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Post by Karma on Nov 12, 2018 8:42:36 GMT
You trust dear leader to get the next one right? I admire your optimism! Are you suggesting sticking with Jose until we have a new ownership? Perhaps a fan poll to choose the next manager?
Ed didn't lose us the derby just like he didn't score the winner on Wednesday. Argue what you like about the state of the club but Jose should be judged on how well he uses his squad, and whether he gets the best out of his players. By saying his players I refer mostly to those he purchased for tons of money.
Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money these players cost? Failures or not. Had these owners not been penny pinching from the minute they arrived we wouldn't have had to throw silly money around in the first place. Why do you think they were so keen to hire Moyes? They thought he could work on a budget. No owners with ambition on the football side of things would have touched him with a shitty stick. The penny finally dropped when he turned out to be a disaster and they had no choice but to dig deep. In the summer the talk was the owners thought the squad was good enough for top 4. That's their ambition, anything else is a bonus. I don't see any other manager being held to account for poor signings in the way ours does. As has been said many times Jose gets the boot if he doesn't get top 4, so it doesn't matter one jot whether anyone wants him to stay or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 8:44:07 GMT
He's far from the only one to blame, I think everyone would agree to that. Question is can he improve us? It would also be weird to start changing the standard to suit Mourinho for some reason. He's shown he always struggle about 3 years in but he gets given more leeway than our previous two managers. Van Gaal was boring but finished fourth and 1 point off 4th with an FA cup. That's starting to look pretty good.Jose isn't doing a very good job, but I wouldn't go that far. LVG signed some serious mediocrity. Fuck that, he got beat 4-0 at MK Dons ffs. He didn't do well enough but we were actually dropping down the table to get to those positions as well. He only had 1 trophy to Jose's two but the squad wasn't as good. I don't think we've been as bad as this since the 80's. In hindsight there's not a lot between them. I think Jose gets off easy because people are now tireing of the whole thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 8:46:17 GMT
With a youth team. We lost to Bristol City with our full potential. 36 Marnick Vermijl 6 Jonny Evans (c)38 Michael Keane 41 Reece James 51' 37 Saidy Janko 46' 28 Anderson26 Shinji Kagawa 20'22 Nick Powell 57'19 Danny Welbeck
14 Javier Hernández
Not an inspiring line up but hardly a youth team. Anyway, MK Dons was just one example of the good old LVG days. Of course Jose's tenure is littered with shit displays too, but he won more trophies in his first season than LVG ever did for us.
That's youthful. |
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Post by Karma on Nov 12, 2018 8:49:17 GMT
I liked Van Gaal but seriously anyone comparing his football to what we have now must be watching something different to me.
All those nil nils at half time at Old Trafford. When you conceded that was it, no coming back from it. His signings were generally rank.
Moyes was an abomination!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 8:54:08 GMT
Besides all that, there is just one person in the whole world whose fault it was today. Carbs, for not letting me start the match thread.  |
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Post by Tatty on Nov 12, 2018 9:28:47 GMT
This was the worst thing that could've happened pre-International Break.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:29:52 GMT
1 David De Gea36 Marnick Vermijl 6 Jonny Evans (c)38 Michael Keane 41 Reece James 51' 37 Saidy Janko 46' 28 Anderson26 Shinji Kagawa 20'22 Nick Powell 57'19 Danny Welbeck
14 Javier Hernández
Not an inspiring line up but hardly a youth team. Anyway, MK Dons was just one example of the good old LVG days. Of course Jose's tenure is littered with shit displays too, but he won more trophies in his first season than LVG ever did for us.
That's youthful. That was MK Dons |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:31:04 GMT
I liked Van Gaal but seriously anyone comparing his football to what we have now must be watching something different to me. All those nil nils at half time at Old Trafford. When you conceded that was it, no coming back from it. His signings were generally rank. Moyes was an abomination! I'm not comparing his football, I'm comparing results. I pointed out that his football wasn't good at the start but sometimes i wonder if you only see what you want to. Under Van Gaal did we finish lower than 5th? No. Mourinho has been lower than that once and probably will again this season. It's like comparing two piles of shit. |
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Nov 12, 2018 9:31:35 GMT
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Nov 12, 2018 9:37:39 GMT
You fucking could have if you'd started with Fred you pillock!
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Post by Karma on Nov 12, 2018 9:43:07 GMT
I liked Van Gaal but seriously anyone comparing his football to what we have now must be watching something different to me. All those nil nils at half time at Old Trafford. When you conceded that was it, no coming back from it. His signings were generally rank. Moyes was an abomination! I'm not comparing his football, I'm comparing results. I pointed out that his football wasn't good at the start but sometimes i wonder if you only see what you want to. Under Van Gaal did we finish lower than 5th? No. Mourinho has been lower than that once and probably will again this season. It's like comparing two piles of shit. There is more of a level playing field now with the TV money than there was then. Look at Arsenal, new manager, playing some half decent football and 5th. As I said there's no comparison between Van Gaal and Jose imo. When we were 2nd last season everyone moaned. We have only had one league game where we haven't scored. Our defence is the pits though. But we have to make do because Woodward said so. |
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Post by Karma on Nov 12, 2018 9:45:11 GMT
You fucking could have if you'd started with Fred you pillock! Yeah as if Fred would have made a difference! We are light years away from City with or without Jose. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:47:01 GMT
Are you suggesting sticking with Jose until we have a new ownership? Perhaps a fan poll to choose the next manager?
Ed didn't lose us the derby just like he didn't score the winner on Wednesday. Argue what you like about the state of the club but Jose should be judged on how well he uses his squad, and whether he gets the best out of his players. By saying his players I refer mostly to those he purchased for tons of money.
Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money these players cost? Failures or not. Had these owners not been penny pinching from the minute they arrived we wouldn't have had to throw silly money around in the first place. Why do you think they were so keen to hire Moyes? They thought he could work on a budget. No owners with ambition on the football side of things would have touched him with a shitty stick. The penny finally dropped when he turned out to be a disaster and they had no choice but to dig deep. In the summer the talk was the owners thought the squad was good enough for top 4. That's their ambition, anything else is a bonus. I don't see any other manager being held to account for poor signings in the way ours does. As has been said many times Jose gets the boot if he doesn't get top 4, so it doesn't matter one jot whether anyone wants him to stay or not. People are not ""obsessed" with how much the players cost. They just can't accept Jose's argument (well, not only his...) that money was not made available. It's fucking obvious that we didn't spend enough in SAF's last years here and the squad had aged but how can we moan about the summer when the manager doesn't use the players he himself signed. For hundreds of millions. Is this an "obsession" or a valid argument? We had a wank midfield yesterday but Jose signed one of them, extended the contract of another (don't blame Ed for that one) and had two others on the bench and in the stands. That's 200 million Jose spent on that set alone, which with Herrera, Perreira, Lingard and Mata should be enough to assemble a midfield that would not cede dominance against any above-average opposition.
Up front we have Tony and Rashford. Jose added Sanchez and Lukaku. Is it Ed's fault that we look wank up front, or would you expect better from those 4 under another manager? Perhaps the latter were poor signings? Were they signed against Jose's wishes?
We've covered the back 4 issue enough. Jose added two CBs and now a RB. We could do with improvement there, but what have right now was the second best defense for two seasons running. That panic we see at the start of every game has little to do with new signings.
Finally, this is a United forum so i don't mind if other managers are not being held to account for bad signings. When we discuss Jose's excuses for poor performances we have every right to be critical and say amen to his moaning. We also have a right to ignore arguments to the tune of "In the summer the talk was..." which for me means we haven't a clue what was going on
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Post by Rustin Cohle on Nov 12, 2018 9:50:41 GMT
You fucking could have if you'd started with Fred you pillock! Yeah as if Fred would have made a difference! We are light years away from City with or without Jose. Not saying Fred would have won us the game. I'm saying if he started then Jose would have been able to bring a fresh Fellaini off the bench at the 70 minute mark. And I don't think Fred would have played any worse than Fellaini did yesterday in the first 70 minutes either. |
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Post by Karma on Nov 12, 2018 9:53:14 GMT
Why is everyone so obsessed with how much money these players cost? Failures or not. Had these owners not been penny pinching from the minute they arrived we wouldn't have had to throw silly money around in the first place. Why do you think they were so keen to hire Moyes? They thought he could work on a budget. No owners with ambition on the football side of things would have touched him with a shitty stick. The penny finally dropped when he turned out to be a disaster and they had no choice but to dig deep. In the summer the talk was the owners thought the squad was good enough for top 4. That's their ambition, anything else is a bonus. I don't see any other manager being held to account for poor signings in the way ours does. As has been said many times Jose gets the boot if he doesn't get top 4, so it doesn't matter one jot whether anyone wants him to stay or not. People are not ""obsessed" with how much the players cost. They just can't accept Jose's argument (well, not only his...) that money was not made available. It's fucking obvious that we didn't spend enough in SAF's last years here and the squad had aged but how can we moan about the summer when the manager doesn't use the players he himself signed. For hundreds of millions. Is this an "obsession" or a valid argument? We had a wank midfield yesterday but Jose signed one of them, extended the contract of another (don't blame Ed for that one) and had two others on the bench and in the stands. That's 200 million Jose spent on that set alone, which with Herrera, Perreira, Lingard and Mata should be enough to assemble a midfield that would not cede dominance against any above-average opposition.
Up front we have Tony and Rashford. Jose added Sanchez and Lukaku. Is it Ed's fault that we look wank up front, or would you expect better from those 4 under another manager? Perhaps the latter were poor signings? Were they signed against Jose's wishes?
We've covered the back 4 issue enough. Jose added two CBs and now a RB. We could do with improvement there, but what have right now was the second best defense for two seasons running. That panic we see at the start of every game has little to do with new signings.
Finally, this is a United forum so i don't mind if other managers are not being held to account for bad signings. When we discuss Jose's excuses for poor performances we have every right to be critical and say amen to his moaning. We also have a right to ignore arguments to the tune of "In the summer the talk was..." which for me means we haven't a clue what was going on
That new right back has been injured for most of his time here. Perreria seems to be getting Scholes like status the longer he doesnt play. Lingard is an impact sub . Rashford isn't anywhere near the level we need to justify starting every game. Herrera imo is a decent squad player. So that's Mata and Martial out of that list who should be starting. |
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