downward curve after Fergie we have still won trophies so it's unlikely city will ever be producing a 35 years T shirt.
We have spent poorly since Fergie left and Moyes getting rid of the backroom staff ripped the guts out of the club.
But Jose knows how to win and let's face it his purchases in the majority have improved us. We have to keep faith in him
We do have to start bossing the transfer market again and get the squad strong enough so we can go back to the days of adding just one top drawer player and a couple of squad players every summer
Stop spending 30 million on a good player spend 50-60 on the real deal. Can we also go back to buying some proven English players
We can't stop city this year but they will still hopefully get fucked by someone in the champions league
Support Jose , buy well and ship out the shit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 20:57:48 GMT
This has been bought up several times over the past 10 years or so. Pretty sure it can't be done at all due to EU laws/regulations. After Brexit it might be a different story. Yep. No chance of it happening under EU law. I'm interested in why considering some of the European nations are pretty socialised I would have thought some sort of award pay would be right up their alley. I find it weird that the U.S goes to salary caps as well because they are ultra capitalist and are all for individual contracts. We have a wage cap here in Aus but in a lot of industries that's how we work anyway. Get paid the industry rate. |
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