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Post by juanveron on Dec 4, 2018 19:31:01 GMT
RE: our next manager: We went for a mid table manager who had showed little sign of being able to step up. It was a complete disaster. We then went for two managers who have better CVs than basically any other manager on earth bar two or three others. Neither a disaster like Moyes, but not good either. There has to be a middle way. A manager that has achieved (whether through winning trophies or just punching well above their weight at a club) but probably has their best days ahead of them. Both Jose and LVG had wonderful CVs, but they were both past their best - and, if we're being honest, the signs were already there that they were on the way down. We need to look beyond just trophies. Most of the managers with a CV like Jose or LVG - on the list above only Ancelotti's stands out as being on that level (Zidane's is amazing so far but too short a time as a manager to be on quite the same level as Jose IMO) - are also arguably past their best. More important than a bulging trophy cabinet IMO is being at the cutting edge of tactical developments, a proven commitment to attacking football and clear evidence of improving players, all in the recent past.I totally agree. The failures of Louis and Jose showed that past CV isn't enough, our focus must be on candidates with their careers on the up, not on individuals who are clinging on past glory to justify bad results. |
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Post by JamBritRed on Dec 4, 2018 20:37:24 GMT
RE: our next manager: We went for a mid table manager who had showed little sign of being able to step up. It was a complete disaster. We then went for two managers who have better CVs than basically any other manager on earth bar two or three others. Neither a disaster like Moyes, but not good either. There has to be a middle way. A manager that has achieved (whether through winning trophies or just punching well above their weight at a club) but probably has their best days ahead of them. Both Jose and LVG had wonderful CVs, but they were both past their best - and, if we're being honest, the signs were already there that they were on the way down. We need to look beyond just trophies. Most of the managers with a CV like Jose or LVG - on the list above only Ancelotti's stands out as being on that level (Zidane's is amazing so far but too short a time as a manager to be on quite the same level as Jose IMO) - are also arguably past their best. More important than a bulging trophy cabinet IMO is being at the cutting edge of tactical developments, a proven commitment to attacking football and clear evidence of improving players, all in the recent past. riiight, though i love your post and agree with it wholeheartedly, remember who the decision rests with....  does that look like a face you can trust to do anything competent with regards to football? |
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Post by aussiegraham on Dec 5, 2018 2:13:30 GMT
Mike Bassett could do a better job than the current joker.
Come to think of it, so could Ricky Tomlinson!
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Post by Ole's Red Whiteknight03 Army on Dec 5, 2018 5:02:54 GMT
The last time we hired a mid table manager who ‘punched above his weight’ the 11 points champions became a mid table club within 7 months. Does nobody remember this??? Reading this thread, it appears like people are happy to become Martin O’Neil’s Villa or Spurs FFS. We are Manchester United. We need a manager who can return us to our rightful place at the top of English football, not someone who can play some decent stuff under no pressure to win anything. Ever.
Imagine the first time Eddie Howe tells Pogba something he doesn’t want to hear. Who is Woodward going to back?
We need a DoF who is allowed the freedom/given the responsibility to build the football side into the embodiment of the Manchester United way. The manager becomes a vehicle to make this happen on the pitch, and any players/staff who don’t fit this style are replaced with those who do. In essence the DoF becomes the top man/woman at the club. Right now commercial interests and the ego of players run this club. Appointing a hit and hope manager with no pedigree is only going to make that worse.
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Post by Ole's Red Whiteknight03 Army on Dec 5, 2018 5:06:29 GMT
RE: our next manager: We went for a mid table manager who had showed little sign of being able to step up. It was a complete disaster. We then went for two managers who have better CVs than basically any other manager on earth bar two or three others. Neither a disaster like Moyes, but not good either. There has to be a middle way. A manager that has achieved (whether through winning trophies or just punching well above their weight at a club) but probably has their best days ahead of them. Both Jose and LVG had wonderful CVs, but they were both past their best - and, if we're being honest, the signs were already there that they were on the way down. We need to look beyond just trophies. Most of the managers with a CV like Jose or LVG - on the list above only Ancelotti's stands out as being on that level (Zidane's is amazing so far but too short a time as a manager to be on quite the same level as Jose IMO) - are also arguably past their best. More important than a bulging trophy cabinet IMO is being at the cutting edge of tactical developments, a proven commitment to attacking football and clear evidence of improving players, all in the recent past.I totally agree. The failures of Louis and Jose showed that past CV isn't enough, our focus must be on candidates with their careers on the up, not on individuals who are clinging on past glory to justify bad results. Conversely, it shows the damage caused by Moyes and Woodward is not going to be easily fixed. Don’t forget we were all hopeful that a manager with LvG/Jose’s pedigree could put Woodward in his place and the club would be run by a football man who knows his stuff. The possibility does exist that we could’ve gone from Moyes to another mid table manager who would’ve continued the slide/tumble down the table instead of winning a few trophies. |
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Post by ratbag on Dec 5, 2018 6:54:37 GMT
I totally agree. The failures of Louis and Jose showed that past CV isn't enough, our focus must be on candidates with their careers on the up, not on individuals who are clinging on past glory to justify bad results. Conversely, it shows the damage caused by Moyes and Woodward is not going to be easily fixed. Don’t forget we were all hopeful that a manager with LvG/Jose’s pedigree could put Woodward in his place and the club would be run by a football man who knows his stuff. The possibility does exist that we could’ve gone from Moyes to another mid table manager who would’ve continued the slide/tumble down the table instead of winning a few trophies. The problem is, going for the big name hasn't worked either...so we have a dilemma...the mid table - punching above his weight didn't work nor did the great CV won loads of stuff manager... I feel that either Poch or Howe could be a good fit for us... By the way, just check this morning's league table...Bournemouth are above us - again...I don't feel that Howe has the same inferiority complex that Moyes has ans evidenced by their decent performance against Citeh...OK, they lost but they played a lot better than we did... |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Dec 5, 2018 7:09:42 GMT
Jardim is everything Poch is with trophys to show. Would love to have him at United.
I was reading his wiki , he created a winning culture in every single club he managed.
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Post by juanveron on Dec 5, 2018 7:11:41 GMT
Reality is Howe isn't going to be our next manager, not before he proves himself on a much higher level. Only 2 clubs in world football can hire a manager like him and stay insanely competitive - Barcelona and Real, and even for them it often fails (the difference is? They sack the sad bastard after 2 months). I wish we were capable of hiring someone like him and be highly competitive, that would mean that our squad is at the highest possible level and that we have incredible football people making key decisions, so even if he struggles he's not going to fail as miserably as Moyes did.
As Rustin put it very well, the 3 things that we must look at with our next coach are a recent proven success at improving players, demonstrated commitment to playing attacking football and having the tactical ingenuity to stay ahead of the curve (as in, not another yesterday's man). When I said that we should go for someone with his career on the up, I meant that we should look for someone with his best footballing days ahead of him (something that can't be said about either Jose or Louis), this doesn't necessarily mean going for a midtable coach - this could easily be someone with Zidane's profile, although I highly doubt he'll be interested.
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Post by caino on Dec 5, 2018 7:20:47 GMT
The last time we hired a mid table manager who ‘punched above his weight’ the 11 points champions became a mid table club within 7 months. Does nobody remember this??? Reading this thread, it appears like people are happy to become Martin O’Neil’s Villa or Spurs FFS. We are Manchester United. We need a manager who can return us to our rightful place at the top of English football, not someone who can play some decent stuff under no pressure to win anything. Ever. Imagine the first time Eddie Howe tells Pogba something he doesn’t want to hear. Who is Woodward going to back? We need a DoF who is allowed the freedom/given the responsibility to build the football side into the embodiment of the Manchester United way. The manager becomes a vehicle to make this happen on the pitch, and any players/staff who don’t fit this style are replaced with those who do. In essence the DoF becomes the top man/woman at the club. Right now commercial interests and the ego of players run this club. Appointing a hit and hope manager with no pedigree is only going to make that worse. Jardim is everything Poch is with trophys to show. Would love to have him at United. I was reading his wiki , he created a winning culture in every single club he managed. but you know what we should do with players who don't want to listen to their manager? get rid. theyre bad apples. if a manager is making big calls that players don't like and its for the good of the team then good on him and that's what we need. if were winning games and competing again it doesn't matter if some players don't like being dropped or whatever. probably the only candidate out there that's suitable. many fans were split on Sarri, many fans were split on Emery, not many fans wanted poch before he went to Spurs. now were sinking with a miserable old sod |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 7:55:01 GMT
The last time we hired a mid table manager who ‘punched above his weight’ the 11 points champions became a mid table club within 7 months. Does nobody remember this??? Reading this thread, it appears like people are happy to become Martin O’Neil’s Villa or Spurs FFS. We are Manchester United. We need a manager who can return us to our rightful place at the top of English football, not someone who can play some decent stuff under no pressure to win anything. Ever. Imagine the first time Eddie Howe tells Pogba something he doesn’t want to hear. Who is Woodward going to back? We need a DoF who is allowed the freedom/given the responsibility to build the football side into the embodiment of the Manchester United way. The manager becomes a vehicle to make this happen on the pitch, and any players/staff who don’t fit this style are replaced with those who do. In essence the DoF becomes the top man/woman at the club. Right now commercial interests and the ego of players run this club. Appointing a hit and hope manager with no pedigree is only going to make that worse. You've offered no example of how we would get back to the top. The people who are open to Howe (no one is really advocating) are suggesting that he would fit in to a plan and have one himself because he clearly does where he is now. Your post smells of throwing money at more Mourinho's, Pogbas and Sanchez's whether you meant it or not. I've had enough of those types at our club. Who is this manager who could magically return us to former glories and how would he do it? |
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Post by . on Dec 5, 2018 8:17:35 GMT
Mike Bassett could do a better job than the current joker. Come to think of it, so could Ricky Tomlinson! Post of the week! ^ 😂 |
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Post by alwaysUnited on Dec 5, 2018 8:18:39 GMT
but you know what we should do with players who don't want to listen to their manager? get rid. theyre bad apples. if a manager is making big calls that players don't like and its for the good of the team then good on him and that's what we need. if were winning games and competing again it doesn't matter if some players don't like being dropped or whatever. probably the only candidate out there that's suitable. many fans were split on Sarri, many fans were split on Emery, not many fans wanted poch before he went to Spurs. now were sinking with a miserable old sod I agree with the idea of backing the manager's vision but it has to be a positive vision. The problem with Jose is its often a short term one , if he had his way martial would have gone to be replaced by perisic. He prefers the matics , fellainis ,perisics kind of players over the more attacking ones. As we can see with matic he had one good season with us and now his legs are gone. |
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Post by Karma on Dec 5, 2018 8:29:41 GMT
The last time we hired a mid table manager who ‘punched above his weight’ the 11 points champions became a mid table club within 7 months. Does nobody remember this??? Reading this thread, it appears like people are happy to become Martin O’Neil’s Villa or Spurs FFS. We are Manchester United. We need a manager who can return us to our rightful place at the top of English football, not someone who can play some decent stuff under no pressure to win anything. Ever. Imagine the first time Eddie Howe tells Pogba something he doesn’t want to hear. Who is Woodward going to back? We need a DoF who is allowed the freedom/given the responsibility to build the football side into the embodiment of the Manchester United way. The manager becomes a vehicle to make this happen on the pitch, and any players/staff who don’t fit this style are replaced with those who do. In essence the DoF becomes the top man/woman at the club. Right now commercial interests and the ego of players run this club. Appointing a hit and hope manager with no pedigree is only going to make that worse. Yeah it's like we have the Glazer equivalent of making the same mistakes over and over again. Poch happened because his boss shows a degree of football nouse. Appointing a rookie under football's equivalent of the Kardashians would be mental. |
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Post by Tatty on Dec 5, 2018 8:31:21 GMT
Mike Bassett could do a better job than the current joker. Come to think of it, so could Ricky Tomlinson! We already have too many Scousers in positions of power at this club as it is. |
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Post by caino on Dec 5, 2018 11:25:19 GMT
but you know what we should do with players who don't want to listen to their manager? get rid. theyre bad apples. if a manager is making big calls that players don't like and its for the good of the team then good on him and that's what we need. if were winning games and competing again it doesn't matter if some players don't like being dropped or whatever. probably the only candidate out there that's suitable. many fans were split on Sarri, many fans were split on Emery, not many fans wanted poch before he went to Spurs. now were sinking with a miserable old sod . The problem with Jose is its often a short term one , if he had his way martial would have gone to be replaced by perisic. He prefers the matics , fellainis ,perisics kind of players over the more attacking ones. As we can see with matic he had one good season with us and now his legs are gone. completely agree. and whatever manager we get has to have a plan and vision and Howe could be that man. if he can give us fans and the club what they want, players can get on board or they can go. Fergie took no shit of big ego and I fully respect managers that deal with it in the correct way. not like jose has. I believe Howe can do it. for me its him or Jardim as I cant see who else is suitable and available right now |
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