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Post by ratbag on Feb 8, 2021 9:09:42 GMT
Look, we are second in the league right now but IMO, that has more to do with the failings of other teams than the brilliance of United...
Ole's signings with one huge exception have not been particularly stellar...as Karma says...he apparently approved the signing of two players who don't get a sniff but he persists with a 'captain' who regularly stinks the place out...
Ighalo and Cavani were both shots in the dark...Ighalo had a very brief half decent spell and Cavani is working out well but don't try and tell me that Cavani was in the plans all along...
The only reason that we are not mid-table is down to one player - who we almost passed on...
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good...it's wonderful if you can be both...
Because when your luck runs out, you had better have a plan B...
I love Ole to bits as a player but I don't think he has ever had a plan B...
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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 9:12:29 GMT
Can't believe some of the posts in here comparing proven PL title winners(Jose, Klopp,Ancelotti) to Ole using probably the weakest season in recent memory as a base. Also are they forgetting our stellar Injury record this season?  ? I don't remember us having to go through a period without our best players like most of the Rival managers Ole has "out Managed". Other teams have literally had to be shit for us to be anywhere near as good as our position on the table makes us look And even then we couldn't capitalise on it. Jose was here, and the proven title winner didn't get us any closer to winning the league.
This isn't the weakest season in recent memory, but the weirdest and perhaps the toughest in some respects. We didn't even start it on a level playing field, having a lunch break for a pre-season and then having to play every three days. Ole has been better than Jose in the transfer market (both ins and outs), his United plays better football, the squad building process (albeit slower than we 'd have liked) is more promising and he is having us second in the league right now, an achievement Jose famously described as one of his biggest in his managerial career. You are welcome to search the board for title talk in February. It's absolute madness that this counts for very little considering where we are at the moment compared to those 6-7 years we have had to root for City this time of the year.
Drivel. He's signed about 7 or 8 players out of which only Bruno has been truly impactful for us while the rest barring Cavani and AWB have been largely shite or unused to form an opinion. And now he plays Bruno every game and runs him into the ground and has piled all his chips on literally this one player to get him through. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 9:26:53 GMT
Jose was here, and the proven title winner didn't get us any closer to winning the league.
This isn't the weakest season in recent memory, but the weirdest and perhaps the toughest in some respects. We didn't even start it on a level playing field, having a lunch break for a pre-season and then having to play every three days. Ole has been better than Jose in the transfer market (both ins and outs), his United plays better football, the squad building process (albeit slower than we 'd have liked) is more promising and he is having us second in the league right now, an achievement Jose famously described as one of his biggest in his managerial career. You are welcome to search the board for title talk in February. It's absolute madness that this counts for very little considering where we are at the moment compared to those 6-7 years we have had to root for City this time of the year.
 1. We haven't finished second yet. 2. Mourinho actually finished second, with a worse squad and a better League. 3. Redcafe - Google it and sign up there. You'll fit right in. A worse squad? So an absolute novice has been better at assembling a squad compared to that serial winner who managed to get us second and fill the squad with expensive dross, just like his predecessor. That manager no one would want has also been successful at transforming the Shaw and Fred that poor Jose had misfiring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 9:29:06 GMT
I was thinking the same. Who the actual fuck was clamoring for Maguire ?? Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. |
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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 9:43:33 GMT
I was thinking the same. Who the actual fuck was clamoring for Maguire ?? Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. You are deliberately omitting the very clear fact that the abuse Ed got was for getting Maguire for 90 million whereas Jose asked for him when the going rate was 50 - before the Euros. I'll assume that you forgot about that, otherwise it is supremely disingenuous to bring that bit up. If we got this version of Maguire for 50 million the blow would be far lesser than what it is now, considering that we got fucking fleeced. Also, it proves my original point which was that nobody was clamoring for him. Also, the one thing Mourinho can do is coach a defense to work as a unit. He has made that Spurs defense, comprising the most overrated keeper in the league, mediocre fullbacks and an old Alderweireld the second best defense in the league behind City. |
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Post by dazjoe on Feb 8, 2021 9:45:42 GMT
I was thinking the same. Who the actual fuck was clamoring for Maguire ?? Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. Which is/was warranted. The abuse was "Ed failed to sign the player the manager asked for". The fact it was Maguire is neither here nor there, no one was clamouring for Maguire, they were pointing out Ed had a job to do and failed to do it. |
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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 9:47:12 GMT
Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. Which is/was warranted. The abuse was "Ed failed to sign the player the manager asked for". The fact it was Maguire is neither here nor there, no one was clamouring for Maguire, they were pointing out Ed had a job to do and failed to do it. Also Jose had asked for him when they wanted 50 million. Not 90. |
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Post by thesheepdog on Feb 8, 2021 9:49:05 GMT
I can't see Ole winning trophies for us. If he does great but I think it's unlikely.
He seems though to have changed the transfer policy around bringing younger players in which I applaud.
However my worry is what players have genuinly improved under him. DDG, Wan Basaka, Harry, Martial, Rashford, James all seemed to have regressed.
OK Shaw Fred and Scott but I think that's more down to competition for places than anything.
Top managers have world class coaches round them , can we look at our coaches and genuinly say that. surely some of the clusterfucks our defence serves up can be improved / irradiated by good coaching
Buck stops with the owners though without them we would still be competing every year as we would solve the issues with money which these scumbags have drained out of us.
Ole is just there cause he's cheap and they hope the fan base won't turn on him and them.
Our only possitive is if we make champions league again they might invest in the squad. But if you look at their track record they only spend big when we miss out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 9:53:56 GMT
Look, we are second in the league right now but IMO, that has more to do with the failings of other teams than the brilliance of United... Ole's signings with one huge exception have not been particularly stellar...as Karma says...he apparently approved the signing of two players who don't get a sniff but he persists with a 'captain' who regularly stinks the place out... Ighalo and Cavani were both shots in the dark...Ighalo had a very brief half decent spell and Cavani is working out well but don't try and tell me that Cavani was in the plans all along... The only reason that we are not mid-table is down to one player - who we almost passed on... Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good...it's wonderful if you can be both... Because when your luck runs out, you had better have a plan B... I love Ole to bits as a player but I don't think he has ever had a plan B... There is not one person on here who claims Ole top be the best manager in the world, but there is evidence that we are heading in the right direction. He has been working under a very strict transfer budget hence the punts on James and the Ighalo loan. The discussion concerning our manager has long lost any logic. I didn't like his hasty permanent appointment, but once he has gotten the job he deserves some backing. I include patience in that backing, particularly as he hasn't been offered that from the owners like the guy across the street has. He is not allowed to fail with 4-5 50m defenders before he gets his Dias right.
I have read the other day about how swift the scouse are at being quick to address their shortcomings. I can only imagine us having no CBs available with our season faltering only to end up signing on deadline day a championship CB and loaning another from the bottom club in the Bundesliga. I'm sure neither were Klopp's first choice. Managers don't always get the players they want, but Ole is getting stick even for the players that do well here which is baffling. "Almost passed on Bruno", "playing him every week", "Cavani is a fluke" and so on. We're fucking second playing the best post-Fergie football and experts who wanted Rashford out or were happy with Dalot as our first-choice RB are quick getting rid of the manager.
Ole was blamed earlier in the season for "not having a plan B" when we hit teams on the counter-attack but couldn't break down compact defenses. We scored 9 last week and battered Everton the other night, so there is something more to our football than a plan A. We all adore Ole the player and appreciate that he isn't the greatest manager in the sport. At least not yet. Some of us think that he has done a very good job so far in having us heading in the right direction, and are patient enough even if he doesn't win the league cup in the process.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 10:05:33 GMT
Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. You are deliberately omitting the very clear fact that the abuse Ed got was for getting Maguire for 90 million whereas Jose asked for him when the going rate was 50 - before the Euros. I'll assume that you forgot about that, otherwise it is supremely disingenuous to bring that bit up. If we got this version of Maguire for 50 million the blow would be far lesser than what it is now, considering that we got fucking fleeced. Also, it proves my original point which was that nobody was clamoring for him. Also, the one thing Mourinho can do is coach a defense to work as a unit. He has made that Spurs defense, comprising the most overrated keeper in the league, mediocre fullbacks and an old Alderweireld the second best defense in the league behind City. Not forgetting that for a minute. The money is irrelevant to my point. Ole didn't pay it. If he's shit then he's shit for 50 million too. Fact is Jose, the serial winner, actually wanted Maguire here, and then played McT at CB while leaving his own signings Bailly and Lindelof on the bench to make a point to the owners. Obviously, the hate for the owners clouded some people's judgment of that egotistical stunt just as it costs Ole for being "convenient" to the owners.
I agree that Mourinho can organise a defense. I also think this has been Ole's major failing this season. Last season (a real one, not this easy season), we had the third best defensive record if I remember correctly. Odd. On the other hand we are top scorers in the league. There's a fine balance between the two records, and we still don't have a deep enough squad to make it work at both ends. Our inexperienced manager knows that just as much as the resident experts here do. Unfortunately for him, he can't open a transfer window thread and get whoever he wants. We probably differ in opinions on how many windows/signings he deserves and what qualifies as progress. This hinges not only on his credentials but also on the money being made available by the owners.
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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 10:08:06 GMT
Look, we are second in the league right now but IMO, that has more to do with the failings of other teams than the brilliance of United... Ole's signings with one huge exception have not been particularly stellar...as Karma says...he apparently approved the signing of two players who don't get a sniff but he persists with a 'captain' who regularly stinks the place out... Ighalo and Cavani were both shots in the dark...Ighalo had a very brief half decent spell and Cavani is working out well but don't try and tell me that Cavani was in the plans all along... The only reason that we are not mid-table is down to one player - who we almost passed on... Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good...it's wonderful if you can be both... Because when your luck runs out, you had better have a plan B... I love Ole to bits as a player but I don't think he has ever had a plan B... There is not one person on here who claims Ole top be the best manager in the world, but there is evidence that we are heading in the right direction. He has been working under a very strict transfer budget hence the punts on James and the Ighalo loan. The discussion concerning our manager has long lost any logic. I didn't like his hasty permanent appointment, but once he has gotten the job he deserves some backing. I include patience in that backing, particularly as he hasn't been offered that from the owners like the guy across the street has. He is not allowed to fail with 4-5 50m defenders before he gets his Dias right. I have reading the other day about how swift the scouse are at being quick to address their shortcomings. I can only imagine us having no CBs available with our season faltering only to end up signing on deadline day a championship CB and loaning another from the bottom club in the Bundesliga. I'm sure neither were Klopp's first choice. Managers don't always get the players they want, but Ole is getting stick even for the players to do well here which is baffling. "Almost passed on Bruno", "playing him every week", "Cavani is a fluke" and so on. We're fucking second playing the best post-Fergie football and experts who wanted Rashford or were happy with Dalot as our first-choice RB are quick getting rid of the manager. Ole was blamed earlier in the season for "not having a plan B" when we hit teams on the counter-attack but couldn't break down compact defenses. We scored 9 last week and battered Everton the other night, so there is something more to our football than a plan A. We all adore Ole the player and appreciate that he isn't the greatest manager in the sport. At least not yet. Some of us think that he has done a very good job so far in having us heading in the right direction, and are patient enough even if he doesn't win the league cup in the process.
Sorry everyone, if my post ends up giving people a seizure or something... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 10:11:10 GMT
Search for the abuse Ed and the owners got here for not granting Jose his wish at the start of his last season here. Which is/was warranted. The abuse was "Ed failed to sign the player the manager asked for". The fact it was Maguire is neither here nor there, no one was clamouring for Maguire, they were pointing out Ed had a job to do and failed to do it. I agree, and shared the criticism.
Still, I find it odd that people wanted to have a 50m turd here. It then follows with a desire for an "elite manager" when Ole is failed by that turd the "elite manager" wanted here 12 months earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 10:44:17 GMT
There is not one person on here who claims Ole top be the best manager in the world, but there is evidence that we are heading in the right direction. He has been working under a very strict transfer budget hence the punts on James and the Ighalo loan. The discussion concerning our manager has long lost any logic. I didn't like his hasty permanent appointment, but once he has gotten the job he deserves some backing. I include patience in that backing, particularly as he hasn't been offered that from the owners like the guy across the street has. He is not allowed to fail with 4-5 50m defenders before he gets his Dias right. I have reading the other day about how swift the scouse are at being quick to address their shortcomings. I can only imagine us having no CBs available with our season faltering only to end up signing on deadline day a championship CB and loaning another from the bottom club in the Bundesliga. I'm sure neither were Klopp's first choice. Managers don't always get the players they want, but Ole is getting stick even for the players to do well here which is baffling. "Almost passed on Bruno", "playing him every week", "Cavani is a fluke" and so on. We're fucking second playing the best post-Fergie football and experts who wanted Rashford or were happy with Dalot as our first-choice RB are quick getting rid of the manager. Ole was blamed earlier in the season for "not having a plan B" when we hit teams on the counter-attack but couldn't break down compact defenses. We scored 9 last week and battered Everton the other night, so there is something more to our football than a plan A. We all adore Ole the player and appreciate that he isn't the greatest manager in the sport. At least not yet. Some of us think that he has done a very good job so far in having us heading in the right direction, and are patient enough even if he doesn't win the league cup in the process.
Sorry everyone, if my post ends up giving people a seizure or something... It's not about taking Ancelotti over him or not. That question comes 18 months late. Ole is currently our manager and we have no reason to sack him in my opinion. I'm really happy that while Ole is doing a good job overseeing a slow squad overhaul he is successful in beating every single manager who's name is mentioned as a potential saviour.
He has to take punts. Every manager does. At the same time he needs to get the best out of what he already has. Shaw and Fred a case in point.
We'll probably continue to disagree. I was not joking at all. I think we played some superb football. People suggesting that Bruno "bails him out" should be decent enough to say that against Everton Ole was let down by his defenders.
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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 10:58:05 GMT
Yes but there are some who say they wouldn't take Ancelotti over him. Or something of that nature..If he is working on a strict budget, he cannot be taking punts on players. Especially 90 million quid worth of punts.This I agree with.He still doesn't, he still can't.This has to be a joke right? Because we drew 3-3. Will you be asking for a DVD at the end of the season if we come 2nd or 3rd? Because that's essentially what it is when you say we battered Everton, but we have nothing to show for it.
Sorry everyone, if my post ends up giving people a seizure or something... It's not about taking Ancelotti over him or not. That question comes 18 months late. Ole is currently our manager and we have no reason to sack him in my opinion. I'm really happy that while Ole is doing a good job overseeing a slow squad overhaul he is successful in beating every single manager who's name is mentioned as a potential saviour. He has to take punts. Every manager does. At the same time he needs to get the best out of what he already has. Shaw and Fred a case in point. We'll probably continue to disagree. I was not joking at all. I think we played some superb football. People suggesting that Bruno "bails him out" should be decent enough to say that against Everton Ole was let down by his defenders.
He's been let down by them several times yet he picks them repeatedly. So there's nobody left to blame but him unfortunately. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 11:23:40 GMT
It's not about taking Ancelotti over him or not. That question comes 18 months late. Ole is currently our manager and we have no reason to sack him in my opinion. I'm really happy that while Ole is doing a good job overseeing a slow squad overhaul he is successful in beating every single manager who's name is mentioned as a potential saviour. He has to take punts. Every manager does. At the same time he needs to get the best out of what he already has. Shaw and Fred a case in point. We'll probably continue to disagree. I was not joking at all. I think we played some superb football. People suggesting that Bruno "bails him out" should be decent enough to say that against Everton Ole was let down by his defenders.
He's been let down by them several times yet he picks them repeatedly. So there's nobody left to blame but him unfortunately. He is responsible as a manager. He has Maguire, Lindelof and the rarely available Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones to choose from. He just got rid of Smalling and Rojo. Not an inspiring set, and I'm absolutely sure he'd have wished to address this weakness earlier if he had the funds available. |
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