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Post by redcase on Feb 8, 2021 11:29:11 GMT
He's been let down by them several times yet he picks them repeatedly. So there's nobody left to blame but him unfortunately. He is responsible as a manager. He has Maguire, Lindelof and the rarely available Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones to choose from. He just got rid of Smalling and Rojo. Not an inspiring set, and I'm absolutely sure he'd have wished to address this weakness earlier if he had the funds available. It's his fault for signing Maguire for that outrageous valuation. Sure the club wouldn't spunk that money if he wasn't approved. It's also his fault for removing Tuanzebe from the starting lineup almost entirely even though the boy is better than Lindelof who is probably the worst defender I have seen in a United shirt and has absolutely zero redeeming qualities. Getting rid of Smalling in hindsight was stupid too, although I won't say that we were unhappy with that. In hindsight, he would have been our best defender at the moment. Although if he knows Bailly is rarely fit, selling Smalling is not a good look for him is it. Again this point is mostly in hindsight. He has to stop picking Lindelof and as long as he does I will blame him. Play Tuanzebe week in week out. |
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Post by kstandhand on Feb 8, 2021 11:30:48 GMT
Yes but there are some who say they wouldn't take Ancelotti over him. Or something of that nature..If he is working on a strict budget, he cannot be taking punts on players. Especially 90 million quid worth of punts.This I agree with.He still doesn't, he still can't.This has to be a joke right? Because we drew 3-3. Will you be asking for a DVD at the end of the season if we come 2nd or 3rd? Because that's essentially what it is when you say we battered Everton, but we have nothing to show for it.
Sorry everyone, if my post ends up giving people a seizure or something... It's not about taking Ancelotti over him or not. That question comes 18 months late. Ole is currently our manager and we have no reason to sack him in my opinion. I'm really happy that while Ole is doing a good job overseeing a slow squad overhaul he is successful in beating every single manager who's name is mentioned as a potential saviour. He has to take punts. Every manager does. At the same time he needs to get the best out of what he already has. Shaw and Fred a case in point. We'll probably continue to disagree. I was not joking at all. I think we played some superb football. People suggesting that Bruno "bails him out" should be decent enough to say that against Everton Ole was let down by his defenders.
In over two years he has been unable to get any real consistency from the team or impose a style of player,that suits the players he has. He has spent cira £160mill on the defence in that time & despite what he says, we are not defending well,we are defensively worse than when he came in. We might be 2nd & closer from a points perspective to the top,than when he came came in but as team we are still miles off the what is needed to be serious title challengers,how many more years does he think he needs is question I'd love to hear him answer honestly??? |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 8, 2021 12:20:15 GMT
I was thinking the same. Who the actual fuck was clamoring for Maguire ?? I can remember people kicking off that Jose hadn't been properly backed by us not signing a centre back when he obviously wanted one. Cannot remember anyone thinking that CB should have been Maguire except in cases of, 'I don't want him but if the manager did we should have signed him', types. |
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Post by kstandhand on Feb 8, 2021 12:38:35 GMT
I was thinking the same. Who the actual fuck was clamoring for Maguire ?? I can remember people kicking off that Jose hadn't been properly backed by us not signing a centre back when he obviously wanted one. Cannot remember anyone thinking that CB should have been Maguire except in cases of, 'I don't want him but if the manager did we should have signed him.', types. Maguire wasn't this bad a LCFC,I'd take the capt arm band off him,might take the pressure off him a bit. |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 8, 2021 12:43:34 GMT
Which is/was warranted. The abuse was "Ed failed to sign the player the manager asked for". The fact it was Maguire is neither here nor there, no one was clamouring for Maguire, they were pointing out Ed had a job to do and failed to do it. I agree, and shared the criticism. Still, I find it odd that people wanted to have a 50m turd here. It then follows with a desire for an "elite manager" when Ole is failed by that turd the "elite manager" wanted here 12 months earlier.  Keep typing "elite manager" as if it's a myth. Fergie signed Billy Prunier for fucks sake. If Maguire is shit (he is) it doesn't say anything positive about Ole that he signed him. If the argument is: i. Mourinho is an elite manager but wanted to sign a shit player (never actually confirmed) so we should never hire an elite manager again or replace a failed experiment - At least this version admits Ole isn't elite I suppose. ii. Mourinho also wanted to sign the shit player that Ole signed - Ole is still an idiot for signing a shit player. iii. People were complaining we didn't sign Maguire for Jose (they weren't) - Ole is still an idiot for signing a shit player. iv. Ole needs properly backed - What is spending a world record fee for a defender on a shit player? v. Ole would probably like to replace Maguire but isn't being backed - Why waste the money signing the shit player in the first place? |
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Post by Bestie on Feb 8, 2021 12:45:03 GMT
I can remember people kicking off that Jose hadn't been properly backed by us not signing a centre back when he obviously wanted one. Cannot remember anyone thinking that CB should have been Maguire except in cases of, 'I don't want him but if the manager did we should have signed him', types. Maguire wasn't this bad a LCFC,I'd take the capt arm band off him,might take the pressure off him a bit. Yes he was. He just looked better because Evans made him look good - direct quote from a Leicester supporting mate - and because Leicester's tactics suited a clogger who can head the ball away from his own box in any direction. |
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Post by Paul on Feb 8, 2021 12:51:08 GMT
I'll be honest I do like Maguire, think he gets a lot more shit than he actually deserves and isn't as bad as some make him out to be but I can completely understand some of the criticism he gets. For me his problem isn't his actual defending, its his positioning, the Everton equaliser being a prime example of this. Its happened a few times with him.
I genuinely think putting a CB next to him with pace would benefit him a lot. Really dont like this zonal marking either, think that adds to the problems. Also take the armband off him, he isnt a captain.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 13:08:05 GMT
He is responsible as a manager. He has Maguire, Lindelof and the rarely available Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones to choose from. He just got rid of Smalling and Rojo. Not an inspiring set, and I'm absolutely sure he'd have wished to address this weakness earlier if he had the funds available. It's his fault for signing Maguire for that outrageous valuation. Sure the club wouldn't spunk that money if he wasn't approved. It's also his fault for removing Tuanzebe from the starting lineup almost entirely even though the boy is better than Lindelof who is probably the worst defender I have seen in a United shirt and has absolutely zero redeeming qualities. Getting rid of Smalling in hindsight was stupid too, although I won't say that we were unhappy with that. In hindsight, he would have been our best defender at the moment. Although if he knows Bailly is rarely fit, selling Smalling is not a good look for him is it. Again this point is mostly in hindsight. He has to stop picking Lindelof and as long as he does I will blame him. Play Tuanzebe week in week out. Tuanzebe has had a couple of stinkers himself. I don't like the idea of Lindelof in the side, but pretending that we'd be better off in the league if Tuanzebe was first choice is just that based on current evidence. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 8, 2021 13:15:42 GMT
I think the consensus on here was that Maguire was a decent CB who had done well at the World Cup for England. When Jose has him on the list with Toby A and one other, most of us were happy enough as the one thing Jose had always shown up to that point was his ability to spot a CB. We then had the absolutely disgraceful scenes when Woodward and his cronies told Jose, at that point still one of the top managers in the game, that they wouldn’t pay the 50 mill (I think, might have been 60) and he would have to make do.
For a lot of us, it wasn’t the player that was the issue then, it was the fact that these accountants decided they knew better than a trophy magnet manager. That was pretty much the end of Jose who went scorched earth soon after. He was probably right to in fairness. Inevitably we then paid around 25% more on the player the following summer. Because Woodward.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 13:16:53 GMT
It's not about taking Ancelotti over him or not. That question comes 18 months late. Ole is currently our manager and we have no reason to sack him in my opinion. I'm really happy that while Ole is doing a good job overseeing a slow squad overhaul he is successful in beating every single manager who's name is mentioned as a potential saviour. He has to take punts. Every manager does. At the same time he needs to get the best out of what he already has. Shaw and Fred a case in point. We'll probably continue to disagree. I was not joking at all. I think we played some superb football. People suggesting that Bruno "bails him out" should be decent enough to say that against Everton Ole was let down by his defenders.
In over two years he has been unable to get any real consistency from the team or impose a style of player,that suits the players he has. He has spent cira £160mill on the defence in that time & despite what he says, we are not defending well,we are defensively worse than when he came in. We might be 2nd & closer from a points perspective to the top,than when he came came in but as team we are still miles off the what is needed to be serious title challengers,how many more years does he think he needs is question I'd love to hear him answer honestly??? Yes, we are second. Five points clear of last season's champions and five below a state-sponsored club at the top. That means we are more consistent than any other club in the division bar that plastic mutation of a football club. We may collapse between now and the end of the season, which I'm sure many would enjoy, but it's total madness to suggest sacking the manager under the current circumstances. And then, some people here wanted us to lose league games so the manager would get the sack...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 13:18:49 GMT
I can remember people kicking off that Jose hadn't been properly backed by us not signing a centre back when he obviously wanted one. Cannot remember anyone thinking that CB should have been Maguire except in cases of, 'I don't want him but if the manager did we should have signed him.', types. Maguire wasn't this bad a LCFC,I'd take the capt arm band off him,might take the pressure off him a bit. I'm sure he'd be even better if he had a decent partner playing alongside him. Rotating two perma-crocks and (an injured) Lindelof is hardly helpful. |
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Post by Stew on Feb 8, 2021 13:21:26 GMT
It's his fault for signing Maguire for that outrageous valuation. Sure the club wouldn't spunk that money if he wasn't approved. It's also his fault for removing Tuanzebe from the starting lineup almost entirely even though the boy is better than Lindelof who is probably the worst defender I have seen in a United shirt and has absolutely zero redeeming qualities. Getting rid of Smalling in hindsight was stupid too, although I won't say that we were unhappy with that. In hindsight, he would have been our best defender at the moment. Although if he knows Bailly is rarely fit, selling Smalling is not a good look for him is it. Again this point is mostly in hindsight. He has to stop picking Lindelof and as long as he does I will blame him. Play Tuanzebe week in week out. Tuanzebe has had a couple of stinkers himself. I don't like the idea of Lindelof in the side, but pretending that we'd be better off in the league if Tuanzebe was first choice is just that based on current evidence. Or perhaps some posters watch the reserves or followed him at Villa. And he had one stinker, not a couple. Axel had a blinder against PSG and was immediately relegated to the bench and that useless clown Lindelof was first choice. Axel has shown serious talent at every stage in his career. He could very easily have grown in confidence getting a run in the side, but no, Ole has to go back to his favourite. Which is exactly the same thing as happened to Bailly, who won us all 3 points with a fantastic block against Villa. Which counted for nothing as Vic was straight back in and stinking the place out. CBs improve by playing. We don’t know what Alex can be. We know exactly whatLindelof is. Fucking useless and a wimp to boot. Go back and watch the Sevilla winner against us. It should have been the end of him, absolutely scandalous defending. Instead he starts every game. No wonder our defence is useless. Not Ole’s fault though. Never Ole’s fault. |
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Post by Paul on Feb 8, 2021 13:26:08 GMT
To be honest given the amount of shit the lad has had lately off the pitch especially the last two games I think its safe to say he deserves a bit of slack. Still a young lad so can't imagine it helping him at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 13:27:31 GMT
I think the consensus on here was that Maguire was a decent CB who had done well at the World Cup for England. When Jose has him on the list with Toby A and one other, most of us were happy enough as the one thing Jose had always shown up to that point was his ability to spot a CB. We then had the absolutely disgraceful scenes when Woodward and his cronies told Jose, at that point still one of the top managers in the game, that they wouldn’t pay the 50 mill (I think, might have been 60) and he would have to make do. For a lot of us, it wasn’t the player that was the issue then, it was the fact that these accountants decided they knew better than a trophy magnet manager. That was pretty much the end of Jose who went scorched earth soon after. He was probably right to in fairness. Inevitably we then paid around 25% more on the player the following summer. Because Woodward. That's a fair review. I think it was 60m when Jose had him on his list. My point was that even an experienced, successful manager had Maguire on his list. We don't know if he was Ole's first choice either, but Maguire was probably available unlike others at the time. Paying 80 million for him is totally on ED. How many times have we heard on here that money we coup in the transfer market ends up in the Glazers' pockets? Why would anyone argue that had we not paid 80m for Maguire we could buy two other players for the same price? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2021 13:36:50 GMT
Tuanzebe has had a couple of stinkers himself. I don't like the idea of Lindelof in the side, but pretending that we'd be better off in the league if Tuanzebe was first choice is just that based on current evidence. Or perhaps some posters watch the reserves or followed him at Villa. And he had one stinker, not a couple. Axel had a blinder against PSG and was immediately relegated to the bench and that useless clown Lindelof was first choice. Axel has shown serious talent at every stage in his career. He could very easily have grown in confidence getting a run in the side, but no, Ole has to go back to his favourite. Which is exactly the same thing as happened to Bailly, who won us all 3 points with a fantastic block against Villa. Which counted for nothing as Vic was straight back in and stinking the place out. CBs improve by playing. We don’t know what Alex can be. We know exactly whatLindelof is. Fucking useless and a wimp to boot. Go back and watch the Sevilla winner against us. It should have been the end of him, absolutely scandalous defending. Instead he starts every game. No wonder our defence is useless. Not Ole’s fault though. Never Ole’s fault. It's a tricky one. I think young CBs should be introduced carefully to the side, particularly with the shaky defense we have to begin with. Sticking with Lindelof is definitely on Ole. There's no escaping that. But Bailly's very good couple of games are also overblown. I'm a huge Bailly fan, but I'm afraid his time is up. Brainfarts aside, he can't stay fit for 3 weeks running. We need a strong experienced CB to partner Maguire, while Tuanzebe makes progress, injury-record permitting. I'm sure Ole knows that. Do you honestly believe he wouldn't appreciate signing one?
Having said that, I wonder what would be the reaction by the Oleout movement if we played Tuanzebe regularly and were in the exact same position. My guess is that he'd be blamed for throwing a league title for playing an inexperienced lad at the back.
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Keep typing "elite manager" as if it's a myth. Fergie signed Billy Prunier for fucks sake.
