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Post by alwaysUnited on Oct 24, 2022 6:53:44 GMT
Also people will do well to remember how Fergie handled the likes of Keane , Becks and RVN when they challenged him. (Beckham and RVN were in their prime)
We moan about player power and dressing room culture but the moment a manager decides to put their foot down against their favorite player they call for his head.
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Post by Stretty on Oct 24, 2022 7:20:17 GMT
Completely support ETH in this whole Ronaldo incident , Refusing to come on when the manager calls and then leaving the stadium when your team is playing well is just bad behavior. No excuses there. I can understand Bestie's and Karma's points if he is starting every game and banging in every half chance we create , but he is not. He spent most of the pre season trying to force his way out of the club , he pulled the same stunt in the preseason game against Rayo , Ronaldo cant keep doing this. His age is also a factor here , fans and the manager will have much less patience for a player approaching 38 than someone in their early 20s. That’s more or less where I am with this whole saga. I think we have discussed this club legend status(ronaldo wise) before and i do t think it’s a binary club legend or not but probably a few shades or levels of club legend. for me the top level of club legend are those that seem to have Manchester Utd in their blood. charlton,best,macari,crerand,law,robson,cantona,giggs,Neville,butt,scholes,whiteside(even players like Wes brown and others I would put here) Just underneath are top players that have had good careers at utd but don’t particularly live and breath Utd. ronaldo,Rooney,RVN,Keane,stam,schmeichel,vidic,(reo and evra even though they seem to live and breath the club now). the above examples are just off the top of my head and there will be lots of players to add to each list but going back to Ronaldo he said back in 2004-2005 that his dream was to play for Madrid(I think he and all his family support that club). one last note on him is that he did use us as leverage to get an improved contract at Madrid around 2012-2014 even though he had no intentions of returning at that time. Club legend yes but not a Best,robson or cantona legend in my eyes.
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Post by Stretty on Oct 24, 2022 7:26:27 GMT
Also people will do well to remember how Fergie handled the likes of Keane , Becks and RVN when they challenged him. (Beckham and RVN were in their prime) We moan about player power and dressing room culture but the moment a manager decides to put their foot down against their favorite player they call for his head. 100% The manger has to be seen to be in charge and he was spot on booting him out the squad. I don’t remember anyone slagging Fergie off when he did the same with beckham(I remember him sat in the stands at elland road).
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Post by Stretty on Oct 24, 2022 7:46:53 GMT
Also people will do well to remember how Fergie handled the likes of Keane , Becks and RVN when they challenged him. (Beckham and RVN were in their prime) We moan about player power and dressing room culture but the moment a manager decides to put their foot down against their favorite player they call for his head. Another point I forgot to add was when Fergie shipped out Whiteside and McGrath in the 1980s who at the time where 2 of our best players and most fans(me included)where fucking fuming but it was later reported that they where an integral part of the drinking culture that was a deep routed in the squad. Our dressing room need a cultural reset back then and it needed on this season. Now I am enjoying discussing our improved football and fighting spirit rather than players doing silly dances on tik tok.
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Post by viking22 on Oct 24, 2022 9:58:37 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table.
He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment.
And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad.
Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort.
Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times.
Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high"
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Post by alwaysUnited on Oct 24, 2022 10:39:29 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high"That's basically what ETH told him. 12th October www.goal.com/en-in/news/no-one-can-miss-pre-season-ronaldo-fitness-questioned-by-ten-hag-as-he-reveals-why-he-wasn-t-playing-for-man-utd/blt71c4deec7a0bf0edSpeaking ahead of their Europa League clash against Onomia, Ten Hag said: "He is getting in better shape now and I am happy with that, so he can contribute more to the squad and I'm sure he will do, it's proven once again no one can miss pre-season." 22nd October www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2022-2023/im-counting-on-him-erik-ten-hag-insists-cristiano-ronaldo-won-t-leave-manchester-united-in-january-t_sto9196811/story.shtmlBut when the player is throwing out his toys so publicly ETH is left with no choice but to take action like this
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Post by Bestie on Oct 24, 2022 10:47:29 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high" Most comprehensive, accurate and sensible post about the Ronaldo circumstances I have read on here for a while.
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Post by harvindhillon on Oct 24, 2022 12:08:43 GMT
He won every trophy he could at Real yet I didnt see him forcing a move ? Only when his relationship with the board broke down did he force it but even by then he was on a decline. He left United just before the top of his game, he could have done it at United but choose not to.. So much for a legend. Completely with you on the Glazers and Fergie with the fee but again if Ronaldo wasnt pushing for a move we would have only go on and won a few more UCL trophies maybe instead of watching Real do the same. Regardless of what you think about his role now, it’s silly to go back and argue the history. Before ballon d’ors, mega sponsor deals and Bugattis he wanted to play for Madrid, that was a well known fact of when not if. He came here won it all in some style so let’s not shit on the past. I’m sure you wouldn’t be caught dead saying “so much for a legend” prior to his return. I mentioned it many times before on this forum, my view is he is a brilliant player and legend of the game. My opinion is that he is not really in the United legend bracket. He started out here and as soon as it was viable to follow his dream he moved. His prime years weren't with United, nor he is in his prime now during his second coming. So how is he in the same bracket as the likes Cantona, Bruce, Scholes, Best, Vidic, Rio, Irwin, Rooney, Giggs, Charlton etc.. sure, some of them were terrible people off the pitch, but they played their prime years at United, for me that's the single most important criteria to being a legend of the club.
Pique won it all at Barcelona, if he comes back to United now, you lot will call him a legend too yea? All this selective nonsense is insane.
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Post by harvindhillon on Oct 24, 2022 12:12:59 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high" The problem is mate, how sure are you Erik didnt have that chat with him?
Surely his agent has been looking for a move since the window started, and no one has come in since. Only Chelsea were the real option but Tuchel didnt want him. You are in ETH's or Ronaldo's inner circle knowing all this stuff?
What we all know is what we can see happening...
1. He missed pre-season 2. Not scoring when he starts 3. Doesnt fit into ETH's high press quick attacking style 4. Unhappy being sat on the bench 5. Left before games were over twice
Those are all facts everyone can see, what you are talking about is all postulation based on what you think happened.
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Post by harvindhillon on Oct 24, 2022 12:13:19 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high" Most comprehensive, accurate and sensible post about the Ronaldo circumstances I have read on here for a while. Right.... Kay
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Post by harvindhillon on Oct 24, 2022 12:14:54 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high"That's basically what ETH told him. 12th October www.goal.com/en-in/news/no-one-can-miss-pre-season-ronaldo-fitness-questioned-by-ten-hag-as-he-reveals-why-he-wasn-t-playing-for-man-utd/blt71c4deec7a0bf0edSpeaking ahead of their Europa League clash against Onomia, Ten Hag said: "He is getting in better shape now and I am happy with that, so he can contribute more to the squad and I'm sure he will do, it's proven once again no one can miss pre-season." 22nd October www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2022-2023/im-counting-on-him-erik-ten-hag-insists-cristiano-ronaldo-won-t-leave-manchester-united-in-january-t_sto9196811/story.shtmlBut when the player is throwing out his toys so publicly ETH is left with no choice but to take action like this These guys dont see facts, just hearsay and come up with the weirdness defence for Ronaldo FC
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Post by redcase on Oct 24, 2022 12:18:24 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high" Kindly elaborate with evidence which clubs came calling for Ronaldo, and how we priced them out. If ten Hag thinks he belongs on the bench - he belongs on the bench. He is not obligated to hand out starts based on what Ronaldo did at Real Madrid or what he did last year - a year where this club finished 6th.
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Post by redcase on Oct 24, 2022 12:19:27 GMT
These guys dont see facts, just hearsay and come up with the weirdness defence for Ronaldo FC I'm still waiting to see these amazing offers which came in for Ronaldo which we refused.
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Post by Paul on Oct 24, 2022 12:27:45 GMT
These guys dont see facts, just hearsay and come up with the weirdness defence for Ronaldo FC I'm still waiting to see these amazing offers which came in for Ronaldo which we refused. Good luck waiting for that 😏
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Post by Bestie on Oct 24, 2022 14:30:53 GMT
What people forget is that last season Ronaldo was one of the few players who didn't down tools and without his goals we'd have got knocked out of the Champions League group stages, failed to qualify for the Europa League and finished mid-table. He is reacting badly to the bit part role he has been given by Ten Hag this season and crossed the line against Tottenham. But pricing him out of a move this summer and then making him warm the bench most of this season is pretty crappy treatment. And I don't think anyone is criticizing Erik for the punishment he has doled out to Ronaldo for his dissent. It is more the man management leading up to the incident. Ronaldo is obviously not in his long term plans and missing pre-season and trying to engineer all summer wouldn't have pleased Erik. But once the transfer window closed he could have done a lot more to get Ronaldo back onboard and treat him with the respect he deserved and made him feel like an important part of the squad. Erik is well within his rights to decide he wants nothing more to do with Ronaldo and freeze him out and get him out the door in January. But when we are struggling to score goals letting go of someone who has scored 700 club goals in their career and 24 goals last season seems unwise and should be a final resort. Fergie fell out with players but he was also very good with unsettled and unhappy players and understood some players needed an arm around them at times. Erik needs to be straight with Ronaldo and say "I cannot guarantee you a first team place but I want to play you more. I can only do that when you start scoring goals. It hasn't been easy because you didn't have a pre-season and Rashford has been playing well. But if you are patient and train well and behave professionally then the World Cup is a great opportunity for you to get match fit and start scoring and once you do that I can give you a lot more game time in the second half of the season and together we can win trophies and you can leave in the summer on a high" Kindly elaborate with evidence which clubs came calling for Ronaldo, and how we priced them out. If ten Hag thinks he belongs on the bench - he belongs on the bench. He is not obligated to hand out starts based on what Ronaldo did at Real Madrid or what he did last year - a year where this club finished 6th. So. Roy Keane. Outright liar, yes? Or no?
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